Bionicle 2016 Sets Discussion

[TwistLaw]

The Bohrok were miles better than the Skull Squad for very simple reasons.

For the time they were an incredibly original toy, they had a coherent design, they were cute in their own way and last but not least they had a lot of play value. All things the Skull Squad had partially or missed completely.

You're zombies? I get it. But that's not a good design choice to begin with, since you're selling ROBOTS (I hate to inform you that plastic is terrible to represent biomechanical beings, unless you do things à la Piraka), and robo-zombies aren't an amazing concept for kids. The closest thing to a zombie robot popular culture offered us was Terminator, and I wouldn't call that exactly kid friendly.

But we had the zombie squad anyway, and it was... well. The concept was executed reasonably well keeping in mind the restrictions designers had, but it still was short from being amazing. They were just there, not standing out even from the winter Toa. Let alone the Bohrok...

BIONICLE needs something original and coherent like the Bohrok and the Rahskhi. Until that day it will struggle to be noticed again by the great audiences.

And the summer beasts sure don't look promising.

[Ikaatril]

Would you really pick the Bohrok over the Skull Villains if you'd never seen them before, though? You have these bright, appealing, uniform sets that look alien but appealing, and then you have these non-uniform sets with largely dull colours where some look almost literally sloppily built and thrown together by a 5 year-old child (Skull Scorpio). Kids would pick the Bohrok, no contest about it - that's a fact. The G2 villains just don't capture the appealing-ness of so many G1 villains: they all insist on using one dull, dark colour and a transparent colour, and nearly no bright and appealing colours. Kids like bright colours.

[DraikNova]

G1 sets were generally pretty bad. Early sets managed to get a cohesive look by sticking to technic and a few simple parts, but then they decided to try and move away from technic while keeping the complex look, which didn't work out too well. G2's villains are pretty lacking as well, but it's definitely not the fault of the color palette. I mean, purple and lime is a far brighter and more "popping" color scheme than any G1 set had.

Take your mention of "ridiculous numbest of recolors and specialized molds". I'm not sure I even agree with that, since even as someone who reviews sets with an emphasis on those parts the number doesn't really seem excessive. But a set WITHOUT many of those sorts of parts would be a hard sell even if it were a fantastic build. New parts offer fans building opportunities they couldn't get without the set, while even the most impressive use of older parts might just inspire them to do the same with the parts they already have. The trick is to provide a useful and impressive selection of new parts without breaking the budget, which, yes, might mean that some corners might have to be cut. But that's preferable to the alternative, an amazing, solid build that just doesn't have that essential shelf appeal.

I'd like to note that almost every wave of G2 seems to introduce several recolors, quite a few of them unique to one or two sets within said wave. Plus, we get like two or three new weapon molds per wave as well (despite the fact that CCBS could be used for this as well). This despite the fact that all you really need for shelf appeal is to stand out. Unique parts and recolors are not the only way to do that. Just using parts in colors that have already been made to reduce the part of the budget spent on new molds and the like versus the budget for the actual number of parts results in a far more coherent and visually appealing set.

And if I just eliminated the gearbox from any of the Beasts and used one or two more armor shells in the same colors as appear in said set, it'd already look a lot better. And gappyness is something you see while it's on the shelf, the functions you only notice when you decide to look at it, which isn't much help if you never decide to do so.

Edited February 23, 2016 by DraikNova

[TwistLaw]

G1 sets were generally pretty bad.

Stopped reading there.

[DraikNova]

The Toa Mata and Toa Nuva (and their associated villains) had very little posability. Understandable as they were some of the first, but pretty bad by today's standards. The Toa Metru were pretty good in terms of proportions and posability, but were abandoned after one wave for the Hordika/proto-inika build, which was flat and had odd proportions. Excusable in the case of the Hordika, since they were meant to look warped, but still an odd design choice. The Inika build, meanwhile, featured generally freakish proportions, with shoulders almost as wide as the body was long. Meanwhile, titans were the only ones which diverged seriously from this look, but they did so by using pieces not used at all in smaller sets, meaning that you couldn't build a titan-like MOC using just the pieces from normal sets.

In general, sets were lower quality, with the villains being slightly more interesting than the toa. And I'm glad it's that way, since it means LEGO is improving, at least in the long term.

[Logan McOwen]

I can't say I disagree with you on anything there, Draik.

[TwistLaw]

The Toa Mata and Toa Nuva (and their associated villains) had very little posability. Understandable as they were some of the first, but pretty bad by today's standards. The Toa Metru were pretty good in terms of proportions and posability, but were abandoned after one wave for the Hordika/proto-inika build, which was flat and had odd proportions. Excusable in the case of the Hordika, since they were meant to look warped, but still an odd design choice. The Inika build, meanwhile, featured generally freakish proportions, with shoulders almost as wide as the body was long. Meanwhile, titans were the only ones which diverged seriously from this look, but they did so by using pieces not used at all in smaller sets, meaning that you couldn't build a titan-like MOC using just the pieces from normal sets.

In general, sets were lower quality, with the villains being slightly more interesting than the toa. And I'm glad it's that way, since it means LEGO is improving, at least in the long term.

While most of what you said is true, the quality part is subjective. If you mean parts quality, it's only a matter of the latter years. If you mean quality overall, it's as I said subjective.

I'd take Brutaka, Lhikan or Jaller Mahri over most G2 sets. Applying today's standards to older stuff is never an appropriate choice, moreover if tastes are concerned.

Saying that most G1 sets were bad is a preposterous claim. Saying they had faults is an objective and provable statement.

[Lyichir]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, then. As you've said, the point of shelf appeal is to stand out—and I think the diverse and unique Skull Villains do that a heck of a lot better than six identical Bohrok. Plus, when the argument gets to the point where someone accuses a set of "looking like it was built like a five-year-old", you know there's absolutely no reasoning with the other side. Personally, I've never seen a five-year-old's MOC that looked anything like Skull Scorpio, because novice builders tend to either copy what they've seen in sets or just slap on as much detail as they can without any regard for aesthetics. You know what you don't ever see from five-year-olds? Models with extremely conservative use of detail and incredibly effective functions that have never been seen before on any other set.

EDIT: Also, I just realized that no one has clarified what exactly would make "Bohrok equivalents" some sort of magic bullet that would turn the new Bionicle into a success. The Bohrok were successful sets, no doubt about that. But that was largely a consequence of WHEN they were released rather than any sort of intrinsic quality that modern sets lacked. The Bohrok were the first canister villains, and helped to follow through on the initial success of Bionicle by creating a set of affordable, collectible villains (as opposed to the Rahi, which were much more expensive). Their design, while well-polished, had very little to do with their breakout success, and I don't see any reason why the Skull Villains themselves have any less collectibility other than the lack of canisters and randomized Krana (sales gimmicks that would not just be a huge step backwards for modern sets but which would also lack the novelty they had back in 2002).

Edited February 23, 2016 by Lyichir

[xboxtravis7992]

Anyway... New Elementary is publishing Scott and Andrew's reviews of the 2016 sets now; and Aanchir's photos just made me realize that with some posing Uxar's legs cover Lewa's shoulders matching his 2015 shoulder armor. That's some fine design right there, especially in mimicking one of his 2015 features.

Now all I need is the money for these Bionicle sets, plus the Star Wars sets, and Superhero sets, and that $200+ HO scale train locomotive, and that DSLR Camera; and an entire $3000 college semester tuition. I better get saving :)

[Volthoom]

G1 sets were generally pretty bad.

Agreed. Sadly most people here are blinded by nostalgia to see that the G2 sets are so much better.

[Quisoves Pugnat]

Agreed. Sadly most people here are blinded by nostalgia to see that the G2 sets are so much better.

Are we? I seem to recall the general reaction to 2015's Toa here being "These are some of the best BIONICLEs ever!" So while the memory cheats, we're by no means incapable of loving Gen2's sets more than than Gen1's. Heck, a fair amount of the criticism of 2016's sets, it seems to me, has been along the lines of "this is everything that went wrong with Gen1!"

[Bbrink1996]

Agreed. Sadly most people here are blinded by nostalgia to see that the G2 sets are so much better.

That might be pushing it a little. I don't think Skull Scorpio, LoSS, the 2015 Toa are better than G1 sets while I do agree the Protectors, 2016 Toa and Umarak are some of the best figures Bionicle has ever had.

Both G1 and G2 have their good and bad sets.

[TwistLaw]

Agreed. Sadly most people here are blinded by nostalgia to see that the G2 sets are so much better.

Wow wow, slow down need-ga. As Bbrink1996 said there are many sets in G2 questionable, to say the least. And you can't really compare two years with nearly a whole decade. If you want to do that, the ups of G1 simply tower those of G2. If you want to be rational, and I like rational people, you should in the first place put aside every assumption you can make about people being blinded by nostalgia.

Nobody here says "durr CCBS a sheet, old Bonkle was so much better!!11!", nobody. There are people like me who recognize the faults of G1 but wouldn't ever consider it "bad", simply because what it did... it did good, most of the times, or at least in an acceptable way. There's really no point in demolishing a toy line that sold so much (or at least, sold enough to last for ten years) in order to celebrate a single year of CCBS -tons of people here dislike 2016, leaving 2015 as the lone year BIONICLE was ever good for some-.

If there are so many things you dislike about BIONICLE, and so many people feel the need to underline those faults, why are you even in a BIONICLE forum in the first place? To glorify a single year of sets? Oh boy.

One thing is saying "the Toa Nuva sucked because they had no bendable knees", one other is saying the whole G1 is trash. Eurobricks is like an upside down world, never would I have thought of finding a place on the internet where people were defending so strongly Hero Factory over BIONICLE.

I myself LOVE G2, the winter waves of 2015 and 2016 are soft chocolate brownies for my hungry tummy. The summer ones... well, that's another story.

But it's like going to a car club of sorts and saying cars until the '60s sucked, were only good in the 70's and turned to sheet from the 80's. Go to a 70s car club, that would be the best option for you.

[VBBN]

Some discussion of 2016 vs Bionicle G1 is fine, but let's make sure we keep the focus of the discussion around the 2016 sets.

[TwistLaw]

Some discussion of 2016 vs Bionicle G1 is fine, but let's make sure we keep the focus of the discussion around the 2016 sets.

Yup, sorry if I lost my temper a bit.

But it's kind of a dead period for set discussion, since we won't be seeing anything new for another seven months, and until june we won't have in hands the beasts.

While we're about, what's your opinion on the matter? Do you still like G1 or just see it as a "nine year long mistake"?

Sorry VBBN, I had to do it. Please don't wield your patience on me.

[xboxtravis7992]

I like a lot of G1 and G2. I admit both have had their flaws, and both have had their successes. I hope that doesn't make me a pariah in this discussion :)

[Kalhiki]

*gif*

Well if Hayao Miyazaki said so, I guess it must be true!

[VBBN]

While we're about, what's your opinion on the matter? Do you still like G1 or just see it as a "nine year long mistake"?

I don't see it as a 9 year long mistake. I also don't really judge G2 against it. LEGO is approaching G2 in it's own way, and it's certainly hard to judge 2 years of G2 vs 9-10 of G1. In a way it's like comparing old LEGO Town to City, or old Star Wars to the new Star Wars sets. Lego parts evolve over time, as do building styles. I can't say that G2 is what G1 should have been- it took 10 years and the evolution into Hero Factory to arrive at this building style, and again we are evolving still.

But yes, I still like G1. Sure it has it's flaws, just as G2 does, but I like it for what it is, and I don't really compare it against what we've gotten this year. (I don't think I have mentioned Bionicle G1 at all in my reviews of G2 sets, other than maybe a few references to mask design or whatnot.)

[Bigger Fish]

BZPower just posted a ToyFair video showing off some of the functions of the summer sets. Again, Storm Beast's function looks to be the most fun to goof around with.

http://www.bzpower.com/story.php?ID=8407

[Kalhiki]

Just watched it.

I must say, seeing video of the sets and getting different angles has re-kindled some faith in these. They don't look too terrible. I dare say I may end up picking a few of these up. Though, I'll probably wait a while after they're released and see if I can get 'em on clearance. Still not a top priority.

[Fulcrumfan91]

Storm Beast is brilliant. That one is probably the only one I'll get from this wave in particular.

[Logan McOwen]

My love for Storm Beast and Lava Beast has only been further kindled

[Voxovan]

Wow that Quake Beast function works even worse than it looks :P

[xboxtravis7992]

Storm and Lava for the win!

[Ikaatril]

So the jaws are moved by the eyestalk, and since Umarak has a 'normal' mask, it means his jaw function + mask conflict with each other...