[TC9] Technic A Plus B Model Contest - Information Topic

[zweihander]

No, I misspoke . This is because I started a moc on a subject but someone else too. So do I still continue on the same subject ?

There is no such rule, and never has been in any contest before as far as I know. That would create a lot of issues. People could start WIP topics without any content just to reserve the idea, only to abandon it for any reason, preventing others from using the same idea unfairly.

[Technivor]

Ok thanks!

[Seasider]

While you are technically right about fitting the box, let's measure the model in it's normal position.

Depends how you define normal ?

If a buggy has a chassis that is pitched due to its suspension you'd measure it on its wheels with the body angled.

If I have an aircraft with a non-retractable undercarriage which also puts the fuselage into significant pitch when on the ground how is this different ?

Just thinking with both fixed landing gear and tailplane I could really use it to be measured when on its wheels in a "displayed" condition

[Epic Technic]

Wow, I really need to spell it out

Obviously hiding parts is hard to check, and in a certain way it's not a bad thing when it comes to using some extra pins or liftarms etc. But hiding a bucket or extra wheels is just plain stupid. That's not what this contest is about and you shouldn't even be asking it.

Like I stated in the rules; make it as official as possible. TLG designers aren't hiding buckets to facilitate a B-model. Maybe an extra gear (arctic truck), but that's about it.

OK, I may have asked for too much, but I think your comment is too harsh. First of all, hiding pieces my seem stupid to you but to me, it is legitimate question, Honestly, I ask these questions, not to be criticized, nor to be offended, but because I would like to understand EXACTLY what I CAN and CANNOT do, so I can do the best of my abilities. If you don't find my reasoning okay, well then I won't compete and I'll be out of your hair.

[Appie]

Wouldnt most of these "hacks" or attempts to bend the rule just get sniffed out during voting and scored less?

I know i wouldnt award lots of points to a model which just stashes inappropriate parts somewhere for the sake of using them in the B-model

They probably would, but it is best to lower their number and raise the quality of the entry models.

Not saying I would do it if I entered since it isn't in the spirit of the competition, but it is very easy to hide extra parts on a model, very, very easy. And most likely you would never see them unless they are pointed out to you. On my current MOC (not for this contest) I have about 5 places to hide parts (including a small tire) already where you wouldn't see it on any photo I would take of the model and the model isn't even at the 30% done mark.

So people who want to bent the rules and get away with it, can. Of course hiding a bucket or a 62.4 wheel would be hard to achieve, but a couple of small parts or "design choices" (for parts that work better on your B-Model) it's really easy.

edit:

@Above: Jim's response is perfectly normal, the contest is: make a set like TLG, A and B model. TLG doesn't hide buckets or wheels on an A-model to use for the B-model, so you don't either. This shouldn't even be a question. Before you consider this reply harsh as well, read the contest rules and think: What would TLG do?

Edited December 3, 2015 by Appie

[Milan]

Ok thanks!

Sorry if you already know this, but note that your models must be new, and never shown anywhere. Good luck! :)

[Epic Technic]

Jim's response is perfectly normal, the contest is: make a set like TLG, A and B model. TLG doesn't hide buckets or wheels on an A-model to use for the B-model, so you don't either. This shouldn't even be a question. Before you consider this reply harsh as well, read the contest rules and think: What would TLG do?

I did read the rules, and nothing was in the rules about my concern, therefore my question is completely legitimate. Also, not everyone is lucky enough to have a bunch of LEGO sets in order to know if they do put in 'useless parts'.

[Appie]

I did read the rules, and nothing was in the rules about my concern, therefore my question is completely legitimate. Also, not everyone is lucky enough to have a bunch of LEGO sets in order to know if they do put in 'useless parts'.

Yes, there was.

And if you have alot of sets or not shouldn't matter to answer the simple question: what would TLG do? (which is the mindset for this competition since it is in the rules) Even from reading only reviews or viewing images of sets you can see the B-Models don't hide buckets or wheels.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Appie

[Epic Technic]

Yes, there was.

And if you have alot of sets or not shouldn't matter to answer the simple question: what would TLG do? (which is the mindset for this competition since it is in the rules) Even from reading only reviews or viewing images of sets you can see the B-Models don't hide buckets or wheels.

There is no rule about hiding extra pieces, you might have been thinking about this rule

No extra parts can be used for the B-model

. The problem is that I am not sure what TLG does, therefore I am using this topic in order to find out.

Now let's get back on topic.

[Erik Leppen]

I am not sure what TLG does

1. Build a cool model

2. Use most of its parts to build a decent alternative model

At the core, that's it. I suspect they update the main model if the alternative model would be better off with a certain extra part, but the rule of TC9 is, the parts of the B model are a subset of the parts of the A model. Follow this rule, stay in a 10kcs box for both models, and there you have it - a valid entry :D

[Epic Technic]

1. Build a cool model

2. Use most of its parts to build a decent alternative model

At the core, that's it. I suspect they update the main model if the alternative model would be better off with a certain extra part, but the rule of TC9 is, the parts of the B model are a subset of the parts of the A model. Follow this rule, stay in a 10kcs box for both models, and there you have it - a valid entry :D

Thanks!

[Lipko]

...

Edited December 4, 2015 by Lipko

[zux]

At the core, that's it. I suspect they update the main model if the alternative model would be better off with a certain extra part, but the rule of TC9 is, the parts of the B model are a subset of the parts of the A model. Follow this rule, stay in a 10kcs box for both models, and there you have it - a valid entry :D

Trouble is that you may find you need to use certain piece in B model that wasn't part of A model. And it would be easy to find a place for that extra piece in A model initially. However since A model will be gone at a time of designing B model it will be an issue. Do you get what I mean?

[muffinbrick]

I know, what you mean, but as Jim said, there is no problem to add some pins, liftarms or conectors to A-model, when you find out, that you need them for B, if those parts fits to whole design of A. Problem is to hide some specific parts, which just don't make any sense in building A-model.

[Jim]

I know, what you mean, but as Jim said, there is no problem to add some pins, liftarms or conectors to A-model, when you find out, that you need them for B, if those parts fits to whole design of A. Problem is to hide some specific parts, which just don't make any sense in building A-model.

Bingo! This is exactly what I mean. Suddenly seeing a bucket on the B-model while it's not used in the A-model is a perfect example.

[zux]

So it would then be just easier to create B-model first and build A-model with all the extra parts you need.

[zweihander]

So it would then be just easier to create B-model first and build A-model with all the extra parts you need.

I don't think so. If you do that, you will have to use ALL the pieces from the first model you built. I think it's easier to build with a subset of parts than building with a superset.

[Appie]

...

I know right. Thanks Erik for giving an explanation for something I gave up trying to.

Anyway the best method I think with the least amount of time/trouble is to have a solid idea for the A-model and then have a general idea of what you want the B-model to be and functions, so you can already figure out what big parts and gears go where on the B-model.

Tl;dr: design both models at the same time.

[Samer]

If my model is bound to a center, can I convert the rectangular limits to spherical coordinates? just a joke... come on guys, Be merciful to the admins and take it easy, IMHO the rules are simple, interesting, and form a very cool challenge, which LEGO and creativity is all about. Too detailed questions, too many sub-rules and its going to become stressing for admins to judge at the end (IMHO).

Ok, back to topic, I tried to read all the thread, but didn't find explanation of "Model Team" which is a restriction in the rules. Can someone forgive my ignorance and tell me what that is and how it relates to studded LEGO?

[Milan]

I tried to read all the thread, but didn't find explanation of "Model Team" which is a restriction in the rules. Can someone forgive my ignorance and tell me what that is and how it relates to studded LEGO?

Hi, ModelTeam is close to what is a Creator today, meaning almost exclusive use of studded bricks and plates in building body and chassis of the vehicle, with very few technic function.

We had a ModelTeam contest here a year ago.

For this contest, ModelTeam is not allowed, we need to use only technic parts. Some studded bricks and plates are ofc allowed, but no MT finish.

[Samer]

Hi, ModelTeam is close to what is a Creator today, meaning almost exclusive use of studded bricks and plates in building body and chassis of the vehicle, with very few Technic function.

We had a ModelTeam contest here a year ago.

For this contest, Model-team is not allowed, we need to use only Technic parts. Some studded bricks and plates are ofc allowed, but no MT finish.

Thank you. So you mean something like 75094 is a Model-team and not allowed despite it has a lot of Technic parts. TC8 #16 entry belongs to that as well if I interpreted correctly?

[Milan]

From the first page:

• Some studded parts and panels are okay, but no model team finish.
  

75094-like model is not fitting in this contest.

TC8 #16 entry would not fit in this contest, either.

[Samer]

[Cumulonimbus]

I must admit that I struggle to start my entry for this contest, I'm still stuck at the drawing board. Three of my ideas for original machines proved to be too bulky, even at the smallest functional scale. Each mock-up quickly past a volume 15000 studs, not even close to the threshold of 10000. To be continued ...

Edited December 6, 2015 by Cumulonimbus

[zweihander]

I have followed this discussion closely but I don't remember this question came up. Are accessories like a container for a telehandler, or a pallet for a forklift allowed? (Provided they fit in the size constraint with the main model) I know that detachable pieces are not allowed, but I think this doesn't fit in that category.