Or change small details on the MOC for the sistership, like a new bowhead, some banners, a touch of colour left and right

This assumes that the vessel has not been taken apart, which might very well be a false assumption.

If you capture a MOCed ship, you certainly capture both the ship and the license. That being the case, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense (at all) for the original owner to be able to license a sister ship.

However, we will await Ska's final decision on the topic.

Whether ships captured by NPCs should disappear from the game (so that a sister ship can be licensed) or not is a trickier question; we wouldn't want active ships lying around doing nothing but it doesn't make much sense for them to disappear; however, we could theoretically say that NPCs always condemn their captured ships.

Negotiation with the person who captured your ship is certainly an option.

In the long run, of course, if your ship is captured, you lost out. Which, of course, is how it should be... we can't win 'em all.

This assumes that the vessel has not been taken apart, which might very well be a false assumption.

True, I just keep my hunk a junks around till they are basically sunk... or until the lay out season on events is finished ;-)

So wait, I'm a bit confused now - my Wringe I has been captured by NPC Pirates, and I rebuilt her in different colours as the Wringe II, is that alright?

Yes, in any case, that is alright, as it is a (sufficiently) new moc. Should anyone protest, the Naval Licensing and Prize Court can take it up, but I doubt that will be relevant.

I also agree that if you lose your last ship, you should not get a new class 2 straight away, maybe a new class 1 ship. If you have not made a single successful run, you might get a new class 2. But once you have made profit, the risk should get more real, giving you a max class 1 licence (that can be upgraded instantly to a bigger ship provided you pay the cost difference when licencing).

Is not class 2 going to be a fairly insignificant size as the fleets are more developed later? I think having to "start over" with a free class 2 will be a significant blow to anyone who has recently lost an expensive class 4 or 5 ship.

I am with Gideon on this. Further, it will do away with some of the issues of managing who is eligible for what sort of free license.

Yeah, you're right. As we move forward a class 2 will be harsh enough. But you still have to lose to get a new ship? I just realized it is risky to licence smaller boats, so I propose that you can get a new ship if you lose all your ships above class 1 (I don't know if the conditions to get a new free licence is explicitly mentioned).

Edited April 1, 20168 yr by Sir Stig

My point is: for people like me, it is difficult to rebuild a ship everytime she is sunk or captured. I combine Lego with a fiancee, 2 jobs, a website and social life (and I enjoy the occassional watching Netflix). Also, in order to advance in the game, it is also important for BOBS as community that people make decent ships, not stupid ships because suddenly they only have 1 month to build a new ship.

Another thing: I like to keep my ships intact as I do 6 expositions a year. This means everytime I want to build a new ship, I have to start from scratch and bricklink all bricks.

I do agree that in time, a captured ship should not be the end of the world. However losing your flagship is really frustrating as a decent new flagship takes months to build.

So maybe we can meet in between and propose next: no matter how you lose a ship (even captured by another player), everyone is granted 1 sistership active at a time. So if your current ship is already a sistership and your second ship sinks or is captured, one needs to post a new (or at least heavily modified) ship.

edit: just wondering sth, my free ship was destroyed last month, and I licenced a sistership for it (as mentioned above, due lack of time) as free licence. But I do have another ship in my fleet (although it is a shared ship). So did I broke a rule with the free licence?

Edited April 1, 20168 yr by Maxim I

hmmm lots of discusssion, I'd like to add my two cents worth, which may be way off mark and maybe I'll learn some game rules I haven't absorbed yet.

On sisterships, fine if you want to licence a new identical ship to the one you just lost. You lost a ship you pay for a new licence and incur a financial penalty. It is a rule that is there to allow people who do not have time every month to re MOC a new ship. I think thats fair, one month you may be building a super-duper mansion and plantation and did not envision loosing 3 ships in one go to boot. It keeps a balance to the game, its a sink for our doubloons and keeps game play moving.

For my personal strategy I won't be using the sistership option unless I lose a lot of ships in one go, because I will use the opportunity to build an upgraded ship with a higher rating. The fact that ship licence goes up with every purchased ship should somewhat keep the sistership option in check as we will all need to upgrade our fleets from time to time. I say keep the rule.

As I understand you are only entitled to a free licence if you have zero ships on the water? So if even you lost your original free ship, if you built another one you don't get the freebie again unless you went back to zero ships? Please could someone clarify that one?

On Captured ships, I believe allships should be MOCed to be used (with the exception of the few the factions get), this is a building game, lets encourage building. Capturing a ship is a bonus, you are winning a free (or partial licence) I think we still need to see your character on the ship to believe it.

Can a sistership and captured ship be sailing around at the same time? Of course they are just sisters, not same ship! And as long as we work out all the other questions about when to MOC I think there will be no discrepancies there.

Personally I think the rules should exist to encourage building but also limit runaway loses or successes at the role of a dice in the MRCA... it needs to be a game that we can all win or lose not just feedback loop where the rich get richer and the poor stay poor (otherwise we should just all play monopoly or something).

Edit: Oh and I forgot, I heard mention of insurance coming soon, somewhere, maybe the rules will be changing in the future so all this will change with them?

Edited April 1, 20168 yr by BrickOn

As I understand you are only entitled to a free licence if you have zero ships on the water? So if even you lost your original free ship, if you built another one you don't get the freebie again unless you went back to zero ships? Please could someone clarify that one?

That was my understanding as well. I started with a 1T, but then built a 2F.

So I unlicenced my 1T in order to make that 2F my flagship, then relicenced that 1T as my 2nd ship by paying for it.

I say that player captured ships do need to be represented with a new MOC, but if there is an existing full scale ship MOC, smaller representations (partial or micro) should be enough. If you wish to upgrade the captured ship, this should be a separate MOC afterwards.

...As I understand you are only entitled to a free licence if you have zero ships on the water? So if even you lost your original free ship, if you built another one you don't get the freebie again unless you went back to zero ships? Please could someone clarify that one?...

Yes.

@Maxim, since your other ship was a shared ship I don't think it violates the rules... though, actually, that's kind of a tough one to handle, because shared ships should count for something but it would hardly be fair if they counted for a full ship.

...Edit: Oh and I forgot, I heard mention of insurance coming soon, somewhere, maybe the rules will be changing in the future so all this will change with them?

I don't think these basic rules will be changing though there may be some other tweaks to go along with the new MRCA system coming soon. As far as insurance goes, there are no plans for large scale insurance. MCTC provides insurance to its members for its shared ships, but I think that's the only sort of insurance there is out there.

Yes.

@Maxim, since your other ship was a shared ship I don't think it violates the rules... though, actually, that's kind of a tough one to handle, because shared ships should count for something but it would hardly be fair if they counted for a full ship.

Surely that's the easiest? Sell your share in the ship to another member of the ship-syndicate, get your free licence and then buy back your share? Works as long as some member in the syndicate has not exceeded 3 ships?

I don't think these basic rules will be changing though there may be some other tweaks to go along with the new MRCA system coming soon. As far as insurance goes, there are no plans for large scale insurance. MCTC provides insurance to its members for its shared ships, but I think that's the only sort of insurance there is out there.

Okay maybe it was not universal insurance I read about, that makes sense.

At Brickon: exactly how I think about the matter! (edit, I am not referring to your post of 1 minute ago :p )

The reward of capturing a ship is a price (the licence), which is already much higher than most traderuns.

About the freelicencing when you used to have more than one ship:

The whole game still is a game where a lot of luck is intended. I think a free licence should always be possible once that ship is lost, even if you have already 6 ships. The reason why? It is more fair. Why should a player be punished because after 2 months he lost a ship and only has another one, while there will be players who are so lucky they still have the free licenced ship and already 6 others after 1 year. This would result in an unfair advantage for the lucky players.

Another thing: losing a ship is already bad (no income). So if the player has to lost his right for the free licence, he is punished twice as hard (no income + the cost for licencing).

Edited April 1, 20168 yr by Maxim I

An unfair advantage for lucky players? Well, everyone has the same "chance" to be "lucky." I'd say the other way around is an unfair advantage for unlucky players, more like!

If you want to stay safe, get back on dry ground, landlubber!

Hahaha, depends on how you see it :p

After some calculation in my head, I see why the new free licence can be an unfair advantage for the system when having more than 1 ship. So I'll keep that in mind :)

But I agree to Kai, a ship that isn't more than 50% in hands of one person, should not count as a full licenced ship (except when determining how many ships one has in a fleet).

Having written a whole big piece about the constant sinking of ships as I seemed to remember from the start of the month I thought I'd better check my facts before I pressed post - out of the 57 ships that left port in last month's MCRA 3 sank (there was a hurricane!) and one was captured - so the "sistershipping" issue would only have been an actual problem once. Sure it would suck to be that person, but if that is representative of the average month - obviously time will tell - then I don't think we have much to worry about. A far more common result was essentially "you receive nothing but you are safe".

I reserve the right to have a bit of a sulk if I'm that player this time out but that is more because I have plans for all that lovely cash I hope to earn than having to build a replacement for Fénix!

Sure, there are a few rules that need tweaking - large ships should be significantly more durable than tiny ones, for example but I think leadership have a lot of this in hand.

First of all, my personal wealth or anyone's perception of it is entirely besides the point, and I strongly resent any insinuation that I am arguing out of mere personal interest!

(We can easily find reasons for duels - haha! )

Second, the MRCA is a story building/supporting mechanism, and it has as basic condition that a vessel entered into it is at risk of being lost. This condition is part of what makes the MRCA fun and interesting, as there is something at stake. Further, risk follows reward.

Therefore, to maintain immersion and the story building capabilities of the MRCA, I maintian that license and moc are two sides of the same coin, and should not be separated. Imagine the story lines created by ships being captured and changing hands several time - each ship will get its own story!

However, I understand the constraint of time, bricks, money, creativity, etc., which makes it impossible for anyone but KB to keep cranking out masterpieces.

But as I see it, the problem is more or less non-existent, when you consider the opportunity of ransoming the captured vessel, As suggested at 80 % from NPC's, and subject to negotiation from PCs. And then I would of course recommend those who capture a vessel, which the original owner is much attached to, to allow the prior owner to ransom it back at around license cost. That seems only fair.

I prefer this solution to Maxim's idea of double-licensing a captured vessel, as it will (moderately) flood the game moderately with sisterships, which will have the downside of stunting the market for selling and buying vessels.

Again, my concerns are to create an interesting game, not to make it convenient to play the EGS and make a great profit.

Oh boy, way too many questions to answer all at once!

Alright then - first, a ship once MOCed is still an MOCed ship after a capture. This means the person that captures it is not required to build the captured ship (unless they want to for an MRCA results build or something, but it is not necessary). Only in the case that someone captures an NPC vessel is a build required for the vessel to be used in the MRCA (this is a building game after all! The point is to get better at building, not to have a large fleet of unMOCed ships )

Secondly, the free first Class 1 or 2 licence is only for those who have no ships licenced at all. I don't see how anyone could think they were gaming the system running around with class 1 or 2 ships that they built each month and licenced for free on reckless expeditions, while their neighbors are roving the waters in class 7 Ts And the idea of the free licence is only to get people started faster, not to provide insurance against the sea. If you want DBs with minimal risk, stay on the land! (not to say you can't build ships, just don't spend your money licencing them if you are not prepared for the risks). The first couple of sentences in the MRCA thread should have made that plenty clear

Thirdly - sisterships are not supposed to be roving all over the seas. A captured vessel is not sunk - sisterships are only provided in the case of sunk ships. I believe there is a provision around somewhere stating how someone may ransom their ship from an NPC nation/pirate which captured it (e.g., Dr. Spock's first ship in the first MRCA round), so you may contact the leadership if your ship has been captured by an NPC vessel and you would like to random it. However, licencing a sistership while the first ship is in the possession of an NPC nation would be a no-go (if this actually happens, and you have a particular reason why you would like a sistership, you would at least have to contact the game leaders for that case).

The other questions will have to wait until I have time/remember them all Hope that answers some of them at least!

I've just been browsing the new rules and can I say how much clearer and simpler they now are? Great job leadership team! Huge thanks for all the time and effort you invest in BoBS.

To take just one example, in answer to one of the discssions above:

'If a builder has no other ship licenses, he/she is always entitled to a single Class 1-2 license (even if a previous free license ship has been lost).'

Edited April 1, 20168 yr by Fuzzy MacFuzz

If your ship is captured by the NPC, you can MOC your crew stealing it back if the ship qualifies under the free license rules. I did that in my first MRCA results with my very first ship. She was captured on her maiden MRCA voyage.

If it doesn't qualify under free license, I can't see why you can't MOC paying the ransom (aka license fee) to the vile NPC pirates to get your ship back.

Build something to show the story of how you got your ship back.

Build something to show the story of how you got your ship back.

I like this idea.

Too much to quote...

But here is how the current MRCA system works for now:

1) The free license only applies when you do not have any ships.

1a) shared ships are always considered owned by the one person who registered the ship. IE: The Sulky Harlequin counts towards Mike S.'s ship count. If he loses his Black Marlin (his free ship) he will have to pay for the Marlin's license again in order to use that MOC because the Sulky is still in play.

2) If a ship was captured in the MRCA, it stays in the MRCA until sunk or captured. You will know it when they resurface, the newspaper will tell you.

3) Sistershipping is in the game for the exact reason Maxim had mentioned. Some people will not have time to MOC a new ship every month. We don't want to kick them out of the game. We are not playing World of Warcraft here, we like casual participants as much as hardcore participants! Sistershipping allows more people access to one of the aspects of the game mechanism.

Does it make 100% sense that a captured MOC can be floating around at the same time as a new license with the same MOC? Historically... actually, yes. Shipbuilders used the same schematics over and over again, especially when they had a good design. It would not be uncommon to purchase a ship that was almost identical. The reason why we can't demand a new MOC with some changed colors or small design tweaks is because many people do not keep their MOCs up more than a few days, weeks, or months. I tend to rip things up right away unless my wife wants to keep a MOC on display for a little while. Others just don't have room or the pieces to keep things up. Some have suggested a MOC that shows a new purchase happening or a microscale build, but I am not comfortable with adding another monthly MOC to everyone's chore list just to play the MRCA. Plus as much as I like bursar builds, we probably already have enough accountants represented in BoBS already!

Taking away free licenses or sistershipping, while some may see inaccuracies righted, will result in less fun for many players, while keeping them should not infringe on anyone's fun.

We reward the good builds with praise, we coach the bad builds with suggestions, but the MRCA and EGS stand as a rewards system and game mechanism so that everyone can feel a little more attached to the project, as much as we have strove to give numerous realistic options to the entire system, we need to have a game that is accessible, fun, and light-hearted.

I totally agree with Ska on ALL the above.