The Empire of Corrington: Sign-up and Discussion

[Legostone]

Expect a class 4A up for auction sometime next week! I know many of you have many DBs after this months MRCA and want to make use of them! You can get the license from your government I would bet!

-Jerome Monezterell, Eslandola

[The Sarge]

I just had an idea for uprating ships! Since you are using the same hull presumably (a full rebuild would be very spendy), charge the difference but only give them an increase in guns and crew. Note the new rating with a +1, i.e. 4A+1. Limit it to maybe two steps up. This would make it economical only for captured vessels rather than something done regularly.

[Maxim I]

I am still not sure...

If you got a licence class 4 as captured price, it means you will have to build a ship for that. For normally everyone, you will have to build that ship from scratch. So why not accepting the challenge to build instantly for class 4?

[Legostone]

I just had an idea for uprating ships! Since you are using the same hull presumably (a full rebuild would be very spendy), charge the difference but only give them an increase in guns and crew. Note the new rating with a +1, i.e. 4A+1. Limit it to maybe two steps up. This would make it economical only for captured vessels rather than something done regularly.

That would be great if it would be possible for any ship; disarming ships to get more cargo into them would be pretty cool too.

as in:

5T-3G+2$

-> 3S, 0G, 2C, 7$

You could only add 1/2 of the gun value you remove to the cargo value; rounded up as usual.

Removing a gun level to get more cargo space should be around 40 or 50 DBs per level removed.

And allow warships to be upgraded in guns and crew, max 1 each:

5HA+1G+1C

3S, 6G, 6C, 0$

Upgrading the gun level or crew level should be at least 40 or 50 DBs to stay balanced.

[Maxim I]

That would be great if it would be possible for any ship; disarming ships to get more cargo into them would be pretty cool too.

as in:

5T-3G+2$

-> 3S, 0G, 2C, 7$

You could only add 1/2 of the gun value you remove to the cargo value; rounded up as usual.

Removing a gun level to get more cargo space should be around 40 or 50 DBs per level removed.

And allow warships to be upgraded in guns and crew, max 1 each:

5HA+1G+1C

3S, 6G, 6C, 0$

Upgrading the gun level or crew level should be at least 40 or 50 DBs to stay balanced.

Even this all sounds interesting, let us keep it simple. It is now already difficult for Ska...

[Mike S]

State of our Navy in New Terra Waters, a report by the Admiralty Board:

Queen's Glory: Escort -- Class 5 H A

Pandora: Escort -- Class 5 H A

Paradise: Escort -- Class 4 A

Mars: Escort -- Class 5 H A

Bull Shark: Escort -- Class 5 H A

----

Captured, licensed, but not active until we figure out what to do with it:

Lover’s Quarrel (Class 4A)

Butcher’s Baby (Class 3A)

Whisper (Class 4A)

Shadow (Class 1A)

Friends Forever (Class 4A)

----

Stricken from the Naval List:

Mermaid: Class 5 H A - Taken by the pirate Daniel Doblinhue, Feb 616.

_______________________________________

Immediate Naval Planning: Refit Whisper as a a 5HA at price difference and commission her the HMS Whisper in order to bring our navy up to equivalent strength of last month. (As our new fifth ship, she will not need MOCed)

This leaves:

Lover’s Quarrel (Class 4A)

Butcher’s Baby (Class 3A)

Shadow (Class 1A)

Friends Forever (Class 4A)

The Admiralty suggests keeping the other two 4As in dry docs until they can be MOCed With the option to upgrade their license.

Woodbrose's personal suggestion is to give the 1A license away in a contest form, however, we could keep the 3A in drydock as well until it is MOCed.

I have a question again about escort flotillas which I think may partially affect our decision on when we should upgrade. I'm assuming that once they are MOCed and added to the fleet, they can still be upgraded as long as they are built to the upgrades size. Should two 4A ships in an flotilla have an easy time overpowering 1 5A? If so depending on the number of new ships are added to Corrington's fleet this month, if we can get all the 4A ships MOCed, we may not even need to upgrade them yet.

This being said, I put out a call for volunteers to build for the Queen's navy. If you can build a class 5A ship this month, please put dibs on one of the ships below. I will try to build a 5A as backup as well.

Whisper (Class 4A)

Lover’s Quarrel (Class 4A)

Friends Forever (Class 4A)

Butcher’s Baby (Class 3A)

That also brings me to another question. When MOCed, how many classes higher can you build for a license? For the Butcher's Baby, can it be MOCed for a 5A upgrade or is 4A the highest upgrade it can get?

As for the, Shadow (Class 1A), I really haven't the slightest idea what to do with it.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Mike S

[Captain Dee]

I'm generally with Bregir on all this. I don't like the thought of changing the classes/licenses because it's already complicated enough, and upgrading changes the whole nature of many of the ships.

But if it's going to be done, I recommend going no more than 1 class higher.

I'd like to do a warship; give me a chance to think about it. I'm already too busy...

[Mike S]

I don't see any problem with uprating it. The USF President was built as a 44, and after her capture was uprated to a 50 and then a 60-gun vessel in RN service.

I support the admirals suggestions with one caveat. I don't think we should upgrade the license. This is due to the immersion and realism factors.

I mean, we captured a 4A, so a 4A should be added to the lists. I understand that a 5HA is much more,powerful, but I would rather invest in Navy bonds for another 5HA and then keep these in docks until MOC'ed. (Or sold or given away in contest.)

I am not much for all this fiddling with the licenses. It just doesn't seem right to me.

I might be looking into purchasing plans (a moc) for a warship, should the right offer present itself. Then we might come to an arrangement for one of those licenses.

I'm generally with Bregir on all this. I don't like the thought of changing the classes/licenses because it's already complicated enough, and upgrading changes the whole nature of many of the ships.

But if it's going to be done, I recommend going no more than 1 class higher.

I'd like to do a warship; give me a chance to think about it. I'm already too busy...

I think Sarge has a point. It all depends on the MOC and since there are no MOCs yet, I don't see the problem with upgrading the license. Suppose I had not been able to get the funding for the Sulky and I licensed it as Class 2T because that was all the funding I had. I would be doing myself quite a disservice by under-licensing it if I won't be able to upgrade the license later. Also like Sarge mentioned, a ships rating can be improved by adding guns and crew as well as some other structural modifications. But as I've always stated, I believe that the MOC should back up the license wanted.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Mike S

[Bregir]

The moc obviously needs to back up the license. That is a general rule. My point is more to get diversity and follow the logic of the story. If we capture a 4a, 2t or anything else, that should be reflected in the story and the game. Otherwise, we will not see any diversity in the fleets, as everyone will upgrade to the superior classes.

If we start upgrading, captures becomes little more than just a discount on licenses. I prefer the challenge of building the vessels we actually capture.

That is my perspective. I prefer the building challenges over the EGS-advantages. :)

[Maxim I]

The moc obviously needs to back up the license. That is a general rule. My point is more to get diversity and follow the logic of the story. If we capture a 4a, 2t or anything else, that should be reflected in the story and the game. Otherwise, we will not see any diversity in the fleets, as everyone will upgrade to the superior classes.

If we start upgrading, captures becomes little more than just a discount on licenses. I prefer the challenge of building the vessels we actually capture.

That is my perspective. I prefer the building challenges over the EGS-advantages. :)

I completely agree with Bregir :)

[Kolonialbeamter]

This is foremost a building community. So all decisions taken on that matter should reflect the strive for more and better MOCs. It's already much about grabbing DB over quality building, and it's only early in the game. Let's not speed things up to quickly

Says the guy from the faction behind in score

[SkaForHire]

Whereas you shouldn't be under licensing too far (I think the 1 class is a good rule of thumb), it is in the nature of the game to do so. Perhaps in order to clear port, you had to take on a second trader's cargo to afford the real port fees, so instead of being a 4t, your trade value is only worth 2t. There are many explanations why a ship could be licensed smaller than its MOC.

Also, realistically, vessels were rerigged and refit all the time. Ships could easily bounce around in class, and I don't think it is too much a stretch to improve one level by adding more guns. However, I will go with whatever you guys want to do. I just lament the end of our 5HA. (Maybe we should send all the 4As out to capture her! haha)

As for Mike's question, 2 4As would have a large advantage over a 5A.

[Captain Genaro]

I'm against the idea of being able to upgrade licenses. It may have happened in real life, but this game is not a perfect reflection of real life (e.g. in combat, a 5A with 32 pound cannonades is treated the same as a 5A with 12 pound guns) and this change adds an unnecessary level of complexity. Plus, it seems that this mechanic would simply be exploited by people who want to build a smaller ship and upgrade its license. That doesn't seem fair to builders who actually take the time and effort to go about building a new, larger ship.

[Bregir]

We can auction off the 4As to pay for the 5A if it is the money we are missing! ;)

However, I prefer keeping them. And building them! If we could moc them, they would be a powerful fleet (at no cost) for the crown!

As for changing class, I would at least expect the moc and story to reflect this. Mounting new guns, refitting her rigging, or whatever. There has to be an IC reasoning for it.

(I am still against relicensing, especially for these vessels captured.)

[CelesAurivern]

I'm generally with Bregir on all this. I don't like the thought of changing the classes/licenses because it's already complicated enough, and upgrading changes the whole nature of many of the ships.

But if it's going to be done, I recommend going no more than 1 class higher.

I'd like to do a warship; give me a chance to think about it. I'm already too busy...

I have to agree that upgrades if done, need to be kept in moderation.

It does not make sense to build a class 5, licence it as class 0 just to get it out there, then upgrade it to 5 again when you can afford it.

Neither does it make sense for a built class 1 to be upgraded to a class 5. It's physically impossible.

Tyrion Lannister does not just turn into Gregor Clegane.

The moc obviously needs to back up the license. That is a general rule. My point is more to get diversity and follow the logic of the story. If we capture a 4a, 2t or anything else, that should be reflected in the story and the game. Otherwise, we will not see any diversity in the fleets, as everyone will upgrade to the superior classes.

If we start upgrading, captures becomes little more than just a discount on licenses. I prefer the challenge of building the vessels we actually capture.

That is my perspective. I prefer the building challenges over the EGS-advantages. :)

I think a lot of higher level class ships changed hands this time round. Lots of class 4s.

While these are by no means easy to build, and neither does everyone have the resources to build an endless stream of ships.

If our faction were to somehow build and upgrade them, we'd have another three class 5As for the Mar MRCA.

(If we were to go digital and have unlimited resources, it can be done.)

Mind, we have already saved over 1500 DBs in licences alone! (minus 450 for loosing a 5HA)

So I ask you: would it make sense as a faction to build up a convoy of 5As then go ship hunting rather than trading?

It certainly seems more lucrative >_>

Ships Captured:

Fallen Angel and Wringe I (Both ESL) by pirate Zublious Van Wreck in the Ghost Harvester

La Oleon (Class 3A) captured by Sea Rat escort, The Viper (SR)

Mardier privavateer Lover’s Quarrel (Class 4A), taken by the HMS Mars (COR)

Pirate Butcher’s Baby (Class 3A) taken by HMS Queens Glory (COR)

Pirate The Clear Conscience (Class 1A) taken by the Travoa (ESL)

Pirate Poseidon’s Breath (Class 2A) Taken by HMS ELtina (OL)

Unknown origin ship, Great Scott (Class 3A) captured by White Skull (SR)

Notorious pirate, Val Gibbons and his ship The Roach (Class 5LA) taken by the HMS Granoleon (OL)

The Garvey privateer Wisper (Class 4A) taken by the HMS Pandora (COR)

Pirate Holder’s Secret (Class 2A) taken by Queen of Terrelli (ESL)

Vessel of unknown origin, Blessed Angel (Class 4A) taken by King of Mardier (ESL)

Unknown origin vessel Shadow (Class 1A) Taken by HMS Pandora (COR)

Pirate Puffin’s Curse (Class 3A) taken by HMS Granoleon (OL)

HMS Mermaid (Class 5HA) (COR) taken by pirate Daniel Doblinhue’s Friends Forever

Friends Forever, sans Dobinhue, (Class 4A) captured by HMS Pandora (COR)

Oleon trader La Cell captured by Madrice Privateer L’Olius in the Crooked Sparrow

[Captain Dee]

If we were at war then yes, privateering could be very lucrative... for all parties. But I think we'll be facing serious conflict if we just go "ship hunting."

How much detail is wanted on the ships in question? I really liked Ska's "Dancing Dogfish" despite its basic design and construction.

Edit: wrong ship name

Edited March 5, 2016 by Captain Dee

[Tomsche]

Now this might be a crazy thought, and I`m ducking for cover for the hates that are going to come this way, BUT

what if both the danger on the seas, AND the income from trades would be lowered? Would we have this discussion?

Say that, unless you undertake really high risk routes spanning a multitude of zones (say 3+ or so), you are relatively safe to cruise the seas in your little cog, and make a steady income that month equal to about owning a property (like, between 3 to 7 DB for cargo, compared to the steady 5 for a property), instead of the hundreds that have been thrown into the game now over these first two months. It would take longer to build something big unless you invest wisely, heck you could even start a whole lvl 0 trade fleet in certain zones for income, without worrying you`ll need to replace half the fleet every month.

That way, big ships become a bit more difficult to obtain, and once you have them, they aren`t likely to go down on the first voyage. Something like a `safe zone` for low yielding trade runs if you get what I mean. That would also make it a more intresting position to either become a shipping mogul like Bregir Onassis, or a Governor of your own little bowl of dust on some backwater island where chocolate bars grow on trees.

What you have now is that the `game` is already taking over on the builds in some cases, as a good few are already looking towards wrangling the most DBs out of there builds, instead of building something and seeing just what you can do with whatever is earned? This game is great, the setting is lovely, but perhaps some parts, like the boats, are just going `to fast`. When it launched, 450 seemed an ocean away ( ) to get the money for, now they are more common then a lowly lvl 1 trader, as the first two classes, which gave you a free license to get you going and form your backbone (at least, i guess that was the intention when it was designed) are just past by as a necessary little evil on route to the big ones.

It would definitly make Ska`s life a bit easier as well if he can just point out a lvl 2 trader going from port X to port Y, and just needs to do a single roll for the variable of (LOW) income that ship hauls, and might help towards the actual locations of the ships later on. Of course, if newspapers rumour about hurricanes and you sail straight in, then that`s all your fault if the crew and cargo come on first name basis with the fishes...

PS: I`m not in favor of the up and downgrading of licenses of captured ships tbh, after reading a lot of opinions. If you want a Class 4 warship and a class 4 trader, build one moc. First picture her with guns, marines and the whole shazam, then change her details to sailors and cargo boxes. Then make two topics and buy two licenses... (well, that`s my idea on that) making her actually two different ships from one `base` build. BoBS very own Creator set as you can say

[Capn Frank]

I don't agree with up licensing of any type, but down licensing is fine when you can't afford the DBs. I think all up licensing should be backed up with a MOC. Add a mid section or two to make it longer or show the same sized vessel with additional guns.

[Legostone]

I don't agree with up licensing of any type, but down licensing is fine when you can't afford the DBs. I think all up licensing should be backed up with a MOC. Add a mid section or two to make it longer or show the same sized vessel with additional guns.

I would agree that only built vessels should be upgradable, not the non-built government and captured vessels. I feel like that could otherwise throw off balance somewhat (It is not like all factions are currently balanced out, you Corringtoners could take out half of Oleons fleet in one MRCA if you really wanted to do so...), as Governments could even easier get 5HA ships... I also feel like there are to many of those ships out there (as in, caught every month)

[Mike S]

I don't agree with up licensing of any type, but down licensing is fine when you can't afford the DBs. I think all up licensing should be backed up with a MOC. Add a mid section or two to make it longer or show the same sized vessel with additional guns.

So here is the deal Ladies and Gentlemen. I was thinking about upgrading my Sulky Harlequin to 5F from 4T2 because I had originally planned on licensing it as a 5F but lacked the funds. The ship is as big and probably bigger than a lot of the current 5Fs but if there is a rule against upgrading a license then its a no go. You can't say yes to my ship and no to a ship that can be MOCed as the class it will be upgrading its license to. Just for the record Bregir is against both, but others it seems are fine with my ship but not for the capture.

[gedren_y]

For under-licensing I think you need to make it clear what the actual level the ship is when you post it, and that it is being under-licensed. That way you can purchase the higher license later without having to affect the existing build.

[Bregir]

An addendum to Mike's comment:

I am not against uplicensing the Sulky Harlequin because of the (beautiful) moc, but for the other reasons stated in my earlier posts. My opinion would be, that is a (substantial) build with a corresponding story explains and shows how and why it is upgraded, then I think it could be acceptable. But it should be rare, and I don't like it for captured ships - they should first be build and used for what they are.

[Maxim I]

I am agreeing to much with Bregir lately... hahaha :p

Captured ships should stay the way they were captured. Otherwise it will end with Corrington upgrading the licence of the 1A to 5HA, just because they are way too rich (ooh wait, I am in the Corrington Topic, sorry guys, never mind hahaha).

For the Sulky Harlequin, the ship is more class 5 then most class 5 tradeships atm, so I agree

As I have now access to the licence sheets of Ska (don't worry, I can't change data, just view it), may I suggest there is a commission of for example me, Bregir and a third one (preferable someone from Oleon) who has to agree if the upgraded licence fits the built ship?

This way, we are not giving Ska too much work (except correcting a licence if we agreed the new licence doesn't fit the ship).

As I am the one updating the ship index, I have a good idea already how a class should look like (taking someones limited collection of bricks in mind).

Edited March 5, 2016 by Maxim I

[Kolonialbeamter]

As I have now access to the licence sheets of Ska (don't worry, I can't change data, just view it), may I suggest there is a commission of for example me, Bregir and a third one (preferable someone from Oleon) who has to agree if the upgraded licence fits the built ship?

Should this be decided, then Oleon would agree to this commission (poor Sea-Rats, though). Vote would have to be unanimous, I assume

Also, if this was to be allowed, Mike's 'Sulky Harlequin' would rather make a Class 5T than a 5F, 'but' a very fine one.

[Garmadon]

Now this might be a crazy thought, and I`m ducking for cover for the hates that are going to come this way, BUT

what if both the danger on the seas, AND the income from trades would be lowered? Would we have this discussion?

Say that, unless you undertake really high risk routes spanning a multitude of zones (say 3+ or so), you are relatively safe to cruise the seas in your little cog, and make a steady income that month equal to about owning a property (like, between 3 to 7 DB for cargo, compared to the steady 5 for a property), instead of the hundreds that have been thrown into the game now over these first two months. It would take longer to build something big unless you invest wisely, heck you could even start a whole lvl 0 trade fleet in certain zones for income, without worrying you`ll need to replace half the fleet every month.

That way, big ships become a bit more difficult to obtain, and once you have them, they aren`t likely to go down on the first voyage. Something like a `safe zone` for low yielding trade runs if you get what I mean. That would also make it a more intresting position to either become a shipping mogul like Bregir Onassis, or a Governor of your own little bowl of dust on some backwater island where chocolate bars grow on trees.

What you have now is that the `game` is already taking over on the builds in some cases, as a good few are already looking towards wrangling the most DBs out of there builds, instead of building something and seeing just what you can do with whatever is earned? This game is great, the setting is lovely, but perhaps some parts, like the boats, are just going `to fast`. When it launched, 450 seemed an ocean away ( ) to get the money for, now they are more common then a lowly lvl 1 trader, as the first two classes, which gave you a free license to get you going and form your backbone (at least, i guess that was the intention when it was designed) are just past by as a necessary little evil on route to the big ones.

It would definitly make Ska`s life a bit easier as well if he can just point out a lvl 2 trader going from port X to port Y, and just needs to do a single roll for the variable of (LOW) income that ship hauls, and might help towards the actual locations of the ships later on. Of course, if newspapers rumour about hurricanes and you sail straight in, then that`s all your fault if the crew and cargo come on first name basis with the fishes...

I'm afraid that if you want a safe way to build up your fortune you'll have to become a landlubber, sir!

The subject of over-licencing and upgrading previously under-licenced ships is being discussed by the leadership, so you can hold your horses (ships? ) a bit while it is being hammered out