Eurobricks Changes

[ApophisV]

(Hm, after splitting this post needs another introduction... :$)

As there were many comments and posts and whatever about the off topic problems around here, I decided to tell you some thoughts on this and show you what we have planned for the near future:

If you are honestly and think about the amounts of posts some of you guys did within one day it was sometimes ridiculous much and the off topic posts of them lately became too high, even for this place.

But since this became a trend the last month we decided to change things around here a bit. Those changes won't be made to make this forums more strict or on topic or whatever (believe me, the last thing we want is to loose your activity!).

We want to try to give you (this means the whole community, including those members that want to chat and post as much as possible, the lurkers that just want to read what you write, the lurkers just coming here for getting infos, the members that are here for the Lego related discussions and less the off topic'ish chats and so on, etc. etc...) a better platform to satisfy your needs!

- That's why we will have an "more strict eye" on the Lego related forums (which will be restructured the next time), so there won't be exaggerated off topic posts hopefully.

- Then we'll have the community section where off topic discussions will be allowed as much as we were used to do it.

- And then finally we will try (sorry, can't promise it yet :$ ) to set up a chat room where all the members and especially those of you trying to communicate about whatever can finally have all the talks they want to!

But please remember, those are just PLANS, nothing is completely confirmed yet, we (the admins) have to discuss about all those aspects the next days and we will keep you up to date!

I hope that cleared some things up, I'll slpit this thread now, so if there are any further questions or comments, don't hesitate to post them! (And please stay on topic at this important thread! :P ;))

[Sarg_Kulo]

I'm all for just the Lego forums. I think the comunty ones hsould be a little lighter though.

[Mister Phes]

I'm all for just the Lego forums. I think the comunty ones hsould be a little lighter though.

I agree! All LEGO threads should be kept as closely on topic as possible.

But the community threads... This is a more informal and social discussion area, its only natural that conversations take deviations in other areas.

For example: We went off topic in two Hitch threads... Unless I'm mistaken this isn't a serious movie discussion forum. The creator of the thread wasn't the least bit phased it went off topic and there wasn't much to say about Hitch anyway. Closing the thread didn't make an effective example it just made the moderators look like they've suddenly turned evil.

What were we supposed to do? Create a brand new nonsense thread for the purpose of continuing our off-topic discussion when the Hitch thread would have recieved null activity? Some threads have a very short life span anyway and would go to waste if the conversation wasn't taken in another direction.

As for the birthday greetings? What are we suppose to do, just write a variation of "happy birthday" and "how much cake was there" in every single thread? Sheeeeeeesh! I even wrote an on topic song and it got edited out. At a birthday party people don't say "Happy Birthday" repeatedly until the party is over. Unless birthday parties are different in other parts of the world...

As for me in particular, the moderators seem to be making an example out of me, and to a lesser extent Sarg Kulo. We're not the only ones that make off topic posts but we seem to be the ones getting repremanded the most, while other users don't appear to be getting anything said to them.

Eg. The Guess what I got in the mail...? thread - several people went off topic there but I'm the only one who gets repremanded because I bring up the fact it was off topic. What about the other people who contributed to it going off topic? Nothing said to them whatsoever...

Me and Kulo appear to be made out as trouble makers who don't contribute anything useful to the messageboard. We're always hearing what we do wrong, but not what we do right. Why? Because we went terribly off topic in 2 Hitch threads so now whenever we write anything mildly inappropriate or off topic its made public. Wheras, if someone else did it, the moderators would leave it to go unnoticed.

I try to do the right thing, but what I consider "on topic" might be what the moderators consider "off topic". However when some of the other users (including moderators) are also posting "off topic" its more difficult to determine what is accepted as "on topic".

This message board was a lot of fun until about a week ago, but the approach the moderators have taken to ensure threads remain on topic seems somewhat unequitable. There are appears to be double standards present which is turning this message board experience into a rather unpleasant one. Wolf was right all along... Don't be surprised if I refrain from posting in the future.

[Sarg_Kulo]

Hey don't not post. Your post have made me laugh, you are quite funny.

I think it owould be a good idea just to have a thread where people go off topic, the conversation juts continues wether it's about me killing eowks, my sugar problems or about how I died on the train :P

Let's just relax a little.

Hey Fez, after being at FBTB for a while I have never felt picked on here ;)

It is a lot fairer here.

I do wish the mods have left one hitch thread open though, I feel embarrased to start a new one to ask if the movie is worth seeing or getting on DVD

[SuvieD]

The plans sound nice. :)

Please don't over control the forums though. I for one do not enjoy all the silly rules and "oganization" of the majority of the LEGO websites. *wacko* That is why I, a resident of the US, post to a European message board. People here have fun and still maintain a common LEGO interest. ;)

I do think that people should use common sense before posting though. I wouldn't enjoy someone hijacking a thread I created by going way off topic *twisted* , being overly negative >:( or starting a flame war *devil* . So, I will endevor to return such a courtesy to the members here. :-D I like that it can go off topic somewhat but still be constructive.

Anyway, I did notice the Phes got "talked to" on the forum. I say that if a member is abusing posting then let them know either more gently or privately (which ever is more applicable).

Eurobricks is not a forum or a chat room but a community. I will support any change that works to maintain that effort. *satis* If this place turns into FBTB or Lugnet, I will find somewhere else to go. :'(

Not trying to sound negative. I love this site and I think the admins are some of the best I have seen. One of you should attempt to be an ambassador when they vote next. This site has a great sense of diversity and community. Keep it up everyone.

[xwingyoda]

This message board was a lot of fun  until about a week ago, but the approach the moderators have taken to ensure threads remain on topic seems somewhat unequitable.    There are appears to be double standards present which is turning this message board experience into a rather unpleasant one.  Wolf was right all along... Don't be surprised if I refrain from posting in the future.

mister_phes,

I really think that you are being unfair here.

First of all, we, the admins/moderators DO NOT enjoy the role of "Board Police Officer". We are simply trying to limit a little bit the amount of off topic discussions going on.

We really emphasize on the fact that some topics like drugs, sex (...) should not be touched, as well as racism, blind and unproductive criticisms on countries, culture, religion...

Once again, a little off topic can be fun (I tend to go a little too often off topic, bad me)

We are indeed a Lego Community, that means we, the members, enjoy discussions mainly on Lego in a respectfull way to others. Bear in mind that what can be funny for someone, might be offensive to others.

Secondly I do not think that members are treated differently: admins/moderators or members.

If you feel that you are being treated unfairly PLEASE contact us via PM, thats our role, we ARE here for our members.

Like I said we are a Community and therefore our goal is to make this community better. We are thinking of solutions that will please (and that is the goal, trust me on this) everyone.

Like Apo said, some things might not be doable, and if they are doable, then we'll go from there.

SuvieD,

Thanks for your kind words, we are definitly going to stay the way we are: a friendly and diverse community.

PS: after emphesizing how much we are a community, could you please devote a little bit of your time and efforts to help creating the "Lego Shop Database" (the subject is pinned in the BUY Forum)-

thanks for your time ;)

[ApophisV]

For example: We went off topic in two Hitch threads... [...] Closing the thread didn't make an effective example it just made the moderators look like they've suddenly turned evil.

Let's start at the beginning: Since you have joined phes (don't take this personal, just as some kind of a date where I can start my story!) the posts per day have increased insanely. It wasn't just you and Sarg Kulo but also some other members and also some mods that kept the forum alive very much.

I think most of you can't judge this but since I am at this board almost from it's beginning I can tell you that our community has changed very much since we got more posting members than just Jipay, Jon, DoubleT and me.

At early that time there were a large amount of off posting, that was sure. But since we were four it hadn't mattered very much. Nowadays we have many, many members we have to satisfy (look at my first post here). So we four calmed down our posting more or less because this whole project Eurobricks became something serious! I for instance visited the forums the last month not very much, and most times I just lurked instead of posting or did some little moderating / administrating.

Now let's jump into Jon's point of view (at least as much as I can do this, Jon feel free to edit / comment if I'm wrong!). As far as I know, Jon was one of the guys from our original staff (now also including Vader and Orlego who both were also "senior members" at this time) that took the moderation job the most serious (I didn't this a few weeks before since I was busy with tests at university).

When you, phes and gang (:P), started to get involved in here so much, Jon had still a look at you. But as he noticed that you are exaggerating things a bit (sorry, but 160 post per day IS exaggerated!!! This still is a forum and not a chat room) there came the point where he wasn't able to resist locking this Hitch thread that was a) REALLY off topic and b) there were some things discussed that belong into a chat room, a messenger talk or whereever, but not into a forum that is about a toy!

But as he closed that thread he immediatelly got comments that don't show even a little bit of respect! (I won't repeat since I am too lazy to search them and also this shall not be discussed here in detail) Suddenly there appeared here and there always comments about Jon that were just completely unnecessary! Jon always did a great job in terms of moderation, and just for locking this thread trying to make him looking like a fool or a megablok is really not fair!

This was the point where I came into play (and where also some other people I talked to started thinking about the last happenings!). Maybe I haven't acted completely right either, but for me the second hitch thread and especially some of the responses to it (the last one of you, phes) were enough reason for me to lock this thread again! Once again there wasn't shown any respect for the people running this place, putting time and effort (and even much money, at least in Jipays case!!! Maybe a little Thank You!!! while I'm talking about it ;)) in it and doing so much for the community...

So maybe you can imagine that reading some silly comments about our "new strictness" or a sarcastic "don't let the thread go off topic!" and such stuff doesn't make the situation better in my eyes.

And for removing your birthday song: Sorry, but in that context it had this feeling that you try to make us and also luca look like fools! I said "please keep this thread clean now" and you go on with discussing about moderating! Afterwards I'm sorry for my harsh reaction, but in that situation I was too up set to keep myself from posting those comments!

Maybe you can think about this and try to see everything from the staff's point of view too! This is a community and we "have to live together" and sometimes we all have to work for this and put a little bit of effort into it!

So here is my suggestion:

WE (the staff):

- will try not to be too harsh and strict with you,

- and will work on Eurobricks' structure (forums, chat room and so on)

and therefor YOU (the members, especially those who want to participate very much):

- will try to limit your posts to a reasonable amount (if possible less than 50 per day :| if you need to say more just put down several sentences into one post! Yeah I tried it, it IS possible! ;))

- will try not to post silly comments when we do some reasonable moderation,

- and finally you will try to keep the Lego section clean and use the community section for chit-chat!

So please tell me what you think about those suggestions, I'll comment on the posts above more later when I have more time!

[jonfett]

As far as I know, Jon was one of the guys from our original staff (now also including Vader and Orlego who both were also "senior members" at this time) that took the moderation job the most serious (I didn't this a few weeks before since I was busy with tests at university).

I think that I, as a Mod/Admin, am one of the few (or only one) who checks the forum everyday. Currently I have a pretty relaxed schedule, unlike DoubleT, Jipay and Apo.. So I try my best to go through every post making sure things are fine and people are getting on.

The Hitch thread which I locked was not just out of pure evil-ness. I had been looking at the state of topics for the last few weeks and I felt that something has to be done. I know most of you disagreed and argued, but I felt that by locking it, it would encourage you guys to calm down a little bit and try to focus more on topic. Of course, some people ignored this and so what else was there to do but warn them?

We are not trying to run a dictatorship or pick on certain people. We want this forum to meet the needs of all of our members and be a fun place to be.

I just hope that these changes will encourage you to think a little bit more about what you are doing and also to encourage you to visit and enjoy the forums here.

Jon.

[snefroe]

first, i love this forum. it's fun to talk about lego from a european view. As jipay once said, on this forum, we use the word "football" instead of "soccer". Great fun! :P

i guess it's not so easy to find a right balance between going off topic and discipline. and it's probably even more difficult to regulate that balance...

however, i do want you, the administrators, to post more, because, Eurobricks doesn't have enough active members. we may have 300+ members, but how many actually do post interesting messages on almost daily basis? very often, topics go "off topic" because we don't have anything more to say about the topic, or we just keep on repeating ourselves...

However, sometimes there's still a discussion going on... It's no longer about the original topic, but about other lego subjects... The sandcrawler topic is a good example... In a way, you should be able to change the title of the topic... In any case, we need more/new blood...

i've seen another, more annoying trend, especially in the last few weeks. the lego section has seen an inflation of topics about more or less the same subjects. sometimes i would have to write exactly the same reply on different topics because the post is relevant to all topics... (in the end I don't do it, 'cause I'm too lazy...) i think we should keep the forums and topics limited and very much different from each other... we don't need a topic on future themes, another one on future licences, a third one on "what would you like to see in the future", a fourth "what do you think we'll see"... fewer topics, and more flexibility in content, i say...

I'm also a bit tired to see all these polls. they are relevant, they are interesting, but why not create a different forum called "polls", after all, we also have a forum "buy, sell, trade and finds"? it would keep the polls out of the regular forums... And you could restrict it to only voting and at best a few lines of comment, but no regular posting...

[jonfett]

we don't need a topic on future themes, another one on future licences, a third one on "what would you like to see in the future", a fourth "what do you think we'll see"

I tried to solve this by merging similar topics, but the response was not too good.

When we "tidy up" the forums in a few weeks I will make sure that these are combined in a way that makes it easy to read and keeps the members happy.

I'm also a bit tired to see all these polls. they are relevant, they are interesting, but why not create a different forum called "polls"

If we created a forum specially for polls, then there would be lots of them created, but for no specific reason. This would cause a lot of off-topic nonsense and would be kind of pointless.

Thanks for all your ideas though, we will look at everything together before we make the big changes.

Jon.

[Chuck]

first, i love this forum. it's fun to talk about lego from a european view. As jipay once said, on this forum, we use the word "football" instead of "soccer". Great fun! :P

You bliddy Brish!!!

[ApophisV]

we don't need a topic on future themes, another one on future licences, a third one on "what would you like to see in the future", a fourth "what do you think we'll see"

I tried to solve this by merging similar topics, but the response was not too good.

I divided them again because we were asked to do this and also the first part of the thread was just about Star Wars and the second about licenses in general...

[Mister Phes]

I'm quite happy to abide by the rules however the rules weren't specific or obvious. I was doing anything different from a lot of others here which is why I did it in the first place. I didn't really know any better.

I agree with this comment

however, i do want you, the administrators, to post more, because, Eurobricks doesn't have enough active members. we may have 300+ members, but how many actually do post interesting messages on almost daily basis? very often, topics go "off topic" because we don't have anything more to say about the topic, or we just keep on repeating ourselves...

I've never been told to post less on message board before. 160 posts in one day was a one off and on average I wouldn't exceed about 30. This message board is a lot smaller than what I'm accustomed to so 160 posts would have go unnoticed on those. I've been to message boards with 300 users on at the same time and over 100,000 registered users. There seems to be 1 moderator for every 2 users regularly posting at the moment...

And for removing your birthday song: Sorry, but in that context it had this feeling that you try to make us and also luca look like fools! I said "please keep this thread clean now" and you go on with discussing about moderating! Afterwards I'm sorry for my harsh reaction, but in that situation I was too up set to keep myself from posting those comments!

I explained that I continued discussing moderating because you made those comments public for all to see, so I was justifying myself. If you'd PM'ed me then I would have responded in PM. And if I was trying to make a fool of anyone it would have been a lot nastier and pyschologically disturbing. I was actually trying to get back on topic in a light hearted manner.

Once again there wasn't shown any respect for the people running this place, putting time and effort (and even much money, at least in Jipays case!!! Maybe a little Thank You!!! while I'm talking about it blink.gif) in it and doing so much for the community...

Its hard to be respectful when you don't feel you're being respected . Had the the Hitch thread been dealt with in a less abrupt fashion we wouldn't have created a second. Besides, how often do you thank someone that appears to be giving you a hard time over minor things?

I haven't directly said thank you to Jipay and must have missed everyone else that has too. However, I did contribute to his going away thread, said good bye and come back soon. That was supposedly to show some appreciation and note his signifigance. Obviously it was over looked. I would say thank you right now but it probably would be taken as though I was making a fool out of him or someone else...

It appears you'd prefer less contribution to this board and I can arrange that quite easily...

[Wolf04]

All big changes start with small changes...

I just don't know how you (mister_phes and others) can post so much. I mean, I don't post unless I really want to say something but I have to agree that it is ridiculous seeing how many posts you've made. Compare my join date and number of posts to your join date and number of posts.

I do agree with the rules but what really ticked me off was that on some cases other people say a lot worse stuff but they don't face worse consequences.

For example, in the Bionicle thread with a kid naming his sister, Gali, or something like, I was told I was heading in the direction of David (?...the person who got banned) just because I said that kid is probably some stupid American.

[ApophisV]

I've never been told to post less on message board before. 160 posts in one day was a one off and on average I wouldn't exceed about 30. This message board is a lot smaller than what I'm accustomed to so 160 posts would have go unnoticed on those. I've been to message boards with 300 users on at the same time and over 100,000 registered users. There seems to be 1 moderator for every 2 users regularly posting at the moment...

Lol, HERE we are thinking less big ;)

I explained that I continued discussing moderating because you made those comments public for all to see, so I was justifying myself. If you'd PM'ed me then I would have responded in PM. And if I was trying to make a fool of anyone it would have been a lot nastier and pyschologically disturbing. I was actually trying to get back on topic in a light hearted manner.

In this moment I was already upset because you had continued posting in this particular thread things that hadn't belonged there / things I thought that were meant as sarcastic as the previous comments even if I asked you to keep the thread clean.

And for making fools: If those comments on Jon's moderation work were friendly I really don't want to see you get nasty... :|

Its hard to be respectful when you don't feel you're being respected . Had the the Hitch thread been dealt with in a less abrupt fashion we wouldn't have created a second. Besides, how often do you thank someone that appears to be giving you a hard time over minor things?

I have no idea how we made you feeling not respected, showing somebody that he is chatting too much or such things is not "showing no respect" in my opinion...

And for thanking Jipay: I'm sorry that you misunderstood this, but this wasn't meant as any order to praise our big daddy, it was just a small "Thank you!" from me for him. Nothing more, nothing less. If you feel you don't need to thank him for all his work he does for this place, than just don't thank him. It's up to you. I for myself think he deserves our thanks even if you don't see him posting around here too much he is always very busy with any things related to the site and forum administration. And as I said, he is the guy who puts the money and work in this project that keeps it alive!

It appears you'd prefer less contribution to this board and I can arrange that quite easily...

As I see it you do not really want to think about my words, right? If you think this whole argument can be solved with either the staff managing this board as you want it or otherwise with your retirement than you really should think about the second option.

I would appreciate you to try to help us to find a way that satisfies the most of us, I created this thread because we want to hear your (the members' including you, phes) opinions and we also want you to see things from our point of view, but you, phes, don't make me feel that you really are willing to put a bit effort in thinking about this. We don't want to loose you, we just want you to integrate a bit better here. If you aren't willing to help on this, it's a pity.

[Mister Phes]

It appears you're not understanding me either. We seem to have a communication deficiency.

In this moment I was already upset because you had continued posting in this particular thread things that hadn't belonged there / things I thought that were meant as sarcastic as the previous comments even if I asked you to keep the thread clean.

If you notified me in PM I would have felt less threatened and would have been more cooperative. By publically repremanding me you are also polluting the thread contradicting what you're trying to communicate to me.

I have no idea how we made you feeling not respected, showing somebody that he is chatting too much or such things is not "showing no respect" in my opinion...

Maybe "disrespect" was the wrong choice of word. Perhaps "victimized" would have been more appropriate. I.e. every time I post out of line one of the moderators responds to it in the forum rather than PM. I've noticed that happens to me more than anyone esle, yet I'm not the only one that posts out of line. So the fact I'm targeted more then anyone else gives me the impression that I'm respected less.

And for thanking Jipay: I'm sorry that you misunderstood this, but this wasn't meant as any order to praise our big daddy, it was just a small "Thank you!" from me for him. Nothing more, nothing less. If you feel you don't need to thank him for all his work he does for this place, than just don't thank him. It's up to you. I for myself think he deserves our thanks even if you don't see him posting around here too much he is always very busy with any things related to the site and forum administration. And as I said, he is the guy who puts

the money and work in this project that keeps it alive!

I didn't misunderstand. I already said I contributed to one of his threads [over a week ago now] to acknowledge his signfigance. I obviously communicate different to others here. I don't out right say "thank you", instead say other things to symbolise my thanks. Same with birthday greetings. I'm not one to conform to the majority. I like to be different. Obviously I'm being misunderstood.

As I see it you do not really want to think about my words, right? If you think this whole argument can be solved with either the staff managing this board as you want it or otherwise with your retirement than you really should think about the second option.

I would appreciate you to try to help us to find a way that satisfies the most of us, I created this thread because we want to hear your (the members' including you, phes) opinions and we also want you to see things from our point of view, but you, phes, don't make me feel that you really are willing to put a bit effort in thinking about this. We don't want to loose you, we just want you to integrate a bit better here. If you aren't willing to help on this, it's a pity.

Dude, this thread has been here for under 2 days at the time of writing... I haven't had enough time to think about it yet. What's weighing heavily on my mind at the moment are these hideous things called university assignments. Besides, I'm getting bombarded with a lot of criticism which makes it difficult to concentrate on the aspect of improving this site.

I could have been submissive and not wrote any of this, however, I don't feel as though I'm entirely in the wrong so I've decided to stand up for what I believe in.

Had I been sent a PM rather than been made an example of, or had a thread closed on me then I probably wouldn't have felt the need to write any of this and would have complied to the requests without question...

[xwingyoda]

OK,now all that is past, could we please focus on the main idea of the thread ;)

How members would view changes to our community.

Lets keep in mind that the more of you guys give us your views/comments, the more we can improve to your likings.

Thanks in advance for taking time to help us improve ;)

[Sarg_Kulo]

SO is the off-topic thread a good idea/bad idea?

[ApophisV]

Lol, just make one and you will see if it is a good idea! In the case you're waiting for it, you have my permisson to try this idea out! ;)

[xwingyoda]

Lol, just make one and you will see if it is a good idea! In the case you're waiting for it, you have my permisson to try this idea out! ;)

I don't know where it will lead us - Apo, are you ready, we might have some editing to do :-D ;)

[ApophisV]

I don't know where it will lead us - Apo, are you ready, we might have some editing to do :-D  ;)

Hehe, yes... :D

EDIT by ApophisV:

Sarg, this is the last warning: STAY OFF TOPIC!!! Otherwise I will arrange your account being temporary banned!!!

:P ;)

But for now THIS topic is discussed and so please guys keep your ideas coming! :)

[Sarg_Kulo]

Yaahah, started it. Please go off topic in the community section

[The Middleman]

How odd, arguing and going off topic in a thread about how we're going to crack down on arguments and off-topicness... :P

Anyway, my ideas for Eurobricks:

- more streamlined webpage/forum

- updated smily kit

- a FINAL forum organization (seems to be shifting a lot lately)

- a chat room

I also think you should sell t-shirts, but maybe that's just me.

[xwingyoda]

I would also like a better in forum proportion.

Members should use a little bit less polls and avoid as much as possible multiple subjects on the same (or more or less) topic!!

[Akkhraziel]

Just my two cents:

It might be a very good idea to draw up a set of guidlines for the forum and have them posted. That way all visitors, new and old, will know wht the standing rules are. I'd be happy to assist in this or point the mods in the directions of some sites that have what few rules they have spelled out pretty plainly. I'm not meaning to imply that Eurobricks is in need of lots of rules or anything like that, but having an easy reference puts everyone on the same page of what is and is not allowed.

Additionally, I'd like to encourage all members to make their posts a little bit longer, myself included. It is hard to have a conversation on any given topic when a majority of posts in a topic consist of "Yeah, me too" or "I don't agree." Its not that there is a lack of conversation topics, its just that a lot of people post very short messages that leave little further direction for conversation.

For example: all the "How many of _____ sets do you have." could also just as easily turn into a conversation about that particular line or some of the sets contained within. Why do you like _____ but not blank. Do you not own a set becasue it never appealed to you? Do you think that set ____ is the greatest thing since sliced bread ?

This also will likely cut down on the volume of posts in that in that the conversations will start to go longer and individual posts will look less like a private message reply to something that someone said.

Hmmm, in any event, thats enough rambling for now.

Akkh