Asuka Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 BUILD ON! *y* Never hire or promote in your own image. It is foolish to replicate your strength and idiotic to replicate your weakness. It is essential to employ, trust, and reward those whose perspective, ability, and judgment are radically different from yours. It is also rare, for it requires uncommon humility, tolerance, and wisdom.Dee W. Hock, Fast Company ;-)
Scouty Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Simple explaination. It's Fox News. :-P I've seen other places do the same. Ah, well :-$ . By the way, that school had a huge pile of Lego bricks. It could swallow one of the kids there. Why would they ban them *wacko* X-D .
Opproperaar Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 It's OK, this is the community forum, let's go wild!Nah, on second thought.... let's not.... BUILD ON! Oh great..., on no wait crap Dammit, On one hand I'm always in to discuss politics, on the other hand, those discussions always get heated up so much I can't speak to that person anymore, which 'd be a shame here. Ah screw it, vid's still funny though, and I've seen it four times already *y*
Zarkan Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 What the megabloks were these people thinking! Notice how this is FOX news, which is usually a bunch of propaganda, actually agreed that these idiots are probably legally skitzofrentic! Communism? Give me a break! Heck these kids are lucky they get lego! I never got to play with them when I was in school Okay, so suppose you are at a friends house and playing with his legos, and then his mom comes in and says "your buildings must be no more than 20X30 studs each, you divide every type of brick evenly between each other, and all buildings belong to me, the goverment, so if I say that your little brother can destroy one of your buildings and build a military center on it for the goverment, you must comply." Is that fair? :-| Seriously, this is just ridiculous, and yet you seem to be agreeing with those wacko teachers. And the network has nothing to do with it. These kind of things are everywhere, and this sure isn't the only orginization that's reported on crazy people with comunistic-like agendas. *wacko*
Joebot Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Anyway, this is what will happen if a liberal/Democrat becomes president! Legos are the toy equivalent of Boy Scouts to the Dems(Boy Scouts = a communist paramilitary orginization |-/ :-| ). I just can't believe they banned them. I mean, when will the kids learn about ownership? I know sharing is a good thing, but this has too far, IMO. *sad* Wow, that seems like a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Is Guiliani going to use that in his campaign materials? "Vote for the Democrats and watch your Lego blocks get banned!" I love the so-called "journalist's" mocking tone of voice as he's talking. Fox News doesn't even pretend to have any objective journalistic integrity anymore, do they?
the enigma that is badger Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 As incendiary as both sides (the school and FOX's reporting) have been in this debacle, it strikes me more as an issue of framing more than anything else. Schools all over the world have issues with "sharing" involving popular toys, and most find a way to handle it in a way that doesn't seem to mandate a particular political ideology. If there was an issue with sharing certain popular LEGO bricks, the teacher(s) could have easily told the class they had to incorporate them into their city design such that everyone was using them equally (ie everyone contributes the building of a city airport that uses the popular bricks). This way each student could feel as if they had "used" the brick in a model they had helped build. The students could then make use of the less in-demand items for their own personal creations. In regards to building size and height restrictions, I'm surprised the faculty don't appreciate children more often than not simply reflect the world around them in their play. I've seen some particularly funny (and embarrasing to their parents) videos in child development courses were children play out some very personal conversations and/or interactions they've seen between adults. The importance of observation in how children learn about their place in the world and to act in it cannot be overemphasized. Given that this school is in Seattle, which features residential homes of all sizes, apartment building, and skyscrapers, is it any surprise children would build housing of different sizes? If the teacher wanted to use their creations as a way to illustrate we all live in different places but it's not where we live but how we treat other people that's more important in determining if we're a "good" person or not to counterbalance what they perceive to be the indoctrination of materialism, that's perfectly fine, but to force the students' to only build homes within certain sizes is frankly ridiculous and clearly limiting the expression of their students' imaginations. Of course, FOX News, bastion of level-headed reporting that it is, doesn't make these points but instead presents us with the equivalent of someone pointing at the school and yelling "Commies! Dirty Commies! Hippies! All of them, hippies!" which adds precisely nothing to the discourse and only seeks to inflame matters. I love the so-called "journalist's" mocking tone of voice as he's talking. Fox News doesn't even pretend to have any objective journalistic integrity anymore, do they? They did to begin with? badger
Lt. Col. Thok Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Wtf? Capitalist...Lego? Jeez, even though Denmark is near Russia, doesn't mean...?? :-/ Weird.
Deinonychus Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Wow...just...wow... Marx and Engles would be proud :-|
Joebot Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 As incendiary as both sides (the school and FOX's reporting) have been in this debacle, it strikes me more as an issue of framing more than anything else. Schools all over the world have issues with "sharing" involving popular toys, and most find a way to handle it in a way that doesn't seem to mandate a particular political ideology. <snippage> badger Dude, terrific post. Very well said. I'm as liberal as they come, and I can't possibly defend these teachers' actions. It was a really poorly thought out response. If they were having issues with the students' behaviors, there had to be a better way to address the problem. Banning Lego blocks is just absurd. It's not the Lego blocks that are the problem, it's the students' assumptions about power and ownership that are the problem. A good, creative teacher would find a healthy, productive way to deal with that. That being said, this kind of crap on Fox drives me up the wall. Nowhere in this piece did they interview any teachers, school officials, or school board members. How about an interview with a parent? Maybe a child development specialist?? Nope. All we got was an interview with Jim Copland from the Manhattan Institute. What's the Manhattan Institute? A right-wing think tank. They've got a great big quote from Rudy Guiliani across the top of their website. What does Jim Copland know about child development?? I have no idea. So, before every points their fingers and gasps in horror and outrage at the filthy commies, let's all take a minute to consider the messenger, realize that this was a bunch of sensationalistic nonsense, and then we can all shrug and laugh and move on with our lives.
Starwars4J Posted October 31, 2007 Author Posted October 31, 2007 Guys, I just posted this so we could get a laugh at a bunch of teachers overreacting, let's try not to make this a huge political debate :-D That being said, this kind of crap on Fox drives me up the wall. Nowhere in this piece did they interview any teachers, school officials, or school board members. How about an interview with a parent? Maybe a child development specialist?? Nope. To be fair they said the teachers and school board declined commentary.
Lt. Col. Thok Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 Meh. I still think that it is a silly notion. But if you say so, we won't turn this into a debate.
SirNadroj Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) That being said, this kind of crap on Fox drives me up the wall. Nowhere in this piece did they interview any teachers, school officials, or school board members. How about an interview with a parent? Maybe a child development specialist?? Nope. Amen! Finally, someone is aware of Fox News, or as I like to call it Faux Noise and their nonsense! ;-) Guys, I just posted this so we could get a laugh at a bunch of teachers overreacting, let's try not to make this a huge political debate :-DTo be fair they said the teachers and school board declined commentary. Wow, I didn't start the political debate this time! :-D To reponsd to your second point: Yes, but even so, that just reinforces the fact that it is their opinon. Personally, for once, I agree with them about the ban being ridicuolous, but they don't have any primary sources. I'm surprised they didn't pull one of their poll gags and ask the people of america what they think! :-D Who cares what america thinks? X-D (that is hypothetical! ;-) ) But that's all I've got to say! Thanks! ;-) Edited October 31, 2007 by SirNadroj
Starwars4J Posted October 31, 2007 Author Posted October 31, 2007 I didn't say you can't talk about it :-D Just no getting into arguments about "Communism sucks!" "No way! Communism is the best!" etc. The notion of banning lego is still ludicrous...as if that was capitalist propaganda :-|
natelite Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 fox news is owned by the murdoch clan, a huge neocon. it's the only news network that GW Bush views. is it any wonder then that the so called "news" is also so right-winged? *wacko* *wacko* just you wait...WSJ is gonna go right too. they were just bought out by murdoch. :-/ there goes the last bastian of professional journalism.
Corvus Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 Banning LEGO is like banning air. :-| I'm on a School computer at the moment, so I'll watch this video when I get home. It sounds funny yet sad and pathetic.. It's hard to be objective when Lego is involved. Just last week a student presented a project he'd built with Lego (I encourage this), which I thought was cool. Upon closer inspection, however, I found that he'd mixed Lego and Megabloks together. The horror! Quick, teacher, give him an F! :-P I've done something similar to this. I had been assigned a poster on Romeo and Juliet, which was supposed to include something that relates to certain scenes. So, I set up my camera and backdrop, made some minifigs, took the pics, and edited some of the photos. I think my teacher loved it- Got an "A" and now, a year later, I find it's hanging up on the wall, along with another of my posters. :-$
snefroe Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 well actually i did take the time to look into this subject, and i'd have to say this is highly interesting and extremely valuable for anyone studying social structures. Nobody of you seem to understand this doesn't have anything to do with Lego, as such, they are observing how people interact with one another, how they set up hierarchies, how rules are being set up in groups, how groups and individuals deal with power... Turning this into 'let's bash communism' is really waaaaay below the mark. this has nothing to do with communism or politics, it's sociology, it's about how to live, interact with people in a structure where peope have different social positions. As another article stated, the families of these cildren have a 'social liberal' profile, in European words they're gategorised in the political midfield ranging from socialist parties, democratic-katholic to liberal parties. No communism there. this bit, for instance, is quite interesting: "I'm making an airport and landing strip for my guy's house. He has his own airplane," said Oliver. "That's not fair!" said Carl. "That takes too many cool pieces and leaves not enough for me." "Well, I can let other people use the landing strip, if they have airplanes," said Oliver. "Then it's fair for me to use more cool pieces, because it's for public use." in other words, this project allowed children to learn how to cooperate, how to work together, how to negociate in life. I fail to see what this has to do with communism. and you guys obviously did not seem to have read this either: We met as a teaching staff later that day. We saw the decimation of Lego-town as an opportunity to launch a critical evaluation of Legotown and the inequities of private ownership and hierarchical authority on which it was founded. Our intention was to promote a contrasting set of values: collectivity, collaboration, resource-sharing, and full democratic participation. We knew that the examination would have the most impact if it was based in engaged exploration and reflection rather than in lots of talking. We didn't want simply to step in as teachers with a new set of rules about how the children could use Legos, exchanging one set of authoritarian rules with another. Ann suggested removing the Legos from the classroom. This bold decision would demonstrate our discomfort with the issues we saw at play in Legotown. And it posed a challenge to the children: How might we create a "community of fairness" about Legos? "full democratic participition" ... g... isn't that a pilar of American democracy? it was, last time I checked... in fact, I'm very impressed by the commitment of this staff. They're really involved in how the kids play, learn and grow into responsable adults. I wish every kid on the planet had so much attention from us, adults...
Opproperaar Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 Amen! Finally, someone is aware of Fox News, or as I like to call it Faux Noise and their nonsense! ;-) Wow, I didn't start the political debate this time! :-D Don't worry Nadroj, I am suspicious towards all media, and especially look down upon anything owned and operated by Murdoch, I despise FOX too and actually all other media, tough there are means of rooting out the truth, or at least, nearly as much of the truth as is possible. :-P Banning LEGO is like banning air. :-| Falls down to the floor gasping for life, can't breath! Must have LE... G...OOO! well actually i did take the time to look into this subject, and i'd have to say this is highly interesting and extremely valuable for anyone studying social structures. Nobody of you seem to understand this doesn't have anything to do with Lego, as such, they are observing how people interact with one another, how they set up hierarchies, how rules are being set up in groups, how groups and individuals deal with power... Turning this into 'let's bash communism' is really waaaaay below the mark. this has nothing to do with communism or politics, it's sociology, it's about how to live, interact with people in a structure where peope have different social positions. As another article stated, the families of these cildren have a 'social liberal' profile, in European words they're gategorised in the political midfield ranging from socialist parties, democratic-katholic to liberal parties. No communism there. this bit, for instance, is quite interesting: "I'm making an airport and landing strip for my guy's house. He has his own airplane," said Oliver. "That's not fair!" said Carl. "That takes too many cool pieces and leaves not enough for me." "Well, I can let other people use the landing strip, if they have airplanes," said Oliver. "Then it's fair for me to use more cool pieces, because it's for public use." in other words, this project allowed children to learn how to cooperate, how to work together, how to negociate in life. I fail to see what this has to do with communism. and you guys obviously did not seem to have read this either: We met as a teaching staff later that day. We saw the decimation of Lego-town as an opportunity to launch a critical evaluation of Legotown and the inequities of private ownership and hierarchical authority on which it was founded. Our intention was to promote a contrasting set of values: collectivity, collaboration, resource-sharing, and full democratic participation. We knew that the examination would have the most impact if it was based in engaged exploration and reflection rather than in lots of talking. We didn't want simply to step in as teachers with a new set of rules about how the children could use Legos, exchanging one set of authoritarian rules with another. Ann suggested removing the Legos from the classroom. This bold decision would demonstrate our discomfort with the issues we saw at play in Legotown. And it posed a challenge to the children: How might we create a "community of fairness" about Legos? "full democratic participition" ... g... isn't that a pilar of American democracy? it was, last time I checked... in fact, I'm very impressed by the commitment of this staff. They're really involved in how the kids play, learn and grow into responsable adults. I wish every kid on the planet had so much attention from us, adults... Well, first, the direction (to all non Dutch, Belgian people, a direction is best described as a certain package of classes which you take in secondary school ;-) ) I take in school is Humane Science with two classes such as Behavioral Science and Cultural Science. Quite the coincidence as the matter of fact cause our first semester this year revolves around nothing but media. Though I knew from way before this year that you can't trust everything they say on TV. ;-) Well said snefroe, it would indeed be better to encourage the kiddies to solve this problem amongst themselves instead of imposing Sovjet Era restrictions on the children their creativity. That's what LEGO is all about, encouraging and helping children to improve their creativity, imagination, have fun while doing so, and when playing with other kids, learning to work together. If you do something as this, well, no wonder you're taking away the fun.
trooperdavinfelth Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 fox news is owned by the murdoch clan, a huge neocon. it's the only news network that GW Bush views. is it any wonder then that the so called "news" is also so right-winged? *wacko* *wacko* just you wait...WSJ is gonna go right too. they were just bought out by murdoch. :-/ there goes the last bastian of professional journalism. You talk as if you actually have a point. Let's look at MSNBC, shall we? Owned and operated by none other than the Democratic Party, and all the commentators there have a job at the place and they are payed to spout the trash that they do. To prove it, in a youTube video, one of the ones when Chris Whopper filling Matthews curses, he quickly says to one of his fellow liberal commentators who in all of his time on MSNBC has never listed MSNBC Employee under his name: 'Shrum, get that off the tape.' It was Bob Shrum, to be exact. So, in your words, 'Is it any wonder that MSNBC is so Left Winged?' What's that you say? WSJ is bought out by murdoch? I may start watching and listening! They actually may straighten out!
Opproperaar Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 You talk as if you actually have a point. Let's look at MSNBC, shall we? Owned and operated by none other than the Democratic Party, and all the commentators there have a job at the place and they are payed to spout the trash that they do. To prove it, in a youTube video, one of the ones when Chris Whopper filling Matthews curses, he quickly says to one of his fellow liberal commentators who in all of his time on MSNBC has never listed MSNBC Employee under his name: 'Shrum, get that off the tape.' It was Bob Shrum, to be exact. So, in your words, 'Is it any wonder that MSNBC is so Left Winged?' What's that you say? WSJ is bought out by murdoch? I may start watching and listening! They actually may straighten out! Well that's the same thing all over the world now isn't it? In Belgium you have government operated channels (which usually bring he best mix of humour/relaxation/educative) and commercial channels. The commercial ones of course have to be competitive as they get their income from commercials and shows, not from the government. Their news is usually of lower quality than the government's. Now you can ask: "But hey, those government channels are probably not that objective all together as they're government operated." I admit that most employees of the VRT (that's how it's called) used to be mostly left wingers though that was their own choice and had nothing to do with what they showed on TV. Nowadays, that left wing has decreased dramatically and the channel boasts employees from all parts of the political spectrum. Furthermore, the VRT has always invited people from both the extreme left as well as the extreme right and everything in between to come and explain what they had to say. (we have way more political parties than in the U.S. :-) ) The VRT has always been critical towards politicians asking every one of them difficult questions as well as of course easy ones too. They won't hesitate in bringing criticism in their news reports. Sadly the channel has in my opinion made mistakes too. There's one whihc is quite long to type here, but I can definitely tell you they sometimes make mistakes as well. It's our job as the viewer to be critical of what we see and hear. If you only have access to two very extreme news channels perhaps listening to both of themand consulting a third, reliable source, on the internet will get you a long way. It sure does for me. Takes up a lot of time though, checking four to six different news sources every day.
Joebot Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 You talk as if you actually have a point. Let's look at MSNBC, shall we? Owned and operated by none other than the Democratic Party, and all the commentators there have a job at the place and they are payed to spout the trash that they do. To prove it, in a youTube video, one of the ones when Chris Whopper filling Matthews curses, he quickly says to one of his fellow liberal commentators who in all of his time on MSNBC has never listed MSNBC Employee under his name: 'Shrum, get that off the tape.' It was Bob Shrum, to be exact. So, in your words, 'Is it any wonder that MSNBC is so Left Winged?' What's that you say? WSJ is bought out by murdoch? I may start watching and listening! They actually may straighten out! Ah yes, the great Myth of the Liberal Media!! That's one of my favorite conservative fairy tales. The Liberal Media is like the Loch Ness Monster -- lots of people claim it's real, but no one ever has any proof. Just for the sake of argument, let's pretend that MSNBC is in fact a bastion of liberalism, with all those filthy, dirty hippies. I have as much a problem with THAT as I do with Fox New's right-wing slant. Politicizing the news is a HUGE problem, regardless of which side of the political spectrum it falls on. People turn to the news for objective reporting of current events, and sadly, most Americans are too busy / lazy / stupid (take your pick) to apply any critical thought to what they hear. Without an informed populace, democracy doesn't work. How can people make intelligent decisions on election day when they've been fed nothing but propaganda and sensationalism masquerading as "news?" I realize this is getting waaaaay off track from the topic of Legos. That Fox News piece is a perfect example of what I'm talking about though. It could have been a really interesting piece, talking about child development, and how parents and teachers work together to address issues they see in the students' behavior. Instead we get a shrill, mocking commentor shrieking "Commies!!!" Ugh.
natelite Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 You talk as if you actually have a point. Let's look at MSNBC, shall we? Owned and operated by none other than the Democratic Party, and all the commentators there have a job at the place and they are payed to spout the trash that they do. To prove it, in a youTube video, one of the ones when Chris Whopper filling Matthews curses, he quickly says to one of his fellow liberal commentators who in all of his time on MSNBC has never listed MSNBC Employee under his name: 'Shrum, get that off the tape.' It was Bob Shrum, to be exact. So, in your words, 'Is it any wonder that MSNBC is so Left Winged?' What's that you say? WSJ is bought out by murdoch? I may start watching and listening! They actually may straighten out! sorry, not trying to be mean here but i just couldn't make any sense of what you wrote. :-/ if you want to rant, it's not the place. i'm not sure where you got your facts from, and your comment on whopper, matthews, shrum, youtube... umm, is any of these facts? i don't even know who these people are. it's a known fact bush only watches fox news. it's a known fact murdoch is a neocon. it's a known fact wsj was bought by murdoch's empire. i don't know how you can look at that clip and say with a straight face that it's news. it's almost like a GOP advertisement. news takes views from both sides. commentators stay neutral. it's hardly neutral when they mocked the teachers to begin with. edit: besides, anyone who have kids or have to work with kids knows kids have their favorite toys or parts in the lego example. it's almost human nature to want to own stuff. and it's natural for teachers or care keepers to make sure everyone shares especially when the school paid for it because everyone has a right to use them. it has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism. it's typical of fox news to just politicize everything. it's not political to begin with as someone said earlier. there has to be some amount of civil law otherwise what's to prevent you from hogging the roads with your hummer h3 claiming "i have a bigger car so that gives me more rights to drive on the road." it's just absurd. everyone, even pedestrian has rights on the road. you don't own it exclusively. if the school owns the lego bricks, and the school is public and paid for by taxpayer's money, how can kids claim private ownership over them? is it fair to your children if they were barred from playing with them because of other bullies? i think the teachers are right in stepping in. there has to be some civility in school.
Opproperaar Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) edit: besides, anyone who have kids or have to work with kids knows kids have their favorite toys or parts in the lego example. it's almost human nature to want to own stuff. and it's natural for teachers or care keepers to make sure everyone shares especially when the school paid for it because everyone has a right to use them. it has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism. it's typical of fox news to just politicize everything. it's not political to begin with as someone said earlier. there has to be some amount of civil law otherwise what's to prevent you from hogging the roads with your hummer h3 claiming "i have a bigger car so that gives me more rights to drive on the road." it's just absurd. everyone, even pedestrian has rights on the road. you don't own it exclusively. if the school owns the lego bricks, and the school is public and paid for by taxpayer's money, how can kids claim private ownership over them? is it fair to your children if they were barred from playing with them because of other bullies? i think the teachers are right in stepping in. there has to be some civility in school. I would agree with you here (personally I seriously dislike FOX News too) but I don't think the link between rules such as - All houses are public buildings - All houses must be of the same, predetermined size - Bricks can only be owned by a team, never by an individual and comments such as the new rules were installed after teachers began to (quote) notice how their students behaviour began to mirror a class based capitalist society, one that we teachers believe to be unjust and opprssive. (unquote) to communism It's a perfectly normal link, to say: Hey, this ban on LEGO, given the circumstances which provocked it and under which the ban was installed and LEGO was soon after again re-intoduced in the classes, and this certain political/economic system (communism) are very much alike. Apart from that, Fox could seriously be a little bit more objective in it's reporting, although that's probably impossible. For example: When the reporter first asked a question to Jim Copland: he immediately asked (quote) "How ridiculous is this?" (unquote) to which Copland replies (quote) "This is really just proposturous" (unquote) Even though I fully agree with the fact that it's ridiculous, news agencies are supposed to be objective and never, ever take a side and be biased. Well, this would cancel out almost all the American media IMHO and most definitely FOX News. I agree, they just don't even try to appear objective and unbiased, they're just biased and don't even try to hide it! They just throw their own opinion on the table, in the news! As for the teachers, if kids are fighting over a piece, make them both sit some time out in the corner, telling the kid who first claimed property of what's in fact school equipment can't do that anymore and telling the other kid he/she can't start a fight over something like that and should instead report it to the teacher. Edited October 31, 2007 by Hairy Ruben
natelite Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 Even though I fully agree with the fact that it's ridiculous, news agencies are supposed to be objective and never, ever take a side and be biased. Well, this would cancel out almost all the American media IMHO and most definitely FOX News. I agree, they just don't even try to appear objective and unbiased, they're just biased and don't even try to hide it! They just throw their own opinion on the table, in the news! agreed with you. it's called sensationalizing news. there was an article of murdoch where he pioneered that. i don't blame him though. i blame today's society. gossip has gone mainstream. if it's not juicy, frankly no one wants to read it. the conclusion though has already been predetermined in such cases. it's a sad, sad world we live in.
trooperdavinfelth Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) sorry, not trying to be mean here but i just couldn't make any sense of what you wrote. :-/ if you want to rant, it's not the place.i'm not sure where you got your facts from, and your comment on whopper, matthews, shrum, youtube... umm, is any of these facts? i don't even know who these people are. it's a known fact bush only watches fox news. it's a known fact murdoch is a neocon. it's a known fact wsj was bought by murdoch's empire. i don't know how you can look at that clip and say with a straight face that it's news. it's almost like a GOP advertisement. news takes views from both sides. commentators stay neutral. it's hardly neutral when they mocked the teachers to begin with. No problem. As a conservative, I don't hold grudges or take offense that easily. :-P Anyway, I have to fly your first sentence back at ya'. I certainly am not ranting! X-O Also, if you watch Hardball with Chris Matthews, you will see these crackpots and Chris's exceptionally wide mouth(from which I achieved his worthy title since he ate them as much as Slick Willie) I don't deny that these are known facts. Woah. Empire? Isn't that a little harsh? Ok, if you want proof, here's proof: To wrap up my statements, I think that the school is just absolutely out of whack. Period. Oh, and Joebot, I agree with you. It's not like I love every one of the Fox people. Hannity and Colmes(unless something special is on the show, for instance, a debate), the O'Reilly Factor, and Geraldo at Large. Edited October 31, 2007 by trooperdavinfelth
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