Brethren of the Brick Seas (BoBS) Introduction and Starting Thread

[Tezclatipoca]

Seriously last post until I get my work done today --

I look at it this way, your properties are a low yield, rather safe investment. The merchant runs are high yield (some extremely) but carry a lot of danger. Just ask the Appleseed, who no longer exists.

Yes, NPC pirates were quite killer this time around (and completely randomly rolled)

That is not good news....

No ! I really have bad luck !

So I am officially the first drowned in BoBS MRCA ! Great I am at least first at a thing...

Bah...

How the ship was lost ? I will have to MOC that...

[MKJoshA]

I look at it this way, your properties are a low yield, rather safe investment. The merchant runs are high yield (some extremely) but carry a lot of danger. Just ask the Appleseed, who no longer exists.

Yes, NPC pirates were quite killer this time around (and completely randomly rolled)

The suspense is killing me!

I don't have a problem with the flying corsair being licenced, especially since Maxim offers to forego the FB DBs for it. It is made in advance, but it is made specifically for BoBs purpose, and it would cost the same to licence it. As I see it, it is an expression of enthusiasm that led him to build and post it so early. It is a fine ship as well, that would add some spice to the brick seas. That being said, I also see the challenges with allowing it. It is a grey zone, but it is a nice shade of grey.

I have a scenario that ties into Maxim's issue. If I take my ship, and keep the body of the ship largely the same but change the sails, is it going to be a problem if I license it but don't try to get freebuild points for it? It would largely be the same ship, I would only be modifying it to add a ship to my MCRA capabilities. Seeing as we are "allowed" to re-use the exact same MOC to replace a ship that's sunk it would seem that gently modifying an existing MOC would be acceptable, especially if I'm not trying to get FB DBs from it. But since Maxim's issue came up I figured I'd better ask.

At this point you can build +6 plantations a month, so the growth is +30 DB

Except you are only allowed to license up to 3 properties per month.

[Sir Stig]

Step 2 - Invest in property.

Plantation small preferred. 25 DB cost, 5 DB monthly income, mainly flat open lands, so you can "skimp" on parts. (Cos 3 x 32 x 32 is smaller than 1 x 64 x 64 and the yield is the same)

Your income grows exponentially, assuming you do a successful trade run and build +3 plantations each month.

1st month 15 DB

2nd month 30 DB

3rd month 45 DB

4th month 60 DB

5th month 75 DB

At this point you can build +6 plantations a month, so the growth is +30 DB

6th month 105 DB

7th month 135 DB

8th month 165 DB

At this point you can build +9 plantations a month, so the growth is +45 DB

9th month 210 DB

At this point you can build +12 plantations a month, so the growth is +60 DB

10th month 270 DB

At this point you can build +15 plantations a month, so the growth is +75 DB

11th month 345 DB

There is a limit on 3 licences a month in the same place. 2 if you build in 2 different places. There was a limit to how many plantations each settlement can have, but the first month it was disregarded. I don't know if, and when they will make a limit on it again, and what that limit would be.

[TitusV]

@CelesAurivern: what an exemple!

Only remark: the amount of properties a month is limited to 3, and one person can only own 12 ships, so there are some borders!

[SkaForHire]

Right, I'm not entirely familiar with the MRCA, but let me make up a mock scenario to see how easy it is to get some starting cash.

Just for discussions sake, 'kay lads? Not saying anyone might actually go through with the whole process, but halfway is good enough to get your team a strong foothold.

1. A trade fleet is limited to 5 ships. (We can sail solo, but say we go with 5 for maximum safety. Or we could use an immortal escort, which is free to hire?)

2. Assuming 5 captains with 5 x Class 2T (30% cargo modifier, speed 2)

3. Jan trade route 1>6>10 has a total value of 500 (500 x 0.3 x 5 = 750)

4. Cargo roll for 2 zones 25%-65%. Say we take the average at 45% = 337.50

5. Split it 5 ways - 67.5 DB/month

If your ship blows up, you get a free licence for another class 2T, so no losses!

If you sail with a fleet you might still get a share of whatever is left, so no capital investment but free gains!

Add your FB income, you should have at least 75DB a month to spend.

Step 2 - Invest in property.

Plantation small preferred. 25 DB cost, 5 DB monthly income, mainly flat open lands, so you can "skimp" on parts. (Cos 3 x 32 x 32 is smaller than 1 x 64 x 64 and the yield is the same)

Your income grows exponentially, assuming you do a successful trade run and build +3 plantations each month.

1st month 15 DB

2nd month 30 DB

3rd month 45 DB

4th month 60 DB

5th month 75 DB

At this point you can build +6 plantations a month, so the growth is +30 DB

6th month 105 DB

7th month 135 DB

8th month 165 DB

At this point you can build +9 plantations a month, so the growth is +45 DB

9th month 210 DB

At this point you can build +12 plantations a month, so the growth is +60 DB

10th month 270 DB

At this point you can build +15 plantations a month, so the growth is +75 DB

11th month 345 DB

At the end of 1 year, I'm a minor property magnate and the growth can still go up exponentially.

Boring? Maybe, but a true merchant's goal is to make as much money in the shortest time possible, with the least amount of effort and the smallest amount of investment possible.

Mind, we haven't even added the 'bonus' DBs from all the plantation FBs.

There will always be power gamers in any game. Some people are going to make a lot of money in the system, but upping costs will make it incredibly hard for new members. I supposed people could get board with reaping in tons of cash and not having much to spend it on in the beginning, but I suppose it is the way you play the game.

1>6>10 would only be 450, if you are a speed 3 vessel and can land at all those ports. Right now there are anywhere from 1-3 NPC pirates / privateers in every zone, the fail rate was quite high this month. The way to change what you are saying seems to be that nobody should get a free license, then there is always risk. The free license was to get people into the game right away, and considering how many people lost their ship this month, I don't think we should take away the one free license.

[Tezclatipoca]

I totally agree with Ska !

A class 2 ship is around 150dbs so loosing it in the first run is throwing this amount through the window! Trade runs in MRCA are dangerous ! It's not easy money !

So the free license is very important IMO !

Concerning building in the settlements you are limited : there are rules to stop the overload of bad plantations MOCs !

We are not here to win Dbs ! But we are here to build Lego !

[dr_spock]

Sounds like those NPC pirates were out pirating.

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.

We pillage, we plunder, we rifle and loot.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

We kidnap and ravage and don't give a hoot.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.

We extort and pilfer, we filch and sack.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

Maraud and embezzle and even highjack.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.

We kindle and char and enflame and ignite.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

We burn up the city, we're really a fright.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

We're rascals and scoundrels, we're villains and knaves.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

We're devils and black sheep, we're really bad eggs.

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

Yo ho, you ho, a pirate's life for me.

We're beggars and blighters and ne'er do-well cads,

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

Aye, but we're loved by our mommies and dads,

Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

[MKJoshA]

I'm sure there are other places I could ask this question, but I'm posting it here since I know someone in the community will know the answer! I've been looking for trans-clear plates, but they don't seem to exist in Lego. I feel like I've seen them in MOCs, but of course I don't have any examples. Has Lego produced a 4x4, 6x6, or 8x8 in trans-clear or trans light blue? I've found the rare 8x8 trans-medium blue, but I'm looking for something that's not $8 a piece

EDIT: Let me add that I'm talking about larger plates. Not 1x1s or 1x2s.

Edited February 3, 2016 by MKJoshA

[CelesAurivern]

There will always be power gamers in any game. Some people are going to make a lot of money in the system, but upping costs will make it incredibly hard for new members. I supposed people could get board with reaping in tons of cash and not having much to spend it on in the beginning, but I suppose it is the way you play the game.

1>6>10 would only be 450, if you are a speed 3 vessel and can land at all those ports. Right now there are anywhere from 1-3 NPC pirates / privateers in every zone, the fail rate was quite high this month. The way to change what you are saying seems to be that nobody should get a free license, then there is always risk. The free license was to get people into the game right away, and considering how many people lost their ship this month, I don't think we should take away the one free license.

Of course, I have no issue with power gamers. I used to be one :p

I don't think the free licence should be taken away. That's a blanket solution that affects everyone, like banning alcohol because there's a drunk man in the neighbourhood.

Perhaps more moderate controls like a cooling off period.

If you just lost your last ship, your next free licence ship cannot participate in the same type of MCRA activity the following month.

You can, however, choose to do another activity: Trade/Escort or Bounty/Treasure Hunting or Predator.

Also, for monthly income calculation, particularly from FBs and property income, perhaps we could come up with a webform that each player has to submit at the end of each month to the GM(s) doing the accounting.

So this month, I have 6 FBs. My first two are 10DBs, my next 4 earn the minimum of 3 DBs, total 32 DBs.

GM just needs to verify the contents of that one form per player, instead of sifting through multiple forms.

Mind, I have no idea how difficult it is for a DM to control these things, so it's ultimately just an idea.

Personally, I think we can all self moderate ourselves and stick to the rules without too much direct enforcement.

[CelesAurivern]

There is a limit on 3 licences a month in the same place. 2 if you build in 2 different places. There was a limit to how many plantations each settlement can have, but the first month it was disregarded. I don't know if, and when they will make a limit on it again, and what that limit would be.

For that, means I have to build bigger, using the 64 x 64 for higher tiers.

So instead of 9 x 32 x 32, I build 3 x 64 x 64.

Same cost, just need more mats.

So yes, there's a workaround.

Not sure what the property limits rules are though.

Btw, is there a list of GMs, authorised key appointment holders somewhere? Yunno, in case we need to talk to someone.

I only know Ska leads our beloved Corrington :p

Edited February 3, 2016 by CelesAurivern

[Tezclatipoca]

The GMs are the leaders of every faction. Ska is not alone. But he could be considered as the main leader.

Concerning the plantation it has been said in the rules that a settlement is not allowed to have more than its level of development (1 for hamlet, 2 for town etc...) and it was said that in the beginning this rule would not have to be respected. Fine ! Why not ? But I think plantations could follow the rule of the parity saying that you have to develop a settlement in harmony and not overload it by only one type of building.

I know plantations are great ! (Hey I'm the Apple lover...) but you could not definitely make a settlement only with plantations.

This part is leading me to a rule question :

If the parity is not respected I understand the settlement will not be considered bigger, but would it be unfair (or too complex) to overtax the buildings that are not respecting the rule. It could bring the factions a bonus and it could prevent some players to try to overload the settlement by one type of building. This is just an idea, I don't know if it's doable.

[Bregir]

A question to better understand what happens when a ship is captured. Let me pose an example:

I license a warship to prey on enemies in a zone. Here, she captures a trader and carries her to port.

The trader is a class 2 F with a license cost of 100 db's. How does that put me up, gamewise?

Does it put the vessel immediately at my disposal, as if I had licensed her myself? If I should not wish to use her, will there be some way to have her prize-condemned (at a reduced value), or should I sell her to another player (or nation) based on market forces, meaning that they will take over the license?

Or, alternatively, do I simply take over the ship in an unlicensed state, meaning that I will have to license her before use?

I am thinking the first alternative is the most fair (and fun). Possibly, there could be a reduced fee (like 10-25 % of the license cost) representing the cost to refit her after the action.

As for prize-money, I am not sure it should be an option, but if so, it should probably be at a reduced value (like 50 %), as it is the easy choice, rather than negotiating a trade.

And what happens to cargo?

And yes, the answers to these questions will definitely have an effect on how I will be using my future ships!

EDIT: I seem to remember that some larger ships will require an upkeep. I suppose this upkeep will also be required for captured ships, as there will still be a cost to keep them sailing!

Edited February 3, 2016 by Bregir

[Maxim I]

Well IMO,

A ship is captured as unlicenced. The capturer will have to licence it when they want to add the ship to its fleet.

The cargo is calculated in the capturing. A predator gains the cargo of its prey. And mostly, the predators are warships, so without cargo themself.

If someone don't want to licence a captured ship, he can sell it to someone who is in need of a ship. About the price. I was thinking about the price to licence a ship one class lower than the classvalue of the transfered ship.

[Tomsche]

And then of course there is the rule for plantations that any settlement can have a maximum of plantations equal to it`s level... and don`t see most (if any) of the newly founded / to be founded hamlets becoming large cities in a quick time

[Bregir]

@Maxim:

I disagree, and maintain my former position.

There is of course the question of the additional cost of licensing ships above the first three. That difference must definitely be payed, but I still think that a reduced fee (10-25 %) of the original licensing cost, would best represent the value of capturing another vessel. This fee might be dependent on the amount of damage to the captured ship, but I think that will be too complicated to administrate.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Bregir

[TitusV]

And then of course there is the rule for plantations that any settlement can have a maximum of plantations equal to it`s level... and don`t see most (if any) of the newly founded / to be founded hamlets becoming large cities in a quick time

Wrong! You might be surprised by the growth of Elysabethtown!

@Bregir: what are you complaining about? Your trade run made you like 200 DBs!

[Sir Stig]

If you have to licence a captured ship, you have gained nothing. Warships, for instance, does not have cargo to capture.

The captured ships have only been listed as unlicenced in the ship index.

The work with the index is great, and I appreciate that someone takes the work with updating it. However, how ships are first listed can not dictate the rules. The game masters have said nothing on the matter that I know of. So it is a matter of clarification what the initial rules are. It would be easier for Maxim to keep track if there are clear guidelines. The game is still new, and we will encounter lots of things that have not been thought of, or revealed yet.

My opinion of what might be fair (capturing a ship is a reward for winning a battle and a gain after all), and add to the autenticity is that a repair cost has to be paid before it can be used.

[Puvel]

Another question is what happens to the ships captured by the Navy escorts?

Would they get added to the Navy so we have more protection next time around?

Or should the members of that faction license it? If so, should there be a moc made of them first or not since it’s an ‘existing' NPC ship?

[Garmadon]

...Btw, is there a list of GMs, authorised key appointment holders somewhere? Yunno, in case we need to talk to someone.

I only know Ska leads our beloved Corrington :p

Good idea to ask, we should probably add a list to the front page of this or one of the other pinned threads!

The leaders are as follows:

Corrington: Ska for Hire, Captain Stabbin, Scarst, and Captain Dee

Eslandola: Kabel, Kai NRG, and Garmadon

Oleon: Sebius I, Phred (though he is more a leader in general than of Oleon in particular), and Blackdeathgr

Sea Rats: Dannylonglegs (not very active though) and Darkdragon

Although other members may have suggestions, these are the ones who will be making and giving out the final decisions in the game

A question to better understand what happens when a ship is captured. Let me pose an example:

I license a warship to prey on enemies in a zone. Here, she captures a trader and carries her to port.

The trader is a class 2 F with a license cost of 100 db's. How does that put me up, gamewise?

Does it put the vessel immediately at my disposal, as if I had licensed her myself? If I should not wish to use her, will there be some way to have her prize-condemned (at a reduced value), or should I sell her to another player (or nation) based on market forces, meaning that they will take over the license?

Or, alternatively, do I simply take over the ship in an unlicensed state, meaning that I will have to license her before use?

I am thinking the first alternative is the most fair (and fun). Possibly, there could be a reduced fee (like 10-25 % of the license cost) representing the cost to refit her after the action.

As for prize-money, I am not sure it should be an option, but if so, it should probably be at a reduced value (like 50 %), as it is the easy choice, rather than negotiating a trade.

And what happens to cargo?

And yes, the answers to these questions will definitely have an effect on how I will be using my future ships!

EDIT: I seem to remember that some larger ships will require an upkeep. I suppose this upkeep will also be required for captured ships, as there will still be a cost to keep them sailing!

I will have to bring this to the attention of Ska, but I am tolerably sure that the first alternative is the correct one - and Sir Stig is completely correct about the index not dictating rules to the leaders, so until the leaders have given their final answer the question, well, it won't have a final answer!

As for ships captured by the factions' fleets, they will be disposed of as the faction (leaders) think best (sold, incorporated into the naval force, etc.)

[Maxim I]

Ofcourse the index is not dictating the rules!

I put the ships as unlicenced because I don't know the official point of view on the matter. Also the ships need some repairing and some official documents will have to be made and blablabla.

It is very important to know that some of the info about the licenced status may be incorrect. When someone post a ship, I can't tell by myself it is licenced or not... The only way I can discover this, is at the end of the month IF it has participated in a MCRA.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Maxim I

[Bregir]

Ofcourse the index is not dictating the rules!

I put the ships as unlicenced because I don't know the official point of view on the matter. Also the ships need some repairing and some official documents will have to be made and blablabla.

It is very important to know that some of the info about the licenced status may be incorrect. When someone post a ship, I can't tell by myself it is licenced or not... The only way I can discover this, is at the end of the month IF it has participated in a MCRA.

You have taken up quite a task here, Maxim! I hope there will be some commercial benefits for you at some points - maybe you could charge a fee from people using the index for commercial purposes!

BoBS sure is a learning experience for all involved!

[Garmadon]

Ofcourse the index is not dictating the rules!

I put the ships as unlicenced because I don't know the official point of view on the matter. Also the ships need some repairing and some official documents will have to be made and blablabla.

It is very important to know that some of the info about the licenced status may be incorrect. When someone post a ship, I can't tell by myself it is licenced or not... The only way I can discover this, is at the end of the month IF it has participated in a MCRA.

Yes, I'm not blaming you for not being able to read people's minds! I was just trying to clarify what you just said - that the fact that a ship is not indexed as licenced does not mean that the leaders have necessarily made a final decision, but that you just wanted to put them there, and then you would incorporate the final decision when it comes along You just said it very well yourself

[Sir Stig]

Ofcourse the index is not dictating the rules!

I put the ships as unlicenced because I don't know the official point of view on the matter. Also the ships need some repairing and some official documents will have to be made and blablabla.

It is very important to know that some of the info about the licenced status may be incorrect. When someone post a ship, I can't tell by myself it is licenced or not... The only way I can discover this, is at the end of the month IF it has participated in a MCRA.

Yeah, I see it is not easy. I will inform you whenever I licence a ship and when something happens to my ships. It would be nice if people would inform if they are going to licence the ship the same month they are posting FBs. It would hopefully make your day easier :)

Seeing the amount of work, unknown areas and obstacles that you encounter, I think you deserve a salary paid by all the factions, for acting as an universal civil servant notary.

[Bart]

Maxim maybe to avoid difficulties you could put 'license status unknown' (or something along those lines)

And when people post a new ship moc in a thread you can just ask it there :D

Your task seems to get bigger and bigger with this index, just keeping up is already a lot of work,

(maybe that is a good thing so MAESTRO doesn't grow too fast

[Vedauwoo]

One thing that could help with both the freebuild forms and the ship licenses.....if there cold be a "transaction number" generated when the form is submitted....

Then, when the freebuild post is referenced, it would also list the license number....and that would serve as a verification that the item in question has indeed been licensed.

I'm not sure the google survey form has any capacity to do this....but something like this could help clarify what is what.