Carribean Clipper vs the Imperial Flagship

[naf]

I think CC is much better. Maybe the IF looks better at first look, but the sails hung fast down and than they got crumpled and when you stand it in a corner and look again 5 years later,

the sail got a new form and it is difficoult to fix that.

What do you mean by that? Is there a flaw in the construction of the IF that damages the sail?

[Marquis]

Hi, everybody!

At once I apologize for the ugly text. I don't know English and the online translator used.

Carribean Clipper is better.

1 . The ship basis entirely brown color (Imperial Flagship – brown-gray). For me it is important.

2 . Cabin. Carribean Clipper have a full-fledged cabin for the captain. Imperial Flagship don't have it. The room is occupied with the device for wheel turn.

3 . Stern registration. At Carribean Clipper it is accurate and logical. Imperial Flagship for some reason have a window. And the window is placed at level below a back of the helmsman. What for?!

4 . Sails at both ships the almost identical. But Carribean Clipper have an additional mast on which at desire (and at opportunity) it is possible to place additional sails.

5 . Where at Imperial Flagship an anchor? It on parking by a current will carry away anywhere.

Here my such opinion.

[naf]

I was lucky enough to find a nice used version of the Imperial Flagship, which is now built and sitting next to the Caribbean Clipper. First I will say that I love the IF, it's a great looking ship and I really like the slimmer ship hull. However, I still give the win to the Clipper:

1) Imperial Flagship does not have an anchor, which is about as odd as the Renegade Runner not having a steering wheel.

2) As you mentioned, the rudder steering mechanism takes up the entire cabin. This is really a novelty feature and doesn't add to the model, I'd much rather have a nice cabin for the captain. I might remove the feature in the future and add a chair and desk for the captain.

3) While the slimmer hull looks nice and might be more realistic, it starts to feel crowded when you start putting figures on the ship.

4) I'm biased towards the bluecoats, I like their look better than the redcoats (no one said I had to be fair and balanced!)

Like I said, I do think the Imperial Flagship is a beauty of a Lego ship. I had no idea that the sails had that tea stained color to them instead of being white. I don't necessarily like the flag and sail graphic of the Imperials with the crossed cannons, but I love the color of the sails. It makes me want to tea stain my Clipper sails so that the white is that same color. I also like the sail configuration and rigging of the Imperial Flagship better, I wish Clipper had one more sail on that rear mast.

Of course, I have the 10210 Imperial Flagship sitting in the box waiting to be built, which is going to dwarf both of these ships!

Edited April 25, 2013 by naf

[Marquis]

You have 10210 Imperial Flagship and he is yet built?

I brought together him as soon as it appeared at home.

Sails for Caribbean Clipper can be made the additional. The back mast perfectly will approach for this purpose.

I don't leave sets collected for a long time. They are only initial material for my independent works.

[naf]

You have 10210 Imperial Flagship and he is yet built?

Work and kids are making it hard to find time build it. My kids are rather young, so they can't be much help in building the ship unfortunately.

[eliminator]

I voted for the Imperial Flagship. I find it simply looks better. And I like the Imperial Flagship's sails! Tar and feather me now if you want! ;-)

The Carribean Clipper has a second mast in its back section, but there's no sail fixed on it. What's the use of a mast without a sail?

This lack of a rear sail on the Clipper always bothered me, especially since it makes the ship look unbalanced. You could always add a triangle blue sail from another set I suppose.

My vote goes from the Flagship, although I do have a built-once mint condition Clipper with box and instruction book in my collection.

[Marquis]

But I like an additional mast at the Carribean Clipper.

The set turned out incomplete. But if a few to finish it, it will turn out much better than the Imperial Flagship.

[SBCMayor]

I'm bumping this old thread after 11 years. 

I wanted the Caribbean Clipper so badly when it came out in 1989. I wasn't fortunate enough to get it, but I did get the Imperial Flagship in 1992. My fondness for the pirate series and both Imperial Soldiers and Imperial Guards never fully dissipated, and as an adult I've recently purchased two copies of Carribean Clipper and one Imperial Flagship. 

After waiting for 35 years the Carribean Clipper has been worth it. The Imperial Flagship will also always have a special place in my heart as my first, and until recently, only Lego pirate series ship. I don't think a fan of the Pirate line can go wrong with either ship. I recall studying the catalogues, boxes, and pictures carefully as a kid and the first thing I noticed about the Imperial Flagship was it has a slimmed down hull. Even as a kid with virtually no knowledge of ship design I figured this to be a smaller, lighter, faster, and more maneuverable ship than the CC. I wasn't really worried about the "too short for its width" critique of the CC and having now assembled 2 of them as an adult I'm still not. As far as lego models go, I consider the CC a great representation of an entry-level gun ship. Not a sloop but definitely not a ship of the line! 

So I'll share some thoughts on some specific features: 

Overall design: Carribean Clipper. Again, I don't think a fan of lego tall ships can go wrong with either. I immediately loved the overall look of the IF when I first assembled it, but it will not ever be able to top its 1989 counterpart. There is just something about those first-wave ships that did it for me, and while the IF has some amazing overall design triumphs, I just think the CC is better. 

Rigging: Imperial Flagship. Even as a kid in 1989 with limited (non-existent) knowledge of ship design, the rigging piece on the CC bothered me. As an adult I get it: piece count. It's not just that they saved 1 rigging piece, it's they had to save on the entire front end assembly to make the rigging piece align to the proper mast height. By 1992 they had introduced a shorter rigging piece for the IF, resulting in that detail favoring the IF over the CC.

Cabin space: Carribean Clipper. And by a lot. Granted neither of these ships are going to wow even the lowest ranking officer with their accommodations, but the CC at least has the space and potential to modify and customize a suitable cabin area. While the IF features the functioning rudder, as a kid I would have rather had a more realistic cabin toward the stern than a "real" rudder. That was a play feature I never used anyway, so for me it's not a win. (I do appreciate the addition of the window on the command deck of the IF, giving the appearance of a cabin if you are viewing from behind. At least they did that.)

Width: Carribean Clipper. I've read here and on multiple other comparison threads for these two ships that the CC is too short for how wide it is. I disagree. I love the ability to put 2 more guns in each of my models, making them both far more formidable mid-weights. The IF will never have that option. Even if I never add to the CC's firepower, I love having the option to do so. 

Crew: Carribean Clipper. As a kid, I actually didn't like that they made the CC crew wear the tricorn hats and no backpacks. I LOVED the way the standard enlisted soldiers looked and felt like you couldn't get enough of them. But as an adult I like this feature a lot more about it and wish the IF had followed this as well. Ground forces look different from sailors so the guys you'd see working the ship wouldn't look the same as those you'd see on ground or even as a boarding party or expeditionary force embarked on the vessel. Also, reading others comments, I see the one figure isn't a pirate but a deckhand. I always treated him like a pirate with my set. 

Originality: Carribean Clipper. This ship did a better job as a smaller, less expensive "good guys" option opposite its pirate counterpart, the Black Seas Barracuda than the IF does with its contemporaries the Skull's Eye Schooner and Renegade Runner, both of which came out in 1993. The original wave of Lego Pirates just changed so much. The IF definitely makes some design improvements on the CC, but the CC literally helped invent the genre. And that brings me to my overall opinion:

Overall winner: Carribean Clipper. For me it's an obvious choice. I love both. I'd rather have either than pretty much anything else from any other series, TBH. I like the pirate series that much. But if I must pick one over the other, there is simply no competing with those initial 1989 releases. So I voted accordingly. 

 

[PxChris]

Without jumping into all the detailed you covered... I would have to agree wholeheartedly that the Caribbean Clipper is the superior ship to the Imperial Flagship in practically every way! I've frankly never been a huge fan of the IF even to this day, and I own a couple of them.

[SpacePolice89]

I like both ships but I slightly favor the Imperial Flagship. It was very difficult for me to make this choice because both ships belong to my favorite sets.

[AViewToALego]

Hmm... This one is always tricky!

 

Due to Nostalgia I have a soft spot for the Imperial Flagship 6271. I own three of them, one inside its box with the plastic inlays and all.

I also own three Caribbean Clipper, that's how much I love that ship. But I didn't had the same fondness for it from the start. As a child, I didn't even knew it existed in the first place. It was only years later as an adult, I finally got the chance to build it, and it was by then, I truly fell in love with herl. The Imperial Flagship has a sleek, beautiful and elegant design. Caribbean Clipper on the other hand is more rough and messy. Despite the rigging, the bulkiness and other "flaws" such as the cave-like cabin, it somehow comes together perfectly. It really feels like a more utilitarian sailing vessel, meant to be sturdy and to handle to lows and tides of a heavy storm. Both are fun to assemble and MOC. I always remove the steering mechanic from the Imperial Flagship, but you can barely fit a table there anyway.

The only thing that kind of bothered me with the Imperial Flagship was the lack of Anchor, and the fact that due to her slim design, you cannot fit four cannons, only two. The deckspace also gets quite crammed, since you need cannonballs and crew there. Thus, Caribbean Clipper with its more spacious deck, holds the upper hand. You just flip the anchor in and let it rest on the deck. It works! I also prefer the color scheme of the Caribbean Clipper. Yellow, Brown, Blue...

But... Holding 6271 in my hand...  just makes me smile! She is quite the beauty!

That said, both ships are cool in different ways. If I had to pick a ship to display for an extended period of time, I would pick the Imperial Flagship. But if I wanted to MOC and prepare a ship for a battle at sea (fitting it with Rum and extra cannons and crew), I would pick the Clipper. But both ships are fantastic and you can never own too many of them.

Edited September 26, 2024 by AViewToALego

[RichardGoring]

I had Caribbean Clipper as a child (and still have it today). I had so much fun with it, and my children enjoy it now too. It would always have my vote. Having never had the Imperial Flagship, I can't directly compare, but it seems like Imperial Flagship is a better model and Caribbean Clipper may be better as a play set, given that it's simpler and more space to get into it and act things out.

[TheCosmicTravelers]

Since my first ship was 6280 Armada flagship (technically 10210 with its 3 square-rigged masts is the only true 'ship' of all the LEGO Pirates vessels), I hopefully can claim some objectiveness in my assessment of these two ships as I have specific no nostalgia for either.  As a side note, I think the US names for both sets are ill-fitting as 6274 (Caribbean Clipper) is in no way a clipper (a long narrow sailing ship built for speed) and 6271 (Imperial Flagship) is a laughable excuse for a flagship (it does make for a fine pirate/pirate-hunting ship). 

As many have noted, 6274 is wider than 6271 since it uses the 16-stud wide hull pieces found on larger ships.  These pieces allow placement of two cannons on both port and starboard sides with space between.  I do like being able to arm both sides of the ship although 6274 only includes 2 cannons.  The wider bow and stern pieces are also more conducive for storage/cabins as internal space is more limited in the narrower 12-stud wide pieces used by 6271, exacerbated by narrowing at the ends.  I also prefer the fully brown coloring of the wider hull pieces versus the brown with topped with dark grey used for the narrower hull pieces (I think dark grey makes for an ugly upper hull/deck color).  That being said, while both sets only use a single middle hull piece, the use of more narrow hull pieces for 6271 makes it look faster and more maneuverable next to the comparatively tubby 6274 (there is a reason actual clippers had sharp sleek lines).

Another major point of comparison is the sail plan/rigging.  6271 is recognizably a sloop, albeit one with a large square sail immediately in front of the fore-and-aft mainsail instead of above it (as more correctly seen in 6277's merchant vessel).  Another quibble I have with 6271’s setup is that the rigging arrangement at the bow precludes the simple addition of a figurehead.  While 6274 has a proper figurehead, its sail plan/rigging is incomplete and makes no sense without some modifications.  The rear mast, while potentially useful, only serves as a rigging attachment point and a flagpole for the large Imperial Soldiers flag.  Without any sails, it is essentially dead-weight, increasing drag and slowing an already slowly built ship further.  The placement of the 2nd mast is also problematic as it should technically go down to the bottom of the hull for stability but its location at the very front of a completely open rear cabin makes the lack of a lower portion conspicuous (stacking some round 2x2 bricks and tiles with 2x2 square tiles at either end offers a simple fix although this impedes attempts to build a front wall to enclose the rear cabin).  Since the aft mast is too small to replicate the double sails on the foremast and an official blue striped fore-and-aft square sail (like the spanker on 21322’s ship) does not exist, a triangular lateen sail like that on 6280 is the simplest addition using an additional headsail and a yardarm construct similar to 6280 (note: 6280's triangular sail has thinner blue stripes than 6274's and is placed backwards in most set images).  The placement of this yardarm is a bit tricky, however, as it should be attached at the mast's middle attachment point but this places the bottom of the sail too low such that it interferes with the ship’s wheel and minifigs on the stern deck.  It is thus necessary to elevate the sail further up the yardarm and/or elevate the yardarm itself by a few stud heights.  In addition, the single shroud rigging placed aft of 6274’s foremast makes little structural sense as shrouds also function as standing rigging providing support to the mast and thus need corresponding rigging on the opposite side for counter-tension.  In addition, the placement of shrouds in the middle of the deck (instead of along the sides as normal) impedes space/movement on the deck.

A few more criticisms of 6274 are the downward opening gunport flaps (which would get caught by waves and increase drag/get shorn off) and the proportional shortness of the stern deck.  Since the stern deck is wider than it is long, the side walls of the cabin beneath do not have any windows and most attempts to build a front wall to enclose this cabin look proportionally off due to the abruptness of the height increase relative to hull length and width.

While 6271 fixes most of the issues with 6274, its stern cabin space is mostly occupied by a mechanism that turns the rudder when the ship’s wheel is turned.  A single stern window is present for appearances as it simply opens onto the already open stern deck.  Here, I think 6274’s stern with its double windows looks superior.  6274’s color scheme also looks more attractive than 6271’s due to the presence of yellow and blue highlights and the lack of dark grey, though I do love 6271’s tan sails.  In addition, 6274 has a lowering anchor, an opening forward hatch, partitioned cannonball storage areas between port and starboard guns, and more weapon clips.  I also prefer 6274’s more homogenous crew wearing tricornes (shakos became common military headwear almost a century after the Golden Age of Piracy; also blue was the traditional color of naval uniforms (including the Royal Navy)).

In conclusion, I feel 6271 is the better set as I did not feel the need to make any extensive modifications to it as I did for 6274.  6274 has more space, more detailing, a more attractive color scheme, and a better crew than 6271 but suffers greatly from proportion and design issues.  While some relatively simple mods can fix 6274 to an extent, I feel like fully addressing its issues would essentially result in a recolored 6285, thus losing the set’s character in the process.

[SBCMayor]

On 9/29/2024 at 9:13 PM, TheCosmicTravelers said:

Since my first ship was 6280 Armada flagship (technically 10210 with its 3 square-rigged masts is the only true 'ship' of all the LEGO Pirates vessels), I hopefully can claim some objectiveness in my assessment of these two ships as I have specific no nostalgia for either.  As a side note, I think the US names for both sets are ill-fitting as 6274 (Caribbean Clipper) is in no way a clipper (a long narrow sailing ship built for speed) and 6271 (Imperial Flagship) is a laughable excuse for a flagship (it does make for a fine pirate/pirate-hunting ship). 

 

As many have noted, 6274 is wider than 6271 since it uses the 16-stud wide hull pieces found on larger ships.  These pieces allow placement of two cannons on both port and starboard sides with space between.  I do like being able to arm both sides of the ship although 6274 only includes 2 cannons.  The wider bow and stern pieces are also more conducive for storage/cabins as internal space is more limited in the narrower 12-stud wide pieces used by 6271, exacerbated by narrowing at the ends.  I also prefer the fully brown coloring of the wider hull pieces versus the brown with topped with dark grey used for the narrower hull pieces (I think dark grey makes for an ugly upper hull/deck color).  That being said, while both sets only use a single middle hull piece, the use of more narrow hull pieces for 6271 makes it look faster and more maneuverable next to the comparatively tubby 6274 (there is a reason actual clippers had sharp sleek lines).

 

Another major point of comparison is the sail plan/rigging.  6271 is recognizably a sloop, albeit one with a large square sail immediately in front of the fore-and-aft mainsail instead of above it (as more correctly seen in 6277's merchant vessel).  Another quibble I have with 6271’s setup is that the rigging arrangement at the bow precludes the simple addition of a figurehead.  While 6274 has a proper figurehead, its sail plan/rigging is incomplete and makes no sense without some modifications.  The rear mast, while potentially useful, only serves as a rigging attachment point and a flagpole for the large Imperial Soldiers flag.  Without any sails, it is essentially dead-weight, increasing drag and slowing an already slowly built ship further.  The placement of the 2nd mast is also problematic as it should technically go down to the bottom of the hull for stability but its location at the very front of a completely open rear cabin makes the lack of a lower portion conspicuous (stacking some round 2x2 bricks and tiles with 2x2 square tiles at either end offers a simple fix although this impedes attempts to build a front wall to enclose the rear cabin).  Since the aft mast is too small to replicate the double sails on the foremast and an official blue striped fore-and-aft square sail (like the spanker on 21322’s ship) does not exist, a triangular lateen sail like that on 6280 is the simplest addition using an additional headsail and a yardarm construct similar to 6280 (note: 6280's triangular sail has thinner blue stripes than 6274's and is placed backwards in most set images).  The placement of this yardarm is a bit tricky, however, as it should be attached at the mast's middle attachment point but this places the bottom of the sail too low such that it interferes with the ship’s wheel and minifigs on the stern deck.  It is thus necessary to elevate the sail further up the yardarm and/or elevate the yardarm itself by a few stud heights.  In addition, the single shroud rigging placed aft of 6274’s foremast makes little structural sense as shrouds also function as standing rigging providing support to the mast and thus need corresponding rigging on the opposite side for counter-tension.  In addition, the placement of shrouds in the middle of the deck (instead of along the sides as normal) impedes space/movement on the deck.

 

A few more criticisms of 6274 are the downward opening gunport flaps (which would get caught by waves and increase drag/get shorn off) and the proportional shortness of the stern deck.  Since the stern deck is wider than it is long, the side walls of the cabin beneath do not have any windows and most attempts to build a front wall to enclose this cabin look proportionally off due to the abruptness of the height increase relative to hull length and width.

 

While 6271 fixes most of the issues with 6274, its stern cabin space is mostly occupied by a mechanism that turns the rudder when the ship’s wheel is turned.  A single stern window is present for appearances as it simply opens onto the already open stern deck.  Here, I think 6274’s stern with its double windows looks superior.  6274’s color scheme also looks more attractive than 6271’s due to the presence of yellow and blue highlights and the lack of dark grey, though I do love 6271’s tan sails.  In addition, 6274 has a lowering anchor, an opening forward hatch, partitioned cannonball storage areas between port and starboard guns, and more weapon clips.  I also prefer 6274’s more homogenous crew wearing tricornes (shakos became common military headwear almost a century after the Golden Age of Piracy; also blue was the traditional color of naval uniforms (including the Royal Navy)).

 

In conclusion, I feel 6271 is the better set as I did not feel the need to make any extensive modifications to it as I did for 6274.  6274 has more space, more detailing, a more attractive color scheme, and a better crew than 6271 but suffers greatly from proportion and design issues.  While some relatively simple mods can fix 6274 to an extent, I feel like fully addressing its issues would essentially result in a recolored 6285, thus losing the set’s character in the process.

 

Love this review. Even though these are toys designed primarily for their potential to generate sales based on their play potential, I love the actual knowledge of sail configurations applied to these models. 

I also really love the tan sails for the IF. One thing I wish I could find, and I might be able to eventually, is plain tan sails. I'd love to convert an IF to a pirate vessel but the imperial insignia on the sails sort of ruins that potential. I think the IF would make a great pirate ship conversion and if I ever find a place to order plain tan replacement sails I'm ordering them and getting back on Ebay/Bricklink to start looking for my conversion set! 

Thanks again, this was a great review and a lot of fun to read! 

[OlDesparado]

Imperial Flagship for me just because I prefer the layout of the sails than the Carribean Clipper.

[SBCMayor]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:03 PM, SBCMayor said:

 

I also really love the tan sails for the IF. One thing I wish I could find, and I might be able to eventually, is plain tan sails. I'd love to convert an IF to a pirate vessel but the imperial insignia on the sails sort of ruins that potential. I think the IF would make a great pirate ship conversion and if I ever find a place to order plain tan replacement sails I'm ordering them and getting back on Ebay/Bricklink to start looking for my conversion set! 

 

I found my plain sails! I also found a donor ship for the conversion. It couldn't have been better, appears to be in very good shape, but missing sails, minifigures, features a couple replacement pieces (black lanterns instead of blue). Consequently this was inexpensive comparatively. I'll get some pirate flags and a crew and this ship will be well on its way to pillaging and plundering!