The Superchief looks much smoother and better designed. BTW, I am just voting on the Lego trains, I have absolutely no knowledge of trains in reality, so I don't know which train is really better, just which one looks nicer in Lego form.

Suggestion: Could a Mod add a poll to this?

Now for the discussion: I would have to say the BNSF for me. It has a much nicer color scheme IMO. It also is a cargo train engine, the Super chief is a passenger train and I do just not like the style of it or the colors. I prefer high speed trains or maglevs in LEGO, and maybe the Metroliner too because the amtrak train engine it is based on is really nice.

Better yet, here is a pre-existing poll of the exact same topic started by TheBrickster.

Better yet, here is a pre-existing poll of the exact same topic started by TheBrickster.

Thanks for locating Fyparr. I knew I had done a Triple Face-Off with these and the Swiss Crocodile from Hobby Train, but I could not seem to locate this one. It is an old topic but had some responses just a few months ago.

Topic merged.

Good discussion though.

Not an easy choice... Being a Yurpian I don't have much affinity with either of the prototypes. The Chief was the first of a new breed of Lego trains in terms of detailing and the use of SNOT. The BNSF fits better into the existing train series. It's easier to build for children and can be used for a wider range of trains.

The colour scheme is a matter of taste but red/yellow/grey for me wins over orange/yellow/green.

So... my vote goes to the Santa Fe.

I would say the chief. It's huge design makes it a really nice train. The bnsf is a bit ordinary, however, it is a much more practical train in my layout.

I also vote for the Super Chief, simply because it was something completely new and

brilliant in Lego Trains theme.

I had a really nice head-to-head comparison of the prototypes, but a Firefox crash nuked it. Have to see if I can rebuild it...

I voted for the Superchief. I like the streamlined front. The BNSF is just another boxy diesel to me.

I have none of them in my 'collection', so my opinion is strictly based on pictures.

Both engines are very well designed, dare I say, even better than the EN (?!). They actually look like a real engine, where the EN (as well as the hobby train) don't come close enough to the original.

The super chief was the beginning of a new era for trains and even though it did not use any special (new) colors, it does not harm the model in any way. But what, I think, is even more important than a great loc, is the availability (through TLC) of nice carriages, something the BNSF engine did not have (exept for the TTX cars). The 'bad' thing about the SC is the fact that it doesn't look good with other (older) TLC cars attached behind it, something the BNSF does !

Even though the BNSF engine did not have a lot of rolling stock to add, it still is a great creation. Nice new bricks and/or colors and I must say, it lookes better in 6 wide than does the SC. The blocky appearance it has is not the result of bad designing, it is the opposite of it. Doesn't the real thing look just as 'square'... (?)

So, if I would have to choose an american (!!!!) passanger train, it would have to be the super chief. The only downside maybe was (and now certainly is) the price you'd have to pay for a train (engine + 2 or 3 cars), but still, 120$ (at the time, with 80$ added if you would like tracks, trafo and motor)) was good value for money. The BNSF engine is a great cargo engine, and can be combined with a lot of (older) cargo cars.

Both engines are very well designed, dare I say, even better than the EN (?!). They actually look like a real engine, where the EN (as well as the hobby train) don't come close enough to the original.

I'm sorry? Which side of the Atlantic do you live? You're saying that the Emerald Night does not come close to the original? And which of the 30 models in the Hobby Train are you referring to?

While the Chief is a nice model it's not quite in the same league as the Emerald Night if you'd ask me.

I'm sorry? Which side of the Atlantic do you live? You're saying that the Emerald Night does not come close to the original? And which of the 30 models in the Hobby Train are you referring to?

While the Chief is a nice model it's not quite in the same league as the Emerald Night if you'd ask me.

The good side :P, just kidding, I live in Belgium.

TBH, I prefer European railways far above the US ones, maybe that's the reason why I am being a bit harsh for the EN. The model looks nice, but if I compare it to some MOC from people accross the globe, Lego could have a done a better job. Never forget, that is what I (!!!) think, maybe I just have 'bad' taste ;). What I like a lot about the EN, is the car, it looks wonderfull and comes close to the pullman.

And I was referring to the main model (the crocodile) from the Hobby train ;). I've always compared that train to the 4551 crocodile (OBB series 1020), and the 4551 really comes close to the real thing, where as the hobby train crocodile misses something...But again, that is what I think.

*thomas* - first off, about those carriages. The Santa Fe Super Chief was extremely popular as a train, not just an engine. The luxury that the train itself provided was unrivalled back in those times, and so it was only natural that LEGO would produce additional carriages to be sold beside the engine itself. The observation that the Santa Fe doesn't look good with any of the older waggons is spot on - but then again, of course it wouldn't!!! Would the Orient Express look good pulling logging cars? Didn't think so! :P

Now, as to the carriages of the BNSF GP-38 - that is a cargo train. Almost no cargo train has a specific set of wagons it hauls. On quite a few occasions, GP-38s have even been used as shunters! So I feel that the wagons available from the My Own Train selection would all make a perfect addition to the GP-38.

As to the Emerald Night - even though I don't yet own it, I must say that you're not being fair to the set here. What it brought along was not only bricks in new colours, but also a new era for LEGO Trains in general. Still, comparing that to MOCs built by train experts such as SavaTheAggie or BMW just won't do it justice - don't forget that TLG are very strict about they are willing to release as a set and I believe that the Emerald borders on the complexity that they would want to feature in official sets. AFOL MOCcers, on the other hand, have no restrictions and can build the biggest and greatest trains, as demonstrated time and time again.

Back on topic though - I really think that one can only truly appreciate both of those sets if one sees them in person... which is pretty much the case with most LEGO Exclusives. Even though my own vote here went to the Santa Fe because I'd just bought that one back then, my significant other Otter's favourite out of those two is the GP-38 - and I must it is indeed a very close call.

*thomas* - first off, about those carriages. The Santa Fe Super Chief was extremely popular as a train, not just an engine. The luxury that the train itself provided was unrivalled back in those times, and so it was only natural that LEGO would produce additional carriages to be sold beside the engine itself. The observation that the Santa Fe doesn't look good with any of the older waggons is spot on - but then again, of course it wouldn't!!! Would the Orient Express look good pulling logging cars? Didn't think so! :P

The SC is a legend as a whole train (loc and cars), so it was fantastic that TLC did make an effort to reproduce the whole train :). Totally agree with what you are saying about that.

Now, as to the carriages of the BNSF GP-38 - that is a cargo train. Almost no cargo train has a specific set of wagons it hauls. On quite a few occasions, GP-38s have even been used as shunters! So I feel that the wagons available from the My Own Train selection would all make a perfect addition to the GP-38.

TBH, I had forgotten about the MOT cars :P, sorry. Indeed they look good begind a GP38 !! So extra credit to TLC.

As to the Emerald Night - even though I don't yet own it, I must say that you're not being fair to the set here. What it brought along was not only bricks in new colours, but also a new era for LEGO Trains in general. Still, comparing that to MOCs built by train experts such as SavaTheAggie or BMW just won't do it justice - don't forget that TLG are very strict about they are willing to release as a set and I believe that the Emerald borders on the complexity that they would want to feature in official sets. AFOL MOCcers, on the other hand, have no restrictions and can build the biggest and greatest trains, as demonstrated time and time again.

Just been looking at the TLC EN and some real pictures such as the A1 and A3, and altough it comes close to the original, something is bothering me about the TLC set, just don't know what.

*thomas* - first off, about those carriages. The Santa Fe Super Chief was extremely popular as a train, not just an engine. The luxury that the train itself provided was unrivalled back in those times, and so it was only natural that LEGO would produce additional carriages to be sold beside the engine itself. The observation that the Santa Fe doesn't look good with any of the older waggons is spot on - but then again, of course it wouldn't!!! Would the Orient Express look good pulling logging cars? Didn't think so! :P

I beg to differ--you've never heard of the Twentieth Century Limited? (Which has been described as "the most famous train in the world except only the Orient Express"... and archrival PRR's Broadway Limited was a close second.)

Now, as to the carriages of the BNSF GP-38 - that is a cargo train. Almost no cargo train has a specific set of wagons it hauls. On quite a few occasions, GP-38s have even been used as shunters! So I feel that the wagons available from the My Own Train selection would all make a perfect addition to the GP-38.

There's a reason it's called a Road SWITCHER--the GP series was designed, as with its conceptual ancestors the BL2 and NW5, to have road-engine speed, power and endurance while still having the short length and high visibility in each direction required for a successful switcher, and from them evolved the 6-motor SD's, originally created for higher power at lower speed like drag-freighting in the coalfields.

IIRC, the GP38-2 has almost double the power of the F3/F7 (they're pretty much the same aside from bodywork, and Santa Fe had all their passenger and dual-use F3s rebuilt into F7 bodies), along with much more advanced microprocessor controls. (Which was part of the Dash 2 upgrade-package.) Biggest problem is, if you need to check out an engine farther back in the power consist, you better keep a Spock Death Grip on that rail... on the F, ya got the bodywork to catch you, even if it is only plywood with a thin metal sheet on each face.

*snip*

Erm... OK... Thanks for all the clarifications.

Regarding the 20th Century Limited, yes I have heard of it, but no, I haven't had the opportunity to use its services. Or the Super Chief's services, for that matter. Since they were used for marginally different lines (same applies to a comparison between the Super Chief and the Broadway Limited as well), I guess we can never have a viable platform to compare just how luxurious either one was on a scale of 1 to 10. That said, it does take a certain amount of luxuriousness in order to be chosen to haul movie stars to and from Hollywood, which is what I was referring to when I said that the Super Chief's quality was "unrivalled".

As to the GP-38, yes it is/was frequently used for shunting / switching duties. Thank you for the detailed info on that. Have you actually driven one?

On a sidenote / back to the topic - I never professed to be a train pro, I was just pointing out that the GP-38 never actually required any "carriages" in order to look realistic in the LEGO world, whereas the Super Chief most definitely did, seeing as how inadequate passenger cars from the 90s looked behind it.

Otters, the Century was the route of choice for the wealthy and powerful from NY to Chicago, and in the '50s it even exchanged sleepers with the Super Chief for transcontinental service. (I doubt Santa Fe woulda let their flagship train exchange cars with anything they didn't consider its equal...)

Geeps, I've been in a full-scale simulator cab, and F's I've been inside the engine-room of a preserved unit. When I say "advanced", I don't mean at the hand-on-throttle level like modern desktop-controls, but rather in electronics controlling the engine, generator and power-distribution to the motors. (I actually have the Ops & Maintenance manual for a 60-series unit around the office, and am familiar with the E7 manual as well thanks to contacts at the NYC RR Museum in Elkhart and their library.) Essentially, all the '38 is is a downrated model of the 3000hp GP40--usually, in any model series there's a specific sequence for model numbers. Using the 40-line as an example:

Zero: (GP40/SD40) basic model

Five: (SD45) uprated, high-power derivative (note: SD45 added four cylinders, going from a V-16 645 to a V-20 645)

Eight in previous series (GP38): downrated model focused more on switching

Nine " " " (SD39): downrating for fuel-economy or range, seldom used aside from oddities (examples include SDL39: a GP38 body on a long SD45 frame and trucks with the biggest fuel tank that would fit, built for low-power but long-range use and GP59: hood-unit base model for Amtrak and commuter-lines' F59PHI)

I'd say, for different regions, the Top Tier trains were:

Northeast: NYC 20th Century / PRR Broadway

Southwest to LA: ATSF Super Chief / UP COLA & COSF / CB&Q/D&RGW/WP California Zephyr

Southeast: Southern Crescent / assorted SAL Meteors and ACL Champions

Northwest: GN Empire Builder / NP North Coast Ltd / MILW Olympian Hiawatha

Note: not a professional railroader, but I have many years of study into the railroad-history field--my specialties are '30s-'50s streamliners and Fairbanks-Morse "covered wagons". Actual road experience, I've rode shotgun on a little 44-ton industrial switcher, and been inside NKP 765 while it was disassembled for maintenance, along with "stuffed-and-mounted" cab-time in one of the last two NYC Mohawks and an SP Cab-Forward.

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Now playing: Visual Music, James Hannigan and Andrew Sega - Sigma Space Suite

via FoxyTunes

Edited October 27, 200915 yr by Diamondback

Great discussion guys!

Unless I missed it above, right after the BNSF locomotive was introduced, we did see the TTX Intermodal Double-Stack Car (10170). This freight car was a great addition and a very realistic model that one could add to the locomotive (aside from the My Own Train freight cars). I just regret not ordering a few more. I purchased one, but never got around to building.

I must admit that while I love the Super Chief, I always thought that the passenger/dining cars were so bland with the light grey color. I'm looking at them now on a small train shelf - just solid grey.