Calling Volunteers! Eslandola Vs. Mardier - Build Off

[Jacob Nion]

ESL has three members from ESL? I thought Jacob was included in there.

I'm a privateer! I thought that would something typical sea ratty, to fight other nations wars to earn some DB

[SkaForHire]

I agree, but I think this was supposed to be opened to ESL first, and if they could not fill their side, then they would take on soldiers of fortune, but I will let Kai clear that up.

BTW, the Mardier side pays 10DBs as well!

[dr_spock]

I'm a privateer! I thought that would something typical sea ratty, to fight other nations wars to earn some DB

Maybe you can add a condition to the privateer service contract that if Eslandola wins, they will return the two ships they captured from the Sea Rats on the last MRCA.

[Kai NRG]

Is anyone building for Mardier? (*ominous music begins*)

I might like a slice of that action......

Not yet! Shall we put your name in the Mardier hat?

I agree, but I think this was supposed to be opened to ESL first, and if they could not fill their side, then they would take on soldiers of fortune, but I will let Kai clear that up.

BTW, the Mardier side pays 10DBs as well!

Well... I pretty clearly said in the rules that that was not the case... so maybe it would be better to wait to change it until next time?

Maybe you can add a condition to the privateer service contract that if Eslandola wins, they will return the two ships they captured from the Sea Rats on the last MRCA.

Nope!

[Jacob Nion]

So is there anyone willing to sign up for Mardier or do we call it a victory by default?

[Bregir]

I would say that if no one signs up, and no one builds for any of the sides, status quo remains, and the ships stay with mardier.

I might volunteer for Mardier, but I first need to see if I can get hold of some suitable minifigs... :/ (I am away from most of my collection...)

[Legostone]

I would say that if no one signs up, and no one builds for any of the sides, status quo remains, and the ships stay with mardier.

I might volunteer for Mardier, but I first need to see if I can get hold of some suitable minifigs... :/ (I am away from most of my collection...)

Well, if the Eslandolan Volunteers build something, and the Mardier Volunteers don't I guess the matter should automatically go to Eslandola. If neither side builds something the ships should stay with Mardier though...

[Bregir]

Well, if the Eslandolan Volunteers build something, and the Mardier Volunteers don't I guess the matter should automatically go to Eslandola. If neither side builds something the ships should stay with Mardier though...

Exactly what I was trying to say...

[Legostone]

Exactly what I was trying to say...

Well, thats a misunderstanding on my side then :P

Btw, Vedauwoo, are you still interested in the Mardier Side of this? Then you, JN and Bregir could go for it...

[Kolonialbeamter]

Well, let's say, if no one else is interested in the Mardier side, I'll throw in my hat.

[Captain Dee]

Wait... how exactly can a build-off function without input from both sides? A horse can't race itself. If no-one signs up for Mardier wouldn't the race be off? At the very least I can't see Eslandola claiming both ships without an actual contest. If they build something, I can see giving them one, sure, but both?

Perhaps building for challenges such as this shouldn't commence until both teams are together - and if one team is a no-show, the rules should be prepared to address it.

Why the lack of interest in Mardier until now? Read the rules - what's to gain? But the way it's set up, there's much to be gained for the other side...

Edited April 14, 2016 by Captain Dee

[Kwatchi]

Well, if the Eslandolan Volunteers build something, and the Mardier Volunteers don't I guess the matter should automatically go to Eslandola.

Lol. A challenge was issued to a fictional character and when they don't respond the challenger declares themselves the winner? Is there plans to challenge a hurricane next?

I understand the thinking but this turned a little silly now.

I think there has been ample time for Mardier's champions to step up. The reason no one has can be speculated upon, but one might be that no one wanted to support a borderline attempt to overturn a negative MCRA.

I would suggest a compromise. If the (previous) owner of the Fenix wants to MOC a rescue, let them post it here and the BoBS community can vote if he was successful or not. But as for the lost faction 5A... 'He's dead Jim'.

[Phadeout]

As said previous owner of the Fénix I'd just say it was my only ship so I can sistership it anyway, I was going to do a build as you described but this preparation process has taken up time that I could have used for building that and now I don't see myself getting it done, I will do a more simple take on it for my MRCA result if I get the chance and then use a sistership which will look identical to the one L'Olius has pinched from me.

I think whatever the outcome that this probably isn't the way to go with this type of issue going forward. It sounds fun in theory: practically I don't think it works.

[Captain Dee]

There's no incentive for other factions to get involved - nothing to gain besides 10 DBs for building, but there's big incentive for Esl to be involved. That's why the teams worked out like they did. Seems like a lopsided approach to me.

[Legostone]

There's no incentive for other factions to get involved - nothing to gain besides 10 DBs for building, but there's big incentive for Esl to be involved. That's why the teams worked out like they did. Seems like a lopsided approach to me.

Well, I guess the SR would have kind of a point of weaker ESL convoys, but other than that I must agree, as ESL is currently at peace with the other nations this is a quite difficult situation; this would likely work for any other faction though. I think a fairer solution could be discussed in the New Features for the MRCA Thread?

[Jacob Nion]

There's no incentive for other factions to get involved - nothing to gain besides 10 DBs for building, but there's big incentive for Esl to be involved. That's why the teams worked out like they did. Seems like a lopsided approach to me.

Aye, the problem is that Marsier is an NPC faction. Nobody has the duty to sign up for them. If it was between two player factions they would be responsible to find volunteers. If they couldn't it would be a victory by default.

[Kai NRG]

I would say that if no one signs up, and no one builds for any of the sides, status quo remains, and the ships stay with mardier...

Certainly.

But there's still some time left for Mardier recruits! Who's up for the challenge?

Well, let's say, if no one else is interested in the Mardier side, I'll throw in my hat.

Go for it!

I would actually volunteer for Mardier if it weren't for the fact that I'm Eslandian. I really like this challenge idea and would love to duke it out with another team of three builders.

There's no incentive for other factions to get involved - nothing to gain besides 10 DBs for building, but there's big incentive for Esl to be involved. That's why the teams worked out like they did. Seems like a lopsided approach to me.

What happened to fun and glory?!?

If Mardier can't get a team together, then the issue will have to be addressed, of course. But let's give it until the end of the week at least.

[Sir Stig]

I suggest another option that can be done with a select few NPC captured ships in the future. Maybe a bimonthly/quarterly build off, where the winning entry gets the ship. This could be a montage of 6 builds, 2 pictures max per build, cooperation allowed in order to build a bigger scene/more scenes to the story. Then for instance, the TCs, the factions, other constellations could contribute and compete for joint ownership. Someone are better at writing the stories, some are better with microbuilds, some better at closeups, etc. It would be a challenge in photography to get the essence of the build in max 2 photos per build. I think we could see some very interesting builds and stories this way. That's what this is about. I like the idea of a build off, but the details around it and execution has the potential to be better.

[dr_spock]

There's no incentive for other factions to get involved - nothing to gain besides 10 DBs for building, but there's big incentive for Esl to be involved. That's why the teams worked out like they did. Seems like a lopsided approach to me.

30 DB to gain 550 DB of ship licenses (5A + 2T). A more appropriate incentive would be to offer the NPC volunteers 550 DB from the ESL coffers if they win. Or at least 50% of license values (275 DB).

[CelesAurivern]

'He's dead Jim'.

What are you, a doctor?

Seriously though, there's very little lore about Mardier to tap on. It'll be good to have more info so that it can be represented accurately

[Jacob Nion]

What are you, a doctor?

Seriously though, there's very little lore about Mardier to tap on. It'll be good to have more info so that it can be represented accurately

There's enough basic information in the background thread. Rest is up to you. But it's likely that Mardiers architecture and culture is very similar to Eslandola, since Eslandola is a former territory of Mardier.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Jacob Nion

[Maxim I]

I like the idea of rewarding the winners with db's matching a bigger percentage of the value. For example (1/(x+1) in % of the value for each builder (with X builders in a team).

It still is a cheap getting back for Eslandola if they win, and it is interesting for all participants.

Only 2 remarks:

- The participants should be choosed wisely and fair... Not a system like: first dibs wins (not everyone of us can check everyday the forum).

- Also Eslandolans can participate in the opposite camp. If we are talking about 200 db's for participating and winning, it is very interesting...

[Bregir]

It is in its construction a loopsided affair, as Eslandola cannot possibly lose anything, but stands to gain two vessels. (Unless of course there will be diplomatic consequences of winning this challenge...)

Thus, it is clear that the interests in this for Eslandola are much larger than for anyone else. However, as this is supposed to be standard procedure for all vessels from all factions captured by NPC's who have no use for them, that balances out. (Although it does have a bias towards those taking decisions that might result in capture.. )

On a challenge to challenge basis, though, I would say interests balances out. In the spirit of friendly (HAH! ) competition, we all (Non-Eslandians) have an interest in keeping them from reclaiming those ships. (Although there is a possible free rider problem)

As a solution, I could suggest that the afflicted faction (i.e. Eslandola) must put forward three builders for their side, while each of the other factions appoints 1. (And that these cannot have been chosen for the last x challenges)

And I very much object to letting people rout against their faction. Even if this is not mis-used, the suspicion of such alone will only lead to animosity (OOC).

Generally, however, I do think this is a questionable mechanic, and I hardly see why these ships can't just sail the seas as traders, assuming Bloody Bill sold them to an NPC merchant. (Or taken out of the game entirely. They are likely to be sistershipped anyway, so we are at risk of flooding the market with vessels. And NPC captures was a good "vessel-sink", if you ask me.)

In principle, this is a great story mechanic, and I don't object to minichallenges (but take care not to overdo it - the community has a saturation point.), but this just seems too loopsided.

As to the lack of information on Mardier, I really do not see this as a big problem - you are welcome to elaborate on the faction yourself - that is really what this is all about.

[Kolonialbeamter]

Go for it!

What happened to fun and glory?!?

Going for it! I'm officially signing up for Mardier.

*Throws in Colonial Minion's head hat*

For fun and glory!

[Kai NRG]

As Bregir has (sort of) pointed out, although Eslandola as a faction has incentive to get a team together, the only Eslandian individuals that have any incentive (other than the 10 DB reward) to build would be those whose ships have been captured.

The rest of the factions as factions and as to a lesser extent as individuals have an incentive to keep Eslandola from getting back a warship, plus of course the 10 DB reward.

Just to be clear, too, this has nothing to do with the ships captured by Bloody Bill.

As far as sistershiping and flooding the waters with ships - under MRCA v.1 rules, sisterships can be licensed at any time, so that's a point that could always be brought up.

The solution of appointing builders is a possible one, but really it would be much nicer to have volunteers.

The solution of offering higher rewards for Mardier builders is not a bad idea. After all, if Mardier is able to hold on to its ill-gotten gain, it would make sense for it to pay those that helped it out a fair amount.

As far as the possibility of allowing Eslandians to sign up against Eslandola in the latter case, I tend to think that builders should be restricted as little as possible. But that would certainly generate some IC suspicion and it could lead to OOC conflict too I suppose. But I'm not sure that if a builder were willing to take it on, he should be prohibited.

(Side note: One of these ships can't become a trader because it's a warship.)

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This (a build-off) is policy for all NPC factions that capture ships without being in a state of declared war against the faction that they have attacked. So it's good to make sure we have it all hammered out.

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Going for it! I'm officially signing up for Mardier.

*Throws in Colonial Minion's head hat*

For fun and glory!

Bravo! Let's see some pineapples!