Brethren of the Brick Seas (BoBS) Introduction and Starting Thread

[Bart]

Sneak peak on the ship that is being build.

Sneak peak, rigging. by Bart, on Flickr

Bart

[Maxim I]

So far so good, the Ship Index has been updated again!!!

As you can see in this post there is the possibility to sell/buy ships!!!

Right now there are no ships for sale yet, but in the future, I am sure there will! For example if someone makes a ship for fun, he can put it for sale and earn some extra db's!

Also ships conquered through the MCRA can be put for sale!

Interested in selling a ship? Contact me through private message.

I will ask a 3 db fee for administration once the ship is sold (paid by the seller) in order to keep updating the Ship Index!!! (yes, my real life job is real-estate broker )

---

Next updates of the Ship Index should be a Naval Flag library

I am also thinking about putting the Settlement index in that topic and maybe even a Trade Company/Organisations Index

[Bregir]

Sounds good, Maxim - but be prepared for competition on the ship-broker side. When you charge a fee, others may see the opportunity to do so too!

You might have created a position of monopoly, but out of sheer spite for mercantilism, I now feel a strong desire to try to break your monopoly!

If you are to make other indexes not directly related to ships, I suggest separate topics for that. Otherwise, it gets very hard to find everything.

[Maxim I]

Sounds good, Maxim - but be prepared for competition on the ship-broker side. When you charge a fee, others may see the opportunity to do so too!

You might have created a position of monopoly, but out of sheer spite for mercantilism, I now feel a strong desire to try to break your monopoly!

If you are to make other indexes not directly related to ships, I suggest separate topics for that. Otherwise, it gets very hard to find everything.

Well, I am the one updating the Ship Index after a transaction, so that's why I can make a legit claim for a small administration fee

And it will be necessary to report a transaction to me, otherwise the leaders will lose track of what ship belongs to who

I understand the need of separated topics, but then again, the more topics there are, the easier to lose a topic But then again, keeping track of both ships and settlements may be very hard for me in the future....

Dilemma's

[Bregir]

Well, I am the one updating the Ship Index after a transaction, so that's why I can make a legit claim for a small administration fee

And it will be necessary to report a transaction to me, otherwise the leaders will lose track of what ship belongs to who

I understand the need of separated topics, but then again, the more topics there are, the easier to lose a topic But then again, keeping track of both ships and settlements may be very hard for me in the future....

Dilemma's

Again, I would definitely make separate indexes.

Hypothetically:

I build and post a ship, clearly indicating that it is for sale.

Someone bids for it, and we agree. I edit the post to say: Sold to Maxim. Maxim then registers it via the webform and transfers the money to me.

While you might not feel compelled to update the ship index, will the admins see any problems in this?

And what if I decide to moc a ship broker and manage postings of ships for sale - I will still be required to pay you a fee everytime?

I would suggest you reduce the fee to 1 DB for sales managed by someone else, meaning you "only" need to update the index. I would feel that that was a fair fee, and it would open up for others brokering ship sales. Then it can be a competition on who makes the best sales pitches, handles the process best, or has the best connections to buyers. It will then be a choice rather than a requirement to use your services in brokering the trade.

What I am really hinting at is the issues with establishing a monopoly: As people will not have the opportunity to take their business elsewhere, or copy your business themselves, they are prone to feel unjustly treated. Especially in a community based game like this, you run the risk of stepping on someones toes, by establishing yourself in a position of power or advantage.

[Maxim I]

Again, I would definitely make separate indexes.

Hypothetically:

I build and post a ship, clearly indicating that it is for sale.

Someone bids for it, and we agree. I edit the post to say: Sold to Maxim. Maxim then registers it via the webform and transfers the money to me.

While you might not feel compelled to update the ship index, will the admins see any problems in this?

And what if I decide to moc a ship broker and manage postings of ships for sale - I will still be required to pay you a fee everytime?

I would suggest you reduce the fee to 1 DB for sales managed by someone else, meaning you "only" need to update the index. I would feel that that was a fair fee, and it would open up for others brokering ship sales. Then it can be a competition on who makes the best sales pitches, handles the process best, or has the best connections to buyers. It will then be a choice rather than a requirement to use your services in brokering the trade.

What I am really hinting at is the issues with establishing a monopoly: As people will not have the opportunity to take their business elsewhere, or copy your business themselves, they are prone to feel unjustly treated. Especially in a community based game like this, you run the risk of stepping on someones toes, by establishing yourself in a position of power or advantage.

Separated indexes it will be :)

I do understand your point about monopolies.

The way I see it, if there are a few brokers, the owner of a ship will be stalked by some of them :p Also a seller can agree directly with a potential buyer without a broker.

All of these brokers will have their own post with a funny MoC of a broker (that's a good thing ofcourse!). But that also means the game-leaders will have to follow all those topics, just like a possible buyer will have to go through all the different broker topics (some of them may be a few pages back as the last post in the topic was a month ago).

I can offer the brokers a help there by also putting their ships for sale on the "Ships for Sale"-list and update the status of the ship to "For sale" in the Ship Index, followed by a link to the topic of the broker.

For me it is absolutely no problem to just update the shipindex. That's my job as I started the index.

But as you can see, doing the administrationwork for a seller of for a broker, for me that's the same. (Let's see my role more of a Notary who has to officialise a transaction and receives a fee for that).

It is indeed more fun if there are different brokers, it will lead to some funny stories and a nice earning for some people who put their effort in selling ships, but it will also lead to more complicated situation for Bobs-members and leaders.

I am really open for discussion, so I'll start a private message with you and 3 different Bobs-leaders about the matter

To everyone else:

Keep building, and thinking about selling your ship! I'll post the result when we decided on the matter

[blackdeathgr]

I, for one, have a ship (Little Hermes) ready to be put on sea and available for renting per month. To help my oleander friends, first month is for free if anyone wants to use it. For other nations a small insignificant DB fee will be required. Ship incoming today or tomorrow so stay tuned.

Bart, fine detailing btw :)

[Sir Stig]

About the city bank roll. Is it only for raids and determining tje Mayors pay?

[Kai NRG]

About the city bank roll. Is it only for raids and determining tje Mayors pay?

So far, it only factors into raids and trade runs... the Mayor's pay is really determined (right now) more by the size of the settlement than by the bank roll.

[Vedauwoo]

If there is going to be a "ship transfer/sale fee," it seems to me it would be better for this to be handled and accumulated by the "game masters" and used for the betterment of the game or an occasional lottery or something....

The idea of one member "making money" on one of the game mechanics just rubs me the wrong way.....I come to gaming to get away from the majority of megablocks capitalism foists upon us.

Further.....what is to prevent me (or another player) from simply "copy/paste-ing" your "ship index" and charging nothing for the maintenace of ownership posts?

Now, if the game is to have the "profession" of ship reseller or something, I can see this being a part of their game....but that would then mean any ship sale would have to go through one of these players....and what happens if they stop playing/posting?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Vedauwoo

[Bart]

(...)

Bart, fine detailing btw :)

Thanks,

I had the whole rigging done, except two fore-aft sails. then I bumped into a stay to hard and the whole mast collapsed :S :S :S

Now its a tangle of ropes, mast pieces and spars.

(some pictures of before this accident on my flickr)

[Maxim I]

If there is going to be a "ship transfer/sale fee," it seems to me it would be better for this to be handled and accumulated by the "game masters" and used for the betterment of the game or an occasional lottery or something....

The idea of one member "making money" on one of the game mechanics just rubs me the wrong way.....I come to gaming to get away from the majority of megablocks capitalism foists upon us.

Further.....what is to prevent me (or another player) from simply "copy/paste-ing" your "ship index" and charging nothing for the maintenace of ownership posts?

Now, if the game is to have the "profession" of ship reseller or something, I can see this being a part of their game....but that would then mean any ship sale would have to go through one of these players....and what happens if they stop playing/posting?

The discussion about this has started with some of the game masters, I'll post the result once we agreed...

Just saying this: I see myself more as the Notary. Will I make some ingame money out of it? Well probably... But will I make as much profit as the guy who just sold his ship? Not at all.

Will I make as much profit as the guy who bought the ship and will be able to use it in a MCRA? Ofcourse no

So the job of the notary is doing the administration and negotiation between the two parties.

It is true I claimed that role as I started the Ship Index. If everone thinks you or Bregir or whoever is better suited for the role of Notary (and thus Keeper of the Ship Index which will have to be updated after every McRA), he may feel free to copy paste everything and make it his responsibility...

If you want a poll to decide who is the Notary, well go ahead! The time I would have spent on the Index in the future can be consumed in making ships which will give me a higher profit than the job of Notary.

Guys please, this still is a game... I was the first one who thought about the administration service so that's why I offered my services. I didn't intend to step someone on his toes as I thought everyone would be gratefull for having such a complete shipindex. Looks like I am wrong...

[Bregir]

I promised pictures of my guns:

Guns for the Athena by Christian West, on Flickr

The one on the left is meant to be a long 12 pounder (for chasers), while the one on the right is an 18 pounder carronade (short range, but high damage output). I am quite happy with them. However, for the carronade, it should ideally be put on a slide or on wheels, but as it turns out, my gun ports are too low over the deck, so I have to keep the carronades low...

Thanks,

I had the whole rigging done, except two fore-aft sails. then I bumped into a stay to hard and the whole mast collapsed :S :S :S

Now its a tangle of ropes, mast pieces and spars.

(some pictures of before this accident on my flickr)

Nice rigging, Bart - looks very elaborate - much more than what I have been working on! However, I had a very similar experience, where my bowsprit was dislocated by an unlucky hand movement, thus removing the support for the upper foremast, tipping that over, removing the support of the mainmast, etc... It was NOT fun putting back together... After which I realised I hadn't finished the deck detailing, meaning I had to work under the stays and spars in constant danger of knocking something else over... Luckily, it is a pretty sturdy construction as long as everything is still under tension... but knock down that one critical stay....

But I suppose it is all a learning process?

The discussion about this has started with some of the game masters, I'll post the result once we agreed...

Just saying this: I see myself more as the Notary. Will I make some ingame money out of it? Well probably... But will I make as much profit as the guy who just sold his ship? Not at all.

Will I make as much profit as the guy who bought the ship and will be able to use it in a MCRA? Ofcourse no

So the job of the notary is doing the administration and negotiation between the two parties.

It is true I claimed that role as I started the Ship Index. If everone thinks you or Bregir or whoever is better suited for the role of Notary (and thus Keeper of the Ship Index which will have to be updated after every McRA), he may feel free to copy paste everything and make it his responsibility...

If you want a poll to decide who is the Notary, well go ahead! The time I would have spent on the Index in the future can be consumed in making ships which will give me a higher profit than the job of Notary.

Guys please, this still is a game... I was the first one who thought about the administration service so that's why I offered my services. I didn't intend to step someone on his toes as I thought everyone would be gratefull for having such a complete shipindex. Looks like I am wrong...

I am pretty sure everybody thinks the ship index is a brilliant idea, and your initiative is really great!

The other part of it, we will find a solution to. I actually find it fair to encourage economically this kind of initiative, albeit in a different form. I am sure we will find a solution to this, and one that is fair for all.

As you say, Maxim - it is just a game. And the point behind my comments above was really to avoid animosity, not spark it!

Edited January 20, 2016 by Bregir

[Bart]

Bregir I try to be as realistic as possible with my rigging. I've the knowledge about it, and like to do it, so I try to counter balance my small amount of bricks and therefore smaller hull. My build is based on a existing ship type 'kof'

I'm positive I can get it back together, the yards weren't tied down with knots yet. I only ran all the lines trough their designated eyes, so I should be able to extract them easy. Relieving me of 5 lines per yard.

And as you say this gives the opportunity to do something about the deck, or change some other things, I'm not happy with the way the topping lifts (is that the correct English name?) are belayed on deck.

For the curious people, go check Flickr, I'll post the ship here as part of a challenge II build, that might take a while.

I'm still on an internal debate on whether to add sails or not, as I only have paper to my disposal, and its a pain in the butt to do them on a square rig, (compared to the canoe-outrigger latteen sail)

Somebody sad to stiffen the mast with rods, but that's not the problem, it breaks where the cylindrical 1x1 bricks meat up with the 1x1 eye plate.

Oh and nice cannons! good idea with the wheels, hadn't seen that one yet.

the carronade looks good to me too.

I'm still on the lookout for an idea to have a 3 stud long base for a canon with wheels ;)

Maxim, I don't think everybody is opposed to your business model, it's just they weren't prepared for it.

I'm okay with you earning some db's if you work as a broker on the ship market (But you'd better make a good moc about a ship broker soon ) if that is aloud by the BoBS lords

Might be that earning db's for updating the Index is a bit to much for some people. But if you make a 'for sale post' for it etc and make db's for that it should be good.

If players don't want you to earn db's then they can't have a post in the 'for sale' part of the Index, and have to sell it themselfs.

anyway I'm not opposed to the idea.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Bart

[Bregir]

Bregir I try to be as realistic as possible with my rigging. I've the knowledge about it, and like to do it, so I try to counter balance my small amount of bricks and therefore smaller hull. My build is based on a existing ship type 'kof'

I'm positive I can get it back together, the yards weren't tied down with knots yet. I only ran all the lines trough their designated eyes, so I should be able to extract them easy. Relieving me of 5 lines per yard.

And as you say this gives the opportunity to do something about the deck, or change some other things, I'm not happy with the way the topping lifts (is that the correct English name?) are belayed on deck.

For the curious people, go check Flickr, I'll post the ship here as part of a challenge II build, that might take a while.

I'm still on an internal debate on whether to add sails or not, as I only have paper to my disposal, and its a pain in the butt to do them on a square rig, (compared to the canoe-outrigger latteen sail)

Somebody sad to stiffen the mast with rods, but that's not the problem, it breaks where the cylindrical 1x1 bricks meat up with the 1x1 eye plate.

....***snip***

I saw a lot of sailing pics on your flickr - do you sail or work with sails in RL? I have sailed abit of racing and have my own small sloop, but that one is slow and mainly for toursailing...

It is really interesting to see the rigging so far, and I will be looking forward to seeing it finished - good luck in putting it back together! I like how the masts are correctly in several parts, and your shrouds are great too. (Although they still seem to be missing ratlines! - joke aside - the level of detail (and functionality!) is just amazing!)

I think topping lifts is a correct word (it makes sence on wikipedia ) but I think the age of sail word you are looking for would be "halyard".

I have put rods inside my masts, but I think there will always be weak parts - at least there is on mine.

As to sails, I did mine in plain white paper, and I am tolerable happy with the outcome - the trick, I found, was to cut them out so they appear to be already stretched by the wind. If you can, I really think you should add sails, as it adds a lot to the overall look.

See below my WIP shot:

HMS Athena - A model by Christian West, on Flickr

It used to be cutter rigged, but as my brother so nicely suggested, it was a bit large for a one-masted vessel... And it really does look better as a snow! (And yes, there is actually a small trysail mast behind the mainmast! )

Edit: Cannons: Thanks! As to a 3 stud base with wheels, how about snotting it like this?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Bregir

[Capn Frank]

And it really does look better as a snow! (And yes, there is actually a small trysail mast behind the mainmast! )

I was going to look more closely at to rigging to confirm, but it's obvious you know the difference between snow and brig rigs.

Great work so far.

[Bregir]

I was going to look more closely at to rigging to confirm, but it's obvious you know the difference between snow and brig rigs.

Great work so far.

Thanks!

Aaand... NERD ALERT! (Both of us, that is... )

Wikipedia is my friend, and sailing ships an interest, so it is fun to research!

[Bart]

I (am training to) work as a engineer in the merchant navy.

Those sailing pictures on flickr, are mostly when the volvo ocean race visited Scheveningen last year, I went to have a look.

I would love to own my own yacht, or work on a true sailing ship, but that is a plan for later.

So no don't work with sails, but I've had some lessons in school, and we where always playing around with the school boats.

And I've an very high interest in the subject (modern and historical).

I'm not adding ratlines. it doesn't fit the scale in my opinion, if I want to do that correctly I should add lower shrouds, (at least four in total)

No it's not halyard, those are connected in the centre of the yard. (I've got those too) and used to hoist the yard up and down.

Topping lifts are used to rotate the yards vertically. They are connected to the ends of the yard and go up (forming a triangle)

Braces are used to rotate the yards horizontally. These are also connected to the ends of the yard, but go aft to deck or to a mast behind it.

Your snow is coming along good too!, and yes cutting out sails as if they are filled with wind does add.

I'll check my stash if I have those wing plates for cannons :)

Edited January 20, 2016 by Bart

[Tezclatipoca]

Great work !

Your knowledge in rigging of all is great ! I learn everyday !

I love the carronade design you made Bregir. Your ship will be a splendid snow !

[Capn Frank]

Aaand... NERD ALERT! (Both of us, that is... )

Wikipedia is my friend, and sailing ships an interest, so it is fun to research!

I had learned too much about rigging after revamping the Ship Index.

RTA LNA did a great job on the first edition of the sorted ship index, which made it a lot easier to work from.

[Bart]

Don't give to much approvals for something I haven't even finished yet.

I've had those knowledge a while, just never really showed it here :D

btw. Nice Eslandola banner with the coins!

[Tezclatipoca]

btw. Nice Eslandola banner with the coins!

Thank you.

It's the official one you can find in the topic dedicated to Eslandola.

[SkaForHire]

Again, I would definitely make separate indexes.

Hypothetically:

I build and post a ship, clearly indicating that it is for sale.

Someone bids for it, and we agree. I edit the post to say: Sold to Maxim. Maxim then registers it via the webform and transfers the money to me.

While you might not feel compelled to update the ship index, will the admins see any problems in this?

And what if I decide to moc a ship broker and manage postings of ships for sale - I will still be required to pay you a fee everytime?

I would suggest you reduce the fee to 1 DB for sales managed by someone else, meaning you "only" need to update the index. I would feel that that was a fair fee, and it would open up for others brokering ship sales. Then it can be a competition on who makes the best sales pitches, handles the process best, or has the best connections to buyers. It will then be a choice rather than a requirement to use your services in brokering the trade.

What I am really hinting at is the issues with establishing a monopoly: As people will not have the opportunity to take their business elsewhere, or copy your business themselves, they are prone to feel unjustly treated. Especially in a community based game like this, you run the risk of stepping on someones toes, by establishing yourself in a position of power or advantage.

Just remember, you can't sail that sucker in the MRCA without actually buying a license and the money going to the game's bank. (Which actually goes back to your factions.)

[Vedauwoo]

The discussion about this has started with some of the game masters, I'll post the result once we agreed...

Just saying this: I see myself more as the Notary. Will I make some ingame money out of it? Well probably... But will I make as much profit as the guy who just sold his ship? Not at all.

Will I make as much profit as the guy who bought the ship and will be able to use it in a MCRA? Ofcourse no

So the job of the notary is doing the administration and negotiation between the two parties.

It is true I claimed that role as I started the Ship Index. If everone thinks you or Bregir or whoever is better suited for the role of Notary (and thus Keeper of the Ship Index which will have to be updated after every McRA), he may feel free to copy paste everything and make it his responsibility...

If you want a poll to decide who is the Notary, well go ahead! The time I would have spent on the Index in the future can be consumed in making ships which will give me a higher profit than the job of Notary.

Guys please, this still is a game... I was the first one who thought about the administration service so that's why I offered my services. I didn't intend to step someone on his toes as I thought everyone would be gratefull for having such a complete shipindex. Looks like I am wrong...

Just remember, you can't sail that sucker in the MRCA without actually buying a license and the money going to the game's bank. (Which actually goes back to your factions.)

Seems to me the MCRA type form is the best way to do this....if you register a "purchased ship" you pay an additional "title transfer fee" that is compiled by the game runners....now, if the game runners then "pay" whomever is the current "notary" a weekly or monthly stipend for updating threads....seems that would be much more transparent...

[gedren_y]

Seems to me the MCRA type form is the best way to do this....if you register a "purchased ship" you pay an additional "title transfer fee" that is compiled by the game runners....now, if the game runners then "pay" whomever is the current "notary" a weekly or monthly stipend for updating threads....seems that would be much more transparent...

I think this is the fairest option. I think the "transfer fee" should be 5 DB which would be divided among the groups like this: seller's nation 2 DB, and 1 DB for each of the other nations. The management "stipend" cost should also be covered by all nations.