Unreleased/Cancelled LEGO Sets

[Digger of Bricks]

9 minutes ago, 1974 said:

It's something I (and Walter Whiteside) created, It's based on a theme from 1989 that never got released. I've named it GREY:tron as it's from the same era as M:tron, Blacktron etc

Link to the Flickr group :

https://www.flickr.com/groups/3602763@N25/

Our intention is to make designs from all thre unreleased space themes. There's quite a few of them :

http://www.blacktronite.com/prototype_sets.htm

The monorail was called Seatron, not Aquanauts btw and is actually an underwater/ space crossover. Something TLG never officially did

I've been trying to hunt down those trans-red quaterdomes for ages ..

Cheers,

Ole

So wait a minute, are all those photos from that link to the site Blacktronite real unreleased set photos? 

I recognize the Seatron and Europa set pictures, but have never even seen the rest of those! I mean, train set prototypes?! 

[Trekkie99]

26 minutes ago, 1974 said:

It's something I (and Walter Whiteside) created, It's based on a theme from 1989 that never got released. I've named it GREY:tron as it's from the same era as M:tron, Blacktron etc

"Snip"

Link to the Flickr group :

https://www.flickr.com/groups/3602763@N25/

Our intention is to make designs from all thre unreleased space themes. There's quite a few of them :

http://www.blacktronite.com/prototype_sets.htm

The monorail was called Seatron, not Aquanauts btw and is actually an underwater/ space crossover. Something TLG never officially did

I've been trying to hunt down those trans-red quaterdomes for ages ..

"Snip"

Cheers,

Ole

Wow.

Greytron?

That's... Cool! 

And those space police two sets? And those train sets? OMG! Why weren't these released? These are awesome! Thank you so much for sharing that! I would have never found it otherwise!

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by LegoMonorailFan

[1974]

Yes, those are all genuine LEGO sets (blacktronite.com is my site). I've found the pics on various sites but I believe most of them originates from Brick Journal. There's been several threads about them here on EB btw

Edit : Knock ya self out for a few hours :

https://www.google.dk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=site:eurobricks.com+prototype+sets

Tons of cool unreleased parts in those sets! I'd REALLY like to get my hands on those bottom panels for 2409 (the large quarter domes) as seen in trans-red in the grey Space set and also in dark grey in the Castle mine

The brown crocodille 12V train is very cool, much more detailed than anything from that era (I dig the 3 wide doors). TLG could indeed make AFOL oriented stes back then but I guess they didn't see any market at that time

Cheers,

Ole

Edited July 10, 2017 by 1974

[antp]

Nice! Some of these photos are new to me too

[whitswj]

/

Edited December 3, 2021 by whitswj

[TheLazyChicken]

Aww man it's a real shame that the hammerhead shark never got produced! Really wish it had!

[Capparezza]

20 hours ago, 1974 said:

It's something I (and Walter Whiteside) created, It's based on a theme from 1989 that never got released. I've named it GREY:tron as it's from the same era as M:tron, Blacktron etc

Link to the Flickr group :

https://www.flickr.com/groups/3602763@N25/

Our intention is to make designs from all thre unreleased space themes. There's quite a few of them :

http://www.blacktronite.com/prototype_sets.htm

*snip*

Cheers,

Ole

Yeah, that's it. So it was planned but unfortunately dumped. Those locos are looking very nice too. Thanks for that one, Ole. Gives me a little inspiration what to do with all that Train parts I've bought recently

[whitswj]

/

Edited December 3, 2021 by whitswj

[Trekkie99]

13 minutes ago, whitswj said:

BTW, I will eventually start a new thread to announce the flickr group for prototype/ unreleased set inspired MOCs. I will do this at a point when I have a few different themes done. Its a quiet group right now. I'm not sure what the EB rules are about those kind of announcements though. I will also announce on other forums. 

Sounds cool.

[Hinckley]

On 7/10/2017 at 7:42 AM, 1974 said:

It's something I (and Walter Whiteside) created, It's based on a theme from 1989 that never got released. I've named it GREY:tron as it's from the same era as M:tron, Blacktron etc

 

Link to the Flickr group :

https://www.flickr.com/groups/3602763@N25/

Our intention is to make designs from all thre unreleased space themes. There's quite a few of them :

http://www.blacktronite.com/prototype_sets.htm

The monorail was called Seatron, not Aquanauts btw and is actually an underwater/ space crossover. Something TLG never officially did

I've been trying to hunt down those trans-red quaterdomes for ages ..

 

Cheers,

Ole

Thank you for all of the info.

[Carrera124]

On 26.8.2016 at 8:30 PM, davee123 said:

My guess is that by 1985/1986, the designers were probably starting to work on the new 9V system, and they were releasing their final wave of 4.5V and 12V sets. The new "brick connections" used by 9V came out in 1986, and were followed shortly by the monorail in 1987, and the new 9V trains in 1991.

 

I don't think so, because of 2 reasons:

1. In 1989, many boxes of the 12V supplemental line-up (rails, conducting rails, switches, motor, lights kits, even the station 7824) got a major overhaul. Styrofoam was dropped, and the sizes of the boxes were changed. These boxes can be identified because of a double copyright (1980, 1989) printed on them. Without any doubt, these changes caused costs. Maybe there were requirements we don't know, but I think no one would spend that money if you already made a decision to drop the complete system.
2. Also in 1989, the Technic Universal series was renewed. Especially the set 8054 was introduced, and it still had an 4,5v-motor. In 1990, it had been replaced by 8064 with 9v-motor. I guess no one would introduce a new 4.5v technic universal set if there is already a decision to go for 9v in 1990. Instead, I'd continued 8055 for one year, or otherwise I'd go for 1989 without a technic universal motorized set and add this later in 1990.

Imho, the complete switch to the 9v system must have happened rather short before 1990.

[davee123]

On 7/15/2017 at 1:27 PM, Carrera124 said:

Maybe there were requirements we don't know, but I think no one would spend that money if you already made a decision to drop the complete system.

I'm not sure that would have mattered all that much.

The LEGO company back in the 80s and 90s was obsessed with quality.  They would (for instance) go out of their way to use advanced printing techniques that other companies couldn't replicate, even though the kids didn't really care about the result.  All to get a higher quality product!

Also, we know the development chain took on average around 3 years back then.  In fact, for some things (like new systems like 9v) it would take even longer, since it's not just new sets, it's totally new systems that have to comply with electronics standards in many countries.  Much trickier to do.  They almost assuredly knew that the 9v system was going to replace 12v and 4.5v by 1989, probably much earlier.

Given how long it takes to develop a system like 9v, my guess is they probably started work on it in the early 80s, probably in the 1980-1984 ballpark.  They probably sat down and thought about replacing ALL their motors with 9v motors-- the only question was how to roll it out.

My guess would be that competition with Tyco forced their hand.  The LEGO plan of attack back then was typically to come out with higher quality stuff in order to compete.  And the place where the US market was most competitive was the LEGOLAND market (space/castle/town).  LEGO probably set out to include their new-fangled electronics system in those sets first as a way of competing with Tyco early.  Note that in 1986, when the 9v system launches, there's no wires, no motors, no wall-plugs, no "forwards/backwards" controllers for the battery boxes.  Very basic stuff.

The question is, then, what would've happened if Tyco hadn't pushed them?  My guess would be that you'd see a faster transition to 9v.  Tyco wasn't putting out train systems (to my knowledge), and trains weren't a big seller in the US.  So it makes sense that it woudl get transitioned last.  But if Tyco wasn't there, maybe 9v would've happened in the train system in 1989 rather than 1991?  Who knows?  But my guess is that rather than transition over the course of 6 years, it probably would've been a more condensed transition, but probably would've happened later.

On 7/15/2017 at 1:27 PM, Carrera124 said:

Also in 1989, the Technic Universal series was renewed. Especially the set 8054 was introduced, and it still had an 4,5v-motor.

I guess I'm not really surprised by that either-- one of the other things that LEGO frequently seemed to do is flush out old inventory by putting old elements into sets.  It wouldn't surprise me if they partially did that to clean out their inventory of 4.5v Technic motors and battery boxes.

If LEGO was going to churn out the 9v system in 1990 for Technic (which they did), they DEFINITELY knew that they were going to do that in 1989.  Probably much, much earlier, like 1987 or 1986, even.  As above, I'd argue that it was likely in their plan all along to overhaul their electronics to all conform to a standard (which they did), as opposed to before where it was a mix of different connectors, battery boxes, and voltages.

DaveE

[Carrera124]

On 27.7.2017 at 9:13 PM, davee123 said:

Also, we know the development chain took on average around 3 years back then. 

How do we know that (sources)?

one of the other things that LEGO frequently seemed to do is flush out old inventory by putting old elements into sets.

I cannot think of any example for that - can you give some examples?

It wouldn't surprise me if they partially did that to clean out their inventory of 4.5v Technic motors and battery boxes.

That makes no sense. To do so, it would not have been necessary to create a new set. They could also have produced another batch of 8055.

[davee123]

12 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

How do we know that (sources)?

Hmm, that's been sort of an established fact for as long as I can remember-- probably since the early 2000s when LEGO Direct started communicating with LEGO hobbyists.  Maybe even earlier?  At the time, the design process was speeding up to be more reactionary.  Specific sources, though?  I'm not sure.  The best sources would probably be Jens Nygaard Knudsen or Bjarne Tveskov.  I took a quick look through the few online interviews that I could find, but didn't see anything directly.  However, there is a photo from 1985 of a preliminary Blacktron design, which was released in the US in late 1987 (September, I think?)-- which is evidence that it's at least a 2 year cycle.  We also know from an interview with Bjarne that Blacktron specifically was accelerated due to pressure from Tyco's "aggressive" 1986 lineup.  So if 2 years is considered fast, it lines up with the cited 3 year cycle.  But pretty sure we've heard the 3-year development cycle for many years.  In fact, I seem to recall that people were still citing that fact in the early 2000s, which LEGO corrected us on, because they had since trimmed down the cycle to be quicker.

I'm not sure when the transition to faster cycles happened, though.  LEGO was becoming internally digital throughout the 80s and 90s.  I know in the late 1990s, they were transitioning to digital instructions (source: LEGO Life Magazine), and in "ye olde days" the most expensive part of the process was the instructions (source: LEGO concept designer).  They had to be photographed step-by-step, and then hand-drafted into instructions.  And their digital database of parts starts at 1997, which indicates that some sort of transition was happening then.  And 1998 was when Poul Plougmann started as COO (source: Brick by Brick), and probably when he was revamping the design process (he supposedly switched out a lot of designers in exchange for new ones who were from the general toy industry, rather than people who had worked for LEGO).  So... I'd guess the transition to a faster design cycle was probably in the late 1990s or early 2000s.

12 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

I cannot think of any example for that - can you give some examples?

Sure-- Samsonite was notorious for doing it.  In fact, there was a recent auction going for a Samsonite product that was more-or-less random minifigs who were surplus stock!

But back to LEGO, they did it for the color change, definitely.  For a while, sets were shipped with not only just old colors, but a mix of old and new gray.

The more interesting one that I've heard suggested was for the 6018 Battle Dragon, and possibly for other Black Knight/Black Falcon sets that were in the same vicinity, but we've never gotten confirmation.  It would certainly make sense, though-- LEGO started transitioning from "Crusaders vs Black Falcons" to "Crusaders vs Black Knights vs Forestmen" in 1987/1988, and they appeared to be phasing out the use of the Black Falcon torsos and shields.  The assumption is that LEGO was trying to make the Crusaders the "good guys" and the Black Knights the "bad guys", and the Black Falcons didn't really have a place in there-- they were just going through stock.  But that one's speculation.  As was Time Cruisers in 1996, re-using things like Aquazone elements (although I'm less inclined to believe that one, since it was so close in launch date to the original Aquazone).

13 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

That makes no sense. To do so, it would not have been necessary to create a new set. They could also have produced another batch of 8055.

 

I'm not sure why it makes no sense-- the parts between 8055 and 8054 are pretty distinct.

But that doesn't really matter anyway-- I'm just throwing out a speculative explanation.  I think the bottom line remains:  I can't imagine it was some sort of surprise or rapid transition for LEGO from the 4.5v motors to the 9v ones, or that it wasn't planned out long in advance.  I don't think LEGO developed a brand new electric system (which by 1991 was used universally in LEGOLAND, Technic, and Trains) and decided after-the-fact to incorporate it elsewhere.  I think they knew from day 1 that it was the goal to replace all the other electric systems with the new one.  I guess I don't see why that would strike you as doubtful.

DaveE

[Carrera124]

Well, for me it's doubtful because there are too many hints that speak against that:

+ many new 12V box designs in 1989
+ new technic set in 1989
+ the fact that the electric 9V System as such was in series since 1987, so they just had to adapt the train motor and the rails,and not to re-invent a complete new 9V system.

 

Samsonite - afaik - did things and decisions on their own, imho that can't be representative for Lego headquarter in Denmark.

And the color change - yes, it is natural that they flush old the old Colors in this case. But the color change was a huge thing and surely it was not business as usual, therefore not represenative either.

[Wolfpack Bandit]

Has anyone ever tried to recreate the prototype Europa sets? I just love those buildings.

[paul_delahaye]

I thought I read somewhere that the reason for change from 12v to 9v was forced by the toy regulator.  I thing I read that the boughtin rules saying a childs toy should be over 9v, hence the dropping of the 12v line?

Could be wrong, and I have no evidence of this.

 

[Carrera124]

Well, at least in Europa, other toys operated with 12v (ore even more) still after 1991 until today. E.g. model train sets or slotcar tracks. And some of them are explicitly marked as "toy" (= suitable for kids 6+ or 8+ years), while other ones (imho the minor group) are marked as "modeling" (=suitable for kids 14+ years).

[LEGO Historian]

I wouldn't read too much into anything that TLG does.... and try to make logic out of it.  They've done so many things in the past that make absolutely no sense, that I sometimes wonder if different parts of the company were at one time run like little fiefdoms (or maybe it was in the past)... and they were not always on the same page for the greater good of the company. 

Also, LEGO never threw anything away.... so if they had some new boxes produced, but not yet put into production... they weren't going to throw them away because they decided to make a big change in their individual systems.   As long as items were still in inventory... TLG continued to produce older products, even though new ones were ready to come online.

[paul_delahaye]

1 hour ago, LEGO Historian said:

LEGO never threw anything away.... 

 

Well apart from the monorail track moulds....... 

Edited August 14, 2017 by paul_delahaye

[LEGO Historian]

1 hour ago, paul_delahaye said:

 

Well apart from the monorail track moulds....... 

Don't get me started....   .... there's the Cypress tree moulds....the old rail cap moulds.... and on and on.... 

[antp]

22 hours ago, paul_delahaye said:

 

Well apart from the monorail track moulds....... 

They didn't throw them "away", doesn't the legend says they kept them close by burying them in concrete?

[Digger of Bricks]

 

[Carrera124]

The greatest mystery is, why did they put a black 12v motor into 7865, when 4 of 5 upgradeable sets would require a red motor

[Digger of Bricks]