BuWizz - High Performance LEGO Power Functions Controller and Battery

[wower]

Brief moment of hope and then.. meh (I have different BT controllers but no PS4/5, XBOX). Buwizz why you do this to me..

[gyenesvi]

1 hour ago, wower said:

Brief moment of hope and then.. meh (I have different BT controllers but no PS4/5, XBOX). Buwizz why you do this to me..

Have you tested it already? Or just got discouraged by the advertised feature? I agree with others that it has a chance to work with others as well, do to the generic BT controller implementation in the OS, it's just that they have not tested it with others.

Edited January 27, 2024 by gyenesvi

[Alex Ilea]

I have tested the app with my Ipega controller and it works ok, but I see no improvement in lag over the Beta version (yes I tested the beta with the same Ipega controller).

Also, when using the controller with buwizz 2.0, the play screen does not show  Buwizz Speed Modes, even though I have set up in the Controls Layout. So you are stuck in normal mode.

Edited January 27, 2024 by Alex Ilea

[wower]

2 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

Have you tested it already? Or just got discouraged by the advertised feature? I agree with others that it has a chance to work with others as well, do to the generic BT controller implementation in the OS, it's just that they have not tested it with others.

Nope, waiting for the video they promised to explain how it should work. If it takes a mobile phone to set up it's worthless anyway, only thing I'd use for my kids is direct remote/battery-receiver combo like mouldking (but ideally with the performance of a buwizz). How neither lego nor buwizz are selling such a combo is beyond me :-(

[dustblue]

There is a bug which the new app didn't fix, I've brought this up in this thread before but @Zerobricks said he can not replicate this bug, so I didn't do further tests. Today I updated the app and tried many different setups, and I can confirm the bug exists now and I think I know why zero cant replicate this bug in his setup.

So the bug is: if you use 2 or more buwizz 3 in one profile, and use 2 or more PU L motors for center steering, if the 2 PU L motors are connected to 2 different buwizz 3 batteries, there will always be one PU L that can not function properly. The key here is they have to be connected to 2 different BW3, not in 2 channels of one single BW3. That may be why zero can not replicate this bug.

I know most of the time if you need 2 center steering PU motors, connect them to one single BW3 is no harm. However, I always play big mocs with length often more then 60 cm long, and PU motors can not be extended by wire, so I have to use 2 different BW3 for that, hence I can see the problem but no one else.

None the less it's a bug, I hope buwizz can fix it.

 

[aFrInaTi0n]

Take a look at Ali... the connectors are also called "WeDO 2.0" - think besides adapters from PU to PF there are also some PU extention cables available.... (would also be agood product to sold from Lego... xD)

Just as an example for showing those can be ordered separately for DIY solutions:

 

Edited January 27, 2024 by aFrInaTi0n

[dustblue]

26 minutes ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

Take a look at Ali... the connectors are also called "WeDO 2.0" - think besides adapters from PU to PF there are also some PU extention cables available.... (would also be agood product to sold from Lego... xD)

Just as an example for showing those can be ordered separately for DIY solutions:

 

Yes I did a taobao.com search too there is no readily available extension cords for pu motors. If I like DIY I can just cut the cords and extend it with cable and tapes(I can), I'd rather not go through the hustle.（That's also why I bought 8 BW3 when RC batteries are so much cheaper and more powerful)  

Hell if I like go dirty play RC and 3D printing etc has so much more potential, why lego:))

[vascolp]

There are extensions: https://pv-productions.com/product/powered-up-extension-cable/

But they are expensive... never tried them.

[aFrInaTi0n]

pfffffffffffffffffft, 30 euros each... hilarious - then one can get the same motor for the same price and really cut and solder the cables longer in DIY...

[Lego Tom]

2 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

pfffffffffffffffffft, 30 euros each... hilarious - then one can get the same motor for the same price and really cut and solder the cables longer in DIY...

DIY cables offer some real benefits if one is capable. They can be made to exact lengths, mitigating the need to hide excess cable and they can be made using more flexible wire, making runs easier to do. Given the ends are available, I might give this a go.

[dustblue]

On 1/27/2024 at 10:20 PM, dustblue said:

There is a bug which the new app didn't fix, I've brought this up in this thread before but @Zerobricks said he can not replicate this bug, so I didn't do further tests. Today I updated the app and tried many different setups, and I can confirm the bug exists now and I think I know why zero cant replicate this bug in his setup.

So the bug is: if you use 2 or more buwizz 3 in one profile, and use 2 or more PU L motors for center steering, if the 2 PU L motors are connected to 2 different buwizz 3 batteries, there will always be one PU L that can not function properly. The key here is they have to be connected to 2 different BW3, not in 2 channels of one single BW3. That may be why zero can not replicate this bug.

I know most of the time if you need 2 center steering PU motors, connect them to one single BW3 is no harm. However, I always play big mocs with length often more then 60 cm long, and PU motors can not be extended by wire, so I have to use 2 different BW3 for that, hence I can see the problem but no one else.

None the less it's a bug, I hope buwizz can fix it.

 

Another suggestion: could you make all channel lights color and brightness in one profile adjusted by one single slider? I almost never change them because it's stupid to change 16-32 slider bars just to change the color, and it's impossible to make them the same. @zerobricks

[NoEXIST]

8 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

pfffffffffffffffffft, 30 euros each... hilarious - then one can get the same motor for the same price and really cut and solder the cables longer in DIY...

Ali solutions also seems to be okay as you're not afraid of melting cables or something because there's no big load on PU motors

[Toastie]

15 minutes ago, NoEXIST said:

melting cables or something

oh yes ... I guess the connection (plug/socket) will get rather hot at some amperage, as this is the place of highest resistance in the circuit if not done with care or when there is some oxidation (P=IxR^2). 9V train switches are good examples when you let some serious long hauls with proper multiple 9V train motor configurations thunder across the track. The juice is usually flowing nicely within the track sections (maybe even equipped with multiple power feeds) but also the poor lil' mechanism inside a switch has to swallow all the electrons and spit them out at the other end ...  

On another thought: I believe there is also quite some data traffic between PU hub and motor in case the latter is not of the type "dumb" (dumb as in train motor and other non-tacho motors), isn't there? That may be affected also, when the cables become too long and not nicely done, no?

Best,
Thorsten

Edited January 28, 2024 by Toastie

[dustblue]

 

I found a solution to dead BW3 in high load. I always build my mocs very big so each wheel is generally driven by 2-3 buggy motors, and each BW3 can drive 2 Buggy, but if load is high(say gear ratio too bold), I would encounter a dead BW3 in high load. @Zerobricks suggested to use current limits but that never works for me. Today I was building a small moc in which each wheel(lego audi red wheel) is only driven by one Buggy, but there is no gearing down, using one BW3 to drive 2 wheels always give me a dead BW3. So I wonder what if I use only one BW3 to drive one buggy(leaving the other PF channel empty)? And yes the problem is solved! the currents were as high as 3.9A, but never again did any BW3 die on me, even the low voltage one!

So my conclusion is a dead BW3 is caused by total power output, not per channel. Since the battery core inside is pretty pathetic, the best way to deal with dead BW3 would be more BW3....

 

21 minutes ago, Toastie said:

oh yes ... I guess the connection (plug/socket) will get rather hot at some amperage, as this is the place of highest resistance in the circuit if not done with care or when there is some oxidation (P=IxR^2).

Nah it's very easy you won't melt the cables. Just do it correctly, soldering would definately be safer if you are worried.

[Toastie]

39 minutes ago, dustblue said:

Just do it correctly, soldering

Oh yes, I tried to say this ^^ - avoid plugs and sockets just "bolt" the wires on (OK, solder them) - wires don't melt. Plastic around bad connections may.

Best,
Thorsten 

[Zerobricks]

On 1/27/2024 at 3:20 PM, dustblue said:

There is a bug which the new app didn't fix, I've brought this up in this thread before but @Zerobricks said he can not replicate this bug, so I didn't do further tests. Today I updated the app and tried many different setups, and I can confirm the bug exists now and I think I know why zero cant replicate this bug in his setup.

So the bug is: if you use 2 or more buwizz 3 in one profile, and use 2 or more PU L motors for center steering, if the 2 PU L motors are connected to 2 different buwizz 3 batteries, there will always be one PU L that can not function properly. The key here is they have to be connected to 2 different BW3, not in 2 channels of one single BW3. That may be why zero can not replicate this bug.

I know most of the time if you need 2 center steering PU motors, connect them to one single BW3 is no harm. However, I always play big mocs with length often more then 60 cm long, and PU motors can not be extended by wire, so I have to use 2 different BW3 for that, hence I can see the problem but no one else.

None the less it's a bug, I hope buwizz can fix it.

 

I already found this bug when building the Universal Offroader V2, where originally one BuWizz 3.0 is suppose to take care of steering and other for gearbox. It is planned to be fixed.

[NoEXIST]

12 hours ago, dustblue said:

So my conclusion is a dead BW3 is caused by total power output, not per channel. Since the battery core inside is pretty pathetic, the best way to deal with dead BW3 would be more BW3....

Sounds a bit off, if your BW3 can't handle advertised amount of motors, you need another one

[dustblue]

13 minutes ago, NoEXIST said:

Sounds a bit off, if your BW3 can't handle advertised amount of motors, you need another one

Exactly man, I need them but I hate them so much

 

1 hour ago, Zerobricks said:

I already found this bug when building the Universal Offroader V2, where originally one BuWizz 3.0 is suppose to take care of steering and other for gearbox. It is planned to be fixed.

Great, thanks bro!

[dustblue]

Found another very seirous problem: during play the system would go nuts and dont respond to controller command(first appears latency), but move randomly by itself, I hit wall/furniture several time because of this. This is very dangerous, outplay with mocs is mostly in parks and there are kids there, it could cause serious accidents and even legal problem for buwizz. My moc is sometimes 6kg and move fast, imagine this thing get out of control and hit some todlers....

 

@Zerobricks

[Zerobricks]

@dustblueCan you please report such issues to the support?

Thanks...

[gyenesvi]

21 minutes ago, dustblue said:

Found another very seirous problem: during play the system would go nuts and dont respond to controller command(first appears latency), but move randomly by itself, I hit wall/furniture several time because of this. This is very dangerous, outplay with mocs is mostly in parks and there are kids there, it could cause serious accidents and even legal problem for buwizz. My moc is sometimes 6kg and move fast, imagine this thing get out of control and hit some todlers....

 

@Zerobricks

This may be related to the latency problem I found and reported but never got a reply to. Basically, it seems that the Buwizz is not fast enough for processing controller input, meaning that new controller positions come in faster than they are processed, and it starts building a long backlog and ends up executing commands that were issued a few seconds ago. For me it was really visible with quick steering and qick forward-backward direction changes.

The same problem does not exist with technic hubs, because those drop the queued commands when a new one comes in (for each motor independently), so it does not get flooded. The Buwizz firmware should do the same, but that would require an update..

As far as I know BC2 tries to mitigate this problem by sending controller commands with some 10-20 ms delay to avoid flooding the BW, but that introduces a latency on its own, although still less problematic because it does not end up acting on its own for a few seconds.

Any plan to deal with this problem?

6 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

@dustblueCan you please report such issues to the support?

Thanks...

I did report my version already, was that ever reviewed?

23 hours ago, dustblue said:

This does make sense now that we know that the battery is only 5C. So maybe a battery with higher C rating could be a solution and would make using amp limiters unnecessary. Would be interesting if someone could test..

Edited January 29, 2024 by gyenesvi

[Aurorasaurus]

2 hours ago, dustblue said:

Found another very seirous problem: during play the system would go nuts and dont respond to controller command(first appears latency), but move randomly by itself, I hit wall/furniture several time because of this. This is very dangerous, outplay with mocs is mostly in parks and there are kids there, it could cause serious accidents and even legal problem for buwizz. My moc is sometimes 6kg and move fast, imagine this thing get out of control and hit some todlers....

 

@Zerobricks

Ive had similar issues but it helps me to be in areas with low interference and keep the phone and the controller close together. Could just be that, for you.

[Toastie]

3 hours ago, dustblue said:

This is very dangerous, outplay with mocs is mostly in parks and there are kids there, it could cause serious accidents and even legal problem for buwizz

And for you, if I am correct? I mean, a thing that apparently can deliver 100W total, as per the public BW website, operated in a public space, with a total rest mass of 6 kg, surely needs some attention of the operator - everywhere. As in: Choose remote areas for light speed experiments ... otherwise, driving a Tesla vehicle through a public space with toddlers present may as well get Tesla in trouble, should the electric brain in there short circuits.

Forget it, I am just kidding

That bug is really nasty!

Best,
Thorsten

[dustblue]

3 hours ago, Toastie said:

And for you, if I am correct? I mean, a thing that apparently can deliver 100W total, as per the public BW website, operated in a public space, with a total rest mass of 6 kg, surely needs some attention of the operator - everywhere. As in: Choose remote areas for light speed experiments ... otherwise, driving a Tesla vehicle through a public space with toddlers present may as well get Tesla in trouble, should the electric brain in there short circuits.

Well, it turns out your tesla speed up when you brake.

 

3 hours ago, Aurorasaurus said:

Ive had similar issues but it helps me to be in areas with low interference and keep the phone and the controller close together. Could just be that, for you.

Nah I was at home, interference maybe, but very close together.

 

6 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

This does make sense now that we know that the battery is only 5C. So maybe a battery with higher C rating could be a solution and would make using amp limiters unnecessary. Would be interesting if someone could test..

Yes that's my thought too. definately some false advertisement.

[shroomzofdoom]

Finally got around to testing out the controller function. Worked flawlessly for me on a PS4 DualShock!

#@*!# YEAH BUWIZZ!!! Love this!!!