Posted November 13, 20159 yr So, although not all agree, I think there is more or less a general acceptance of third party tires for Technic builders. Again, not universal, but perhaps a majority of people are okay with it. We regularly, if not a majority of the time, see large crawlers, trucks, etc, on this forum with third party tires. Why the acceptance? And given whatever rationale, can we apply this rational to others parts as well? For me... so much cranes lately (I just got done voting) has given me to think about the Lego metal hook. I mean, technically, I guess its Lego, but literally.... hmmm difficult argument here. If the viability of the hook being Lego is debatable in the first place, why not use other, third party hooks that can be so much better. The Lego hook is what like 20-30 bucks? 30 in the US where I am (more or less). If it is just metal, why not perhaps use like a third party block hook? So much cooler, and just like the Lego hook, all metal. I get that these can be built out of Lego, I have done several myself, but given the popularity of the metal hooks, personally I would prefer just to use third party hooks. Here is one example: Hook blocks such as these can be purchased for about the same price as the Lego metal hook, but IMO are much much better. Smaller hooks are also available. What do others think?
November 13, 20159 yr The hook looks good ! For the non-Lego aspect, it's really a matter of choice. Some are purist, some use custom parts, some modify parts or print decals. The important is having fun !
November 13, 20159 yr I guess it is ok to substitute since the metal hook part is out of production. Plus it is getting stupid expensive.
November 13, 20159 yr Cranes Etc. has links to various shops selling model cranes and they also review model crane accessories 1/50 is popular scale for model cranes and machinery.
November 14, 20159 yr I have no problem with using third party or modified Lego parts. With the move toward more realistic models I think this is gong to become more common.
November 14, 20159 yr In reply to the use of third party hooks this is what I think: To build a well working hook block out of pure LEGO® we need pulleys/wheels that spin freely on an Technic Axle. Basically a hook block consist of a hook attached to a block that holds free spinning wheels...agree? Therein lies the exact problem, there are no suitable free spinning wheels. These would be great, but not with the axle hole... Lining up 4, 5, 6 or even more would do the trick. These free spinning wheels are used to increase strength...that is the trick... I have no problem with using third party or modified Lego parts. With the move toward more realistic models I think this is gong to become more common. Exactly, that is my point of view as well... And described above it is up to each individual to do what suites them best! Edited November 14, 20159 yr by 2LegoOrNot2Lego...
November 14, 20159 yr To build a well working hook block out of pure LEGO® we need pulleys/wheels that spin freely on an Technic Axle. Basically a hook block consist of a hook attached to a block that holds free spinning wheels...agree? Therein lies the exact problem, there are no suitable free spinning wheels. These would be great, but not with the axle hole... Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seems to me that Lego offers plenty of free-spinning wheels:
November 14, 20159 yr Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seems to me that Lego offers plenty of free-spinning wheels: Sorry, I should have been more specific Yes you are right but all are not half a stud in width That is what I should have mentioned, because that is what I ment... This allows to have 6 wheels within 3 studs of width or 4 in 2 studs... This makes more sense? Hope so... :laugh:
November 14, 20159 yr Sorry, I should have been more specific Yes you are right but all are not half a stud in width That is what I should have mentioned, because that is what I ment... This allows to have 6 wheels within 3 studs of width or 4 in 2 studs... This makes more sense? Hope so... :laugh: Ah, so what you're saying is that it's all right to go a 3rd party solution because the LEGO solution is too big? But where do you stop? For pretty much any mechanism you can imagine, a brickbuilt version will be larger, or less efficient, or less robust than a 3rd party solution.
November 14, 20159 yr Author do you have a link to this hook? It looks like @dr_spock beat me to it. Sorry for the slow response. Essentially, any diecast metal shop (if they sell large items, such as cranes) will have a variety of hook blocks. I just picked up the Liebherr 11200 LTM from a store and got a 60 ton regular hook (not hook block), a 150 ton hook block, and a 350 ton. They are really really cool. I did a review of the model, check out my youtube page if interested; here is probably not the best place to post it. Ah, so what you're saying is that it's all right to go a 3rd party solution because the LEGO solution is too big? But where do you stop? For pretty much any mechanism you can imagine, a brickbuilt version will be larger, or less efficient, or less robust than a 3rd party solution. You are right..... but that was not the point I was trying to make. "But where do you stop? For pretty much any mechanism you can imagine, a brickbuilt version will be larger, or less efficient, or less robust than a 3rd party solution" -- That would defeat the whole purpose of Lego. What I am saying, (not the response you were responding to but as the OP of this thread) is that even the LEGO version is not brick-built. It is metal. One piece, not plastic.....so technically, perhaps sold as Lego but not Lego material. I wonder if they even do the mold? I wonder if they contract out for the piece. Anyways..... I digress.... the Lego version is metal so why not just buy another metal one that is much better, for pretty much the same cost. I think that is the reason that perhaps we can draw a line between Lego and third-party pieces and not get into the whole "but where do you stop" business......
November 14, 20159 yr In reply to the use of third party hooks this is what I think: To build a well working hook block out of pure LEGO® we need pulleys/wheels that spin freely on an Technic Axle. Basically a hook block consist of a hook attached to a block that holds free spinning wheels...agree? Therein lies the exact problem, there are no suitable free spinning wheels. These would be great, but not with the axle hole... Lining up 4, 5, 6 or even more would do the trick. These free spinning wheels are used to increase strength...that is the trick... Someone building the greatest ultimate Batmobile MOC found a solution by drilling out the axle hole in wheel hubs into a round hole. I find Technic built plastic hook block can sometimes be too light when you have too many reeves. It would need some weight or load attacted to the hook to overcome friction to lower it.
November 14, 20159 yr nerdsforprez, how much did you pay for LTM 11200 ? Max... Edited November 14, 20159 yr by MaxSupercars
November 14, 20159 yr He alluded to the price in his YouTube video review of the crane. Edited November 14, 20159 yr by dr_spock
November 14, 20159 yr I had to delete the invalid chars at the end of your link but it worked... OK... so 500$ for the crane and additional 500$ for luffing jib etc... hmm... Max... Edited November 14, 20159 yr by MaxSupercars
November 14, 20159 yr While I tend to agree with the purists, it is an unavoidable fact that many third party companies (and startups) use lego as building blocks that attach to their own components. There is a lego compatible box for the RaspberryPi, there a lego compatible vehicle called Phiro, ... The list is only growing. I think with time, Lego will slowly become not self-contained, but be integrated in many more 'toys' out there, and become a universal set of building blocks, use and abuse (and enjoy) at will.
November 14, 20159 yr Personally, I think that 1:50 scale crane parts are far too small for most Lego creations. Plus, with Lego hooks, I have found out the hard way that most hooks can not actually have more than 3 falls of winch line without there being issues with lack of weight on the hook not providing enough tension.
November 14, 20159 yr DrJB, well I'm more of purist too, but like 3rd party items that improve LEGO - like tyres, Hi-technic sensors, pneumatic tubes, train tracks etc. I believe these are used to overcome one or another LEGO limitation or improve aesthetics, without actual part modifications. And then there is stuff that is improved by LEGO, like the Phiro, you mentioned which are developed to be compatible to LEGO and listing it as advantage. You can nail liftarm to a wall, but does it make wall more exciting in terms of LEGO? I think no. Don't think such items are taken seriously by fan community. Edited November 14, 20159 yr by zux
November 14, 20159 yr Don't think such items are taken seriously by fan community. Not to digress, but I'm in full agreement. What surprised me about Phiro, is that they've now reached their target and fully funded ... This only says (to me) that many people out there (the project backers) may NOT know about EV3/mindstorms/etc.
November 14, 20159 yr Sorry, I should have been more specific Yes you are right but all are not half a stud in width That is what I should have mentioned, because that is what I ment... This allows to have 6 wheels within 3 studs of width or 4 in 2 studs... This makes more sense? Hope so... :laugh: I see! Still, I suspect the string could easily slip off a half-stud pulley. It would be interesting to see some pulley block systems using these wider pulleys...
November 14, 20159 yr I see! Still, I suspect the string could easily slip off a half-stud pulley. It would be interesting to see some pulley block systems using these wider pulleys... You can try to fit an axle across the pulleys to keep the string from falling out like this guy did. Picture 7642 by dr_spock_888, on Flickr
November 15, 20159 yr What I am saying, (not the response you were responding to but as the OP of this thread) is that even the LEGO version is not brick-built. It is metal. One piece, not plastic.....so technically, perhaps sold as Lego but not Lego material. I wonder if they even do the mold? I wonder if they contract out for the piece. Anyways..... I digress.... the Lego version is metal so why not just buy another metal one that is much better, for pretty much the same cost. I think that is the reason that perhaps we can draw a line between Lego and third-party pieces and not get into the whole "but where do you stop" business...... Ah, so what you're saying, is that because it's metal and not plastic, then it's all right to go 3rd party. So 3rd party pneumatics/linear actuators are OK? The pistons in those products are made of metal. As are many of the components in the various motors. Again, where do you stop?
November 15, 20159 yr I cheated and drilled out the axle hole in the pulley. I know you can get 3d printed ones from effermans shape way shop, but at £1.84 each was to much when my crane uses nearly 40 of them! I really need ones with a deeper groove so the string doesn't jump out all the time. Here's a link to shapeways http://www.shapeways.com/product/2LCEBFCDA/pulleywheel-without-crosshole?li=user-profile&optionId=19923231 and the reeving I have to do on the rear of my crane
November 15, 20159 yr I cheated and drilled out the axle hole in the pulley. I know you can get 3d printed ones from effermans shape way shop, but at £1.84 each was to much when my crane uses nearly 40 of them! I really need ones with a deeper groove so the string doesn't jump out all the time. Here's a link to shapeways http://www.shapeways...tionId=19923231 and the reeving I have to do on the rear of my crane https://www.flickr.c...05/16307460041/ Your local public library may offer free or inexpensive 3D printing. I have used a my local library to print a LEGO compatible holder for a SG90 servo motor. There are plenty of free STL designs for download and software to design your own stuff.
November 15, 20159 yr Someone building the greatest ultimate Batmobile MOC found a solution by drilling out the axle hole in wheel hubs into a round hole. I find Technic built plastic hook block can sometimes be too light when you have too many reeves. It would need some weight or load attacted to the hook to overcome friction to lower it. I cheated and drilled out the axle hole in the pulley. I am not sure I would do so... Drilling holes... Agree on the weight issue, you are right about that! What I am saying, (not the response you were responding to but as the OP of this thread)... Point taken I did not intend to change the subject/topic or what ever feel this topic should have... Nice to see how we all think different about what is LEGO and what not, what is third party and what not... :laugh:
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