Brethren of the Brick Seas (BoBS) Introduction and Starting Thread

[Tezclatipoca]

I understand cB4 but the Pirates PC would never be able to earn money like that. It would be realistic but not really fair for Pirates PC.

I was more thinking that the amount of NPC pirates was, for this month, to compensate the fact that there are not so much Pirates Players. I hope the NPC will be less when we will see more Players in the MRCA !

Though my ship had no needs of Pirates to sunk...

I have a little question concerning rules for MOCing the results of the MRCA :

Is the build we are making to show the results of MRCA is a special build that could never be considered as a Free build ?

So if I am building 2 freebuilds and a MRCA result I will have 30Dbs ? Is that right ?

Or the MRCA result be one of the free build ? and if yes is it a 10Dbs more than the Freebuild ? (Freebuild = 10 + MRCA result = 10 so 20Dbs on one build) ?

[SkaForHire]

I suppose my concern then would be that you have way too many raiders. If you have as many raiders as traders, then to balance it raiders must have a poor chance of making a capture - or traders must have a high chance of being captured. Even during the Golden Age of Piracy, there were far more merchant ships than pirates. Pirates had a reasonable chance of a prize on a voyage - but a merchant ship had a low chance of ever meeting a pirate. This meant both roles were profitable consistently.

The merchant ships already have a low chance of meeting a pirate -- only 30%, and then the pirate has to catch them. If we brought those numbers down any further, there really wouldn't be a point in predator cruises. It would get rid of part of the game altogether.

[Bregir]

The merchant ships already have a low chance of meeting a pirate -- only 30%, and then the pirate has to catch them. If we brought those numbers down any further, there really wouldn't be a point in predator cruises. It would get rid of part of the game altogether.

I think cb4's point is that he would rather have it the other way around, i.e. fewer raiders but higher risk of meeting one, if there is one in the zone. I sort of support that. It would make route selection more strategic, as you would have to consider where raiders are likely to be, and give player raiders a better chance of an encounter. But as there would be fewer raiders overall, merchants wouldn't really feel the difference in risk.

Keeping the npc traders is fine for me - it makes the seas more alive - but I don't necessarily think there should be raiders in all zones.

I would still maintain the current mechanics for what happens when an encounter occurs, as they seem to work rather well.

[Sir Stig]

The merchant ships already have a low chance of meeting a pirate -- only 30%, and then the pirate has to catch them. If we brought those numbers down any further, there really wouldn't be a point in predator cruises. It would get rid of part of the game altogether.

Since merchant fleets can also capture ships, I don't see much point in predator cruises. Why go for 1 zone, when it seems you can do just as well as escort for traders? Do predator runs get more chances/attempts? If not more zones is better. You can charge for escort service, ...or so I've heard.

[Tezclatipoca]

Yes you can charge for escort service.

Remember, saying that, Eslandola is technically the Faction that is doing most privateering according the lore but we have 3 official warships and 2 captured armed vessels that we could license ! (Who said the biggest fleet of the game by now ;p...) so I don't see our faction hiring privateers but instead of that been hired !

[Maxim I]

Since merchant fleets can also capture ships, I don't see much point in predator cruises. Why go for 1 zone, when it seems you can do just as well as escort for traders? Do predator runs get more chances/attempts? If not more zones is better. You can charge for escort service, ...or so I've heard.

Merchant fleets can't capture merchant vessels. So yes they can capture some warships, but in the end, those warships won't earn a single db as they have no cargo.

Predators can capture merchant vessels and earn the cargo they transport

[Garmadon]

Merchant fleets can't capture merchant vessels. So yes they can capture some warships, but in the end, those warships won't earn a single db as they have no cargo.

Predators can capture merchant vessels and earn the cargo they transport

You are correct about the fact that merchant ships can't capture other merchant ships (otherwise, as mentioned, there isn't much point in a predator run), but you are wrong about the warships - if you capture a warship you will get the licence from it, which, rather than not earning you a single DB, could be very valuable if it is a Class 4 or 5 licence (which you could sell if you are not planning on MOCing the vessel yourself)

But of course predators do have the advantage of being able to take the cargo along with the vessel, besides being far more likely to capture a warship too

[Maxim I]

You are correct about the fact that merchant ships can't capture other merchant ships (otherwise, as mentioned, there isn't much point in a predator run), but you are wrong about the warships - if you capture a warship you will get the licence from it, which, rather than not earning you a single DB, could be very valuable if it is a Class 4 or 5 licence (which you could sell if you are not planning on MOCing the vessel yourself)

But of course predators do have the advantage of being able to take the cargo along with the vessel, besides being far more likely to capture a warship too

Yeah, true! I meant you can't use a warship as a merchants vessel. So yes, you get a warship + licence (nice price for sure), but afterwards, you can't get revenues from that warship as it has no cargo :)

[Mike S]

I have a little question concerning rules for MOCing the results of the MRCA :

Is the build we are making to show the results of MRCA is a special build that could never be considered as a Free build ?

So if I am building 2 freebuilds and a MRCA result I will have 30Dbs ? Is that right ?

Or the MRCA result be one of the free build ? and if yes is it a 10Dbs more than the Freebuild ? (Freebuild = 10 + MRCA result = 10 so 20Dbs on one build) ?

I also want to have confirmation on this as well as being able to do 2 MRCA result builds, one for each of my ships. Also I was thinking of doing a micro build of one of the pirate ship runins, so wanted to make sure that was acceptable as well. If my understanding is correct, I can get a guaranteed 40dbs from builds this month: 2 standard freebuilds and 2 MRCA builds....

[MKJoshA]

Question. What happens to the captain and crew of the captured ships? Is their fate determined by a roll? The newspaper article seem to hint at some sort of prison escape plan.

I think we need to coordinate that amongst ourselves as Pirates.

The merchant ships already have a low chance of meeting a pirate -- only 30%, and then the pirate has to catch them. If we brought those numbers down any further, there really wouldn't be a point in predator cruises. It would get rid of part of the game altogether.

I for one I think you've done a great job with the rules Ska! I'm sure there are ways for it to improve, but overall it seems to be working exactly as it's supposed to. You've mentioned a number of times that the roles this month were exceptional.

[blackdeathgr]

Ghaaaa! I am desperately trying to make up a joke about Sea Rats first MRCA trips but i cannot!!! Any help??? :-P

[Capt Wolf]

I've got a question about owing land (rather than ships): the EGS rules say there is a fee for expanding the size of a previously purchased plot. What is that fee? Is it simply the difference in cost of the two sizes, or is something more tacked on?

[cb4]

I understand cB4 but the Pirates PC would never be able to earn money like that. It would be realistic but not really fair for Pirates PC.

I don't think you do quite understand what I'm saying.

Think of this like the African savannah. You have cheetahs, and you have gazelles. The gazelles eat grass, and the cheetahs eat gazelles.

Grass is always available, and if there were no cheetahs, the gazelles would always gain (they eat grass and store it as fat).

Gazelles can outrun a cheetah most of the time. If a gazelle is chased, it is a partial loss (they expend energy). However, if a gazelle is caught, that's a total loss for the gazelle (they're dead).

If a cheetah can't catch a gazelle on a particular day, it's a partial loss (they expend energy and go hungry).

Now, imagine there were approximately as many cheetah as gazelle. Suppose for the sake of simplicity each cheetah chases one gazelle. In this case, it doesn't matter what the odds are for a cheetah to catch a gazelle.

Suppose the odds are 10%. In this case, 10% of the gazelle will die. This is a pretty insane loss rate and in a few weeks there will be no more gazelle. However, 90% of the cheetah will go hungry. At this rate, most cheetah will starve to death.

Suppose the odds are 30%. In this case, 30% of the gazelle will die. However, 70% of the cheetah will go hungry. This is an even crazier loss rate and in a few days there will be no gazelle. The cheetah will probably survive until there are no more gazelle, then they will also starve to death.

This is why there are 100's of times more gazelle than cheetahs.

The current situation in the MCRA is something like the 10% scenario. There were a large (somewhere between 11 and 33) of NPC raiders out there this month. There were even more raiders if you include the PC ones. Most of them (all except one, in fact), made no money. On the other hand, the capture rate for the traders was pretty high. So the traders would consider this a bad month for the insurance companies - but the raiders are eating their boots. If it had gone differently (after all luck is at play here), then either it could have been a disastrous month for the traders, or an even worse month for the raiders. I am missing information here - I don't know what happened to the NPC traders, but it doesn't really matter. With the number of traders and raiders being so similar, either one role will be profitable and the other won't, or neither role will be profitable. In order for the game to work, they must both be profitable.

I'm not suggesting you need 100's of NPC traders. Obviously we want lots of action and so higher risk in the game is fine. But right now, it's too high for both sides. I think you need around 5-10 times as many traders as raiders.

Edited February 4, 2016 by cb4

[SkaForHire]

I also want to have confirmation on this as well as being able to do 2 MRCA result builds, one for each of my ships. Also I was thinking of doing a micro build of one of the pirate ship runins, so wanted to make sure that was acceptable as well. If my understanding is correct, I can get a guaranteed 40dbs from builds this month: 2 standard freebuilds and 2 MRCA builds....

I almost put "per ship" in there when I wrote it, but I think that is a balancing issue. Those who have enough money to own more ships would get more chances to MOC them. But.. .on the other end, since this is sort of a consolation prize for those who did not do well, I think it is merited. I think I would open it up and say that ANY builder that did not participate can MOC at least ANY ONE action, then those builders with ships can MOC once per ship. That way, at least everyone has access to the first 10DBs. This is not an official rule, until leadership talks about it though. I think the issue of quality may come into play also, so perhaps these MOCs will need approvals.

I've got a question about owing land (rather than ships): the EGS rules say there is a fee for expanding the size of a previously purchased plot. What is that fee? Is it simply the difference in cost of the two sizes, or is something more tacked on?

Currently yes, I will probably create a special form for this, but if I don't be the end of month, you would just fill out another license form and then mail me saying that you are just upgrading so that I don't deduct the full price. (I assume I will be the one tallying next month)

I don't think you do quite understand what I'm saying.

Think of this like the African savannah. You have cheetahs, and you have gazelles. The gazelles eat grass, and the cheetahs eat gazelles.

Grass is always available, and if there were no cheetahs, the gazelles would always gain (they eat grass and store it as fat).

Gazelles can outrun a cheetah most of the time. If a gazelle is chased, it is a partial loss (they expend energy). However, if a gazelle is caught, that's a total loss for the gazelle (they're dead).

If a cheetah can't catch a gazelle on a particular day, it's a partial loss (they expend energy and go hungry).

Now, imagine there were approximately as many cheetah as gazelle. Suppose for the sake of simplicity each cheetah chases one gazelle. In this case, it doesn't matter what the odds are for a cheetah to catch a gazelle.

Suppose the odds are 10%. In this case, 10% of the gazelle will die. This is a pretty insane loss rate and in a few weeks there will be no more gazelle. However, 90% of the cheetah will go hungry. At this rate, most cheetah will starve to death.

Suppose the odds are 30%. In this case, 30% of the gazelle will die. However, 70% of the cheetah will go hungry. This is an even crazier loss rate and in a few days there will be no gazelle. The cheetah will probably survive until there are no more gazelle, then they will also starve to death.

This is why there are 100's of times more gazelle than cheetahs.

The current situation in the MCRA is something like the 10% scenario. There were a large (somewhere between 11 and 33) of NPC raiders out there this month. There were even more raiders if you include the PC ones. Most of them (all except one, in fact), made no money. On the other hand, the capture rate for the traders was pretty high. So the traders would consider this a bad month for the insurance companies - but the raiders are eating their boots. If it had gone differently (after all luck is at play here), then either it could have been a disastrous month for the traders, or an even worse month for the raiders. I am missing information here - I don't know what happened to the NPC traders, but it doesn't really matter. With the number of traders and raiders being so similar, either one role will be profitable and the other won't, or neither role will be profitable. In order for the game to work, they must both be profitable.

I'm not suggesting you need 100's of NPC traders. Obviously we want lots of action and so higher risk in the game is fine. But right now, it's too high for both sides. I think you need around 5-10 times as many traders as raiders.

But, there are twice as many, or more, gazelle than cheatahs. The NPC traders were more than the PC traders this month. I did not include NPC on NPC stats in the account, it just was not important. It would be impossible, without a program, to run even more - it was a four hour calculation as it was. Then there is the write up that takes time. If I had a program where I could test tweaking numbers and rates, then it would be easier to make sweeping changes. On top of this, it is a game simulation, in simulations meant to be fun, you often see exaggeration of real life elements -- in this case the chance that a pirate takes a ship is greater. But, remember, the very small lost at sea game mechanic (10% then a 30% role) is MUCH smaller than real numbers of this age. Getting lost at sea was much more common than pirate attack, but is way less fun in a game situation than knowing you got attacked by pirates.

[Mike S]

I for one I think you've done a great job with the rules Ska! I'm sure there are ways for it to improve, but overall it seems to be working exactly as it's supposed to. You've mentioned a number of times that the roles this month were exceptional.

I'll echo MKJoshA. I think the reason why it may seem a bit off is because we do not see the actual game mechanics. For instance, not one NPC trader got caught so it appears that there weren't many NPC traders which is not the case. Also, as time goes on, and more DBs are accumulated, the whole MRCA dynamic will probably become more engaging.

[TitusV]

Indeed! We should complain less and be very glad we have Ska to do such amazing things for us!

[cb4]

Ska I think you're doing a great job and I'm very glad that you're taking care of all this stuff. I just want the game to be good. If you don't have a computer program to do this... I see your problem. Without that it's very difficult to figure out if the game is balanced, since you'd need to run 10's or 100's of simulations to explore rule changes. Maybe it doesn't matter and crazy outcomes are fine. The trouble is, without having some idea of the risks, it's hard for us players to plan a sound strategy. We have almost no information about how the MCRA works. We know that convoying is less risky. We know that we make more money if we visit ports with higher trade values. We have no idea how profitable privateering is. It doesn't *seem* very profitable but that's just an impression based on very limited data. Privateers don't *seem* to make money. It *seems* like well protected convoys will probably get through, but poorly protected ones (the Sea Rats convoy) probably won't. Players will always try to play in the most optimal way they can, and right now based on our limited information that's going to be forming large, well protected convoys, and building lots of properties.

If you want, I'll build you a simulator - but I would need the rules for that.

[SkaForHire]

If you want, I'll build you a simulator - but I would need the rules for that.

If you really want to give it a shot, be my guest. I guess we can take this to a PM instead of here then.

[Captain Dee]

I think it's impossible to overemphasize the value of the indices in the main Pirates forum. They're full of good Lego examples of just about anything you could possibly want from the age of sail...

...I highly recommend that anyone not familiar with these indices should check them out.

I'm a little late but for anyone interested here is the link to the Main Index in the general Pirates forum.

Land-Based MOC Index

Ship MOC Index

The Wikipedia Links

Plus lots more!

Edited February 4, 2016 by Captain Dee

[SkaForHire]

Here is the adjudication form

[CelesAurivern]

I might have missed this somewhere, but were there any results for those who did bounty/treasure hunt MCRAs?

[SkaForHire]

Not published in the newspaper. but those people's totals were updated.

[dr_spock]

Ghaaaa! I am desperately trying to make up a joke about Sea Rats first mail ng trips but i cannot!!! Any help??? :-P

It is hard to hire good gunnery crew help in the empire.

The seas are a dangerous place. The higher the risks, the bigger the rewards and so is the greater the loss. Sea Rats will be back.

[Sir Stig]

Not published in the newspaper. but those people's totals were updated.

In the scorecard? According to my calculations I should have only 60 total, but 14 dbs/month.

Edit: Actually that's 19 a month, because of the textile monopoly.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Sir Stig

[dr_spock]

In the scorecard? According to my calculations I should have only 60 total, but 14 dbs/month.

Edit: Actually that's 19 a month, because of the textile monopoly.

There is an adjudication form you can use to report discrepancies with your account formally.