BuWizz - High Performance LEGO Power Functions Controller and Battery

[HectorMB]

Thanks @Zerobricks for the info. I'm nevertheless a bit surprised by that the info you mentioned is not easy to find in the website (indeed I couldn't find it at this moment). Is there any place in the website that is updated on this regard? Also I would expect some kind of newsletter -i double checked in my mailbox, but unsuccessfully-, like the one we received some time ago, to tell about the evolution of the app. I'm just asking, and it's also possible that I missed something!

 

[amorti]

I only have bw2, but the model I'm building calls for two buggy motors and a PU motor fits to steer it.

Could someone please let me know about the centering behaviour of a bw3 with a PU L motor?

Is it able to settle on a centre which is not at an even 90° point, but half a tooth off? In the case I have in mind, it would need to be half a tooth on a 20 tooth gear off a 90° point ; 9° if my maths is right.

Edited May 5, 2022 by amorti

[Jayden]

2 hours ago, amorti said:

I only have bw2, but the model I'm building calls for two buggy motors and a PU motor fits to steer it.

Could someone please let me know about the centering behaviour of a bw3 with a PU L motor?

Is it able to settle on a centre which is not at an even 90° point, but half a tooth off? In the case I have in mind, it would need to be half a tooth on a 20 tooth gear off a 90° point ; 9° if my maths is right.

It does a calibration in the select the port that the motor is driven of and then it works according to the endpoints. So it will work.

[suffocation]

Is anyone else stuck with BuWizz 1.0 having trouble getting it to connect to the BuWizz app? I can connect to the unit with BrickController2, so it appears to work fine, but I really need the BuWizz interface for my models.

[recklessGlitch]

So I Motorized the Delorean 10300 back to the future time machine. 
Because of the size I went for poered up (smaller Servo options)
I tried both: The powered up hub and the Buwizz 3.0
My resume:
The small powered up hub cannot handle a large motor for driving, even geared down 3:1! That was a bummer to find out.
I settled with a medium motor for driving and a medium linear Motor for steering.
Then I went for the Buwizz. And i found out, it cannot control a medium linear motor for centered steering, because, as Buwizz service told me, it has no absolute position.
So I had to use a large motor for steering also, but okay.
The buwizz still has a problem, that sometimes when finishing the drive mode, it gives a burst to the steering, which may break the mechanism. Be carefull. They promised to solve that with the next firmware update.
The buwizz 3.0 is not as programmable as the sbrick, but it has 12V, included batteries and 6 outputs, 4x powered up but also 2x of the power functions. I use one of them to power the LED light kit. But you can also use older motors, like the buggy or chinese large motors, etc. And it should be programmable with the new sbrick app. that would be a great combination for small builds, if also very expensive.

If you're interested in the outcome of my time machine:

 
Building instructions on rebrickable

Edited May 28, 2022 by recklessGlitch

[aFrInaTi0n]

2 hours ago, recklessGlitch said:

So I Motorized the Delorean 10300 back to the future time machine.

Mind about putting it into a distinct thread? I am no mod or any but I would like to keep to primary Buwizz-related topics in this thread.

[Gorkron]

"it cannot control a medium linear motor for centered steering, because, as Buwizz service told me, it has no absolute position."
Wait, what? How come it doesn't have a position sensor if it can be used as a servo-motor with a City hub, similar to 45607 small angular motor?
@aFrInaTi0n I believe he's talking about Buwizz for the most part. Well, mostly about missing features, but still.
@recklessGlitch I'd suggest to use a City hub (small powered up hub) with Ni-Zn batteries, at least to see if it can handle L-motor with a higher voltage with your model (tested it with some of sets myself, no, it won't fry it or anything). As for medium linear motor as servo it can be programmed with PyBricks.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Gorkron

[Gimmick]

17 hours ago, Gorkron said:

"it cannot control a medium linear motor for centered steering, because, as Buwizz service told me, it has no absolute position."
Wait, what? How come it doesn't have a position sensor if it can be used as a servo-motor with a City hub, similar to 45607 small angular motor?
 

Medium linear motors only have relative positioning, that's why Powered Up recalibrates every time by default (and why Lego models include mechanical stops). With abs. positioning, you do not have to recalibrate (and you do not have to use mechanical stops) since the abs. angle for the center-position does not change. If Buwizz uses this information, only Technic/Mindstorms/Spike motors will work.

[gyenesvi]

6 hours ago, Gimmick said:

Medium linear motors only have relative positioning, that's why Powered Up recalibrates every time by default (and why Lego models include mechanical stops). With abs. positioning, you do not have to recalibrate (and you do not have to use mechanical stops) since the abs. angle for the center-position does not change. If Buwizz uses this information, only Technic/Mindstorms/Spike motors will work.

Hmm, now I wonder what you mean by relative positioning, if I’m missing or misunderstanding something. As far as I know, medium linear motors don’t have any position info (no sensor inside). Furthermore, even linear L motors usually need mechanical stops and recalibration, though they have position info, although the abs zeros is not marked on them, as on angular motors.

[Toastie]

28 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

As far as I know, medium linear motors don’t have any position info (no sensor inside).

I believe linear medium PUp motors do have such a rotation sensor inside with 1° degree resolution. They don't have an absolute position encoder, which means that when you power on the electronics within the motor (i.e., plug them into a hub and turn the hub on), it does not know where absolute zero is, it just counts degrees up/down from its current position. Linear L PUp motors, according to Philo's motor page know both the relative (as per relative to the position they have when powering them), as well as absolute position, however they have no position zero mark on the case/shaft, which is weird but ... so you have to find out, where that zero position is.

Hmm. I don't know - when it is like that, then you should be able to get the abs. zero info from the hub. Never tried that thought ...

Best,
Thorsten 

[Gimmick]

1 hour ago, gyenesvi said:

Hmm, now I wonder what you mean by relative positioning, if I’m missing or misunderstanding something. As far as I know, medium linear motors don’t have any position info (no sensor inside). Furthermore, even linear L motors usually need mechanical stops and recalibration, though they have position info, although the abs zeros is not marked on them, as on angular motors.

It's like @Toastie said. The 0° position in L/XL-Motors is "somewhere" and you need to read the abs. angle "by hand". But if you know, that '103°' for example is a mechanical relevant position, you can calculate other positions - maybe for a gearbox or steering. That's useless if you have to turn the motor more than one of course :D

[gyenesvi]

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

I believe linear medium PUp motors do have such a rotation sensor inside with 1° degree resolution. They don't have an absolute position encoder, which means that when you power on the electronics within the motor (i.e., plug them into a hub and turn the hub on), it does not know where absolute zero is, it just counts degrees up/down from its current position. Linear L PUp motors, according to Philo's motor page know both the relative (as per relative to the position they have when powering them), as well as absolute position, however they have no position zero mark on the case/shaft, which is weird but ... so you have to find out, where that zero position is.

Hmm. I don't know - when it is like that, then you should be able to get the abs. zero info from the hub. Never tried that thought ...

Best,
Thorsten 

3 hours ago, Gimmick said:

It's like @Toastie said. The 0° position in L/XL-Motors is "somewhere" and you need to read the abs. angle "by hand". But if you know, that '103°' for example is a mechanical relevant position, you can calculate other positions - maybe for a gearbox or steering. That's useless if you have to turn the motor more than one of course :D

So here's what I know out of experience with programming the PU motors through the Lego Wireless Protocol. I have written a diagnostics (desktop) app to test hubs / devices connected to it, to read out all the available info and test control the motors.

I believe what @Toastie said is true only for L/XL motors. When you connect an L/XL motor you can query that it has various control/readout modes (power, speed, relative position, absolute position). In relative position mode, you can position it to the zero position relative to the position where it was on startup (this zero position can be overridden). You can move the motor any number of turns away from the relative zero position. In absolute mode, the zero is always the same position, even though it's not marked, but in zero position the axle hole becomes aligned with the edge of the motor (you can query the current position, and you can move to zero). You can only move within -180 / +180 degrees of the absolute zero position. The PU L/XL motors are larger than their PF counterparts to accommodate the positions sensor.

When you connect an M motor, the query only shows one mode of operation, the power mode, you can only increase / decrease the power, as with PF. Furthermore, the size of the PU M motor is the same as that of the PF version. So I doubt that there would be any position sensor in there that is not revealed by the Lego Wireless Protocol. That's why I was surprised to hear that the M motor would have relative positioning. I believe both relative and absolute positioning uses the same position encoder hardware in these PU motors, so it's either both there, or none.

So what I did not understand in the first place is why it was expected that the BuWizz could control the PU M motor as a servo, when no other application can do that, because of this HW limitation. The only technic set that uses the PU M motor is the Zetros for the diff lock, but it does not use it as a servo, just as a regular M motor.

On 5/28/2022 at 1:46 PM, recklessGlitch said:

The buwizz still has a problem, that sometimes when finishing the drive mode, it gives a burst to the steering, which may break the mechanism.

I also ran into this bug with the BuWizz however.

[Toastie]

38 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

So here's what I know out of experience with programming the PU motors through the Lego Wireless Protocol. I have written a diagnostics (desktop) app to test hubs / devices connected to it, to read out all the available info and test control the motors.

And that is the most powerful and reliable way to do it - nice. I really appreciate this way more solid information as compared to what is out there. (Well, as far as I searched!)

But again (sorry for being slow): I believe PUp M is relative only, PUp L and XL is on you/us. 

Is that correct?

Best,
Thorsten

[gyenesvi]

7 hours ago, Toastie said:

But again (sorry for being slow): I believe PUp M is relative only, PUp L and XL is on you/us. 

Not sure I get this, I just explained why I believe the PU M motor is just the same as the PF M motor, no position encoding whatsoever.

[Gimmick]

9 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

 as with PF. Furthermore, the size of the PU M motor is the same as that of the PF version.

 

49 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Not sure I get this, I just explained why I believe the PU M motor is just the same as the PF M motor, no position encoding whatsoever.

Classic communication problem:

"Medium Linear Motor" -> 88008 -> https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/medium-linear-motor-88008 -> has relative position encoding

"Simple Medium Linear Motor" -> 45303 -> https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/simple-medium-linear-motor-45303 -> no encoding.

[Toastie]

4 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

Classic communication problem

I guess so ... and nicely supported by the brilliant naming of all the PUp devices, TLG came up with!

Best,
Thorsten

[johnnym]

1 hour ago, Gimmick said:

"Simple Medium Linear Motor" -> 45303 -> https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/simple-medium-linear-motor-45303 -> no encoding.

Slightly off topic: This one's already flagged as "Retired Product". What does TLG use in the Zetros then?

[Gorkron]

8 minutes ago, johnnym said:

Slightly off topic: This one's already flagged as "Retired Product". What does TLG use in the Zetros then?

Same motor, different part number according to rebrickable/bricklink: 21980. Motor, Medium, We-Do 2.0

Medium Linear Motor (88008) was used in two Boost sets: 75253, 17101. It's a shame there is a such miscommunication with names/part numbers.

[gyenesvi]

5 hours ago, Gimmick said:

Classic communication problem

Oh, indeed, I did not even think of that other motor.. Thanks for pointing this out! Now it's interesting to hear that that one has relative positioning. I can't test that as I don't have it.

[howitzer]

5 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Oh, indeed, I did not even think of that other motor.. Thanks for pointing this out! Now it's interesting to hear that that one has relative positioning. I can't test that as I don't have it.

I think it does as it's included with the Boost set, which has many programmable building options (essentially a Mindstorms set for younger kids).

[Toastie]

15 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Now it's interesting to hear that that one has relative positioning

I have one (from BL) - and I can confirm that you can tell this motor to move xyz degress and it does.

Best,
Thorsten 

[HectorMB]

On 5/30/2022 at 9:28 AM, Gimmick said:

 

Classic communication problem:

"Medium Linear Motor" -> 88008 -> https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/medium-linear-motor-88008 -> has relative position encoding

"Simple Medium Linear Motor" -> 45303 -> https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/simple-medium-linear-motor-45303 -> no encoding.

That's just a pitty...

[recklessGlitch]

On 5/29/2022 at 7:15 PM, Toastie said:

I believe linear medium PUp motors do have such a rotation sensor inside with 1° degree resolution. They don't have an absolute position encoder, which means that when you power on the electronics within the motor (i.e., plug them into a hub and turn the hub on), it does not know where absolute zero is, it just counts degrees up/down from its current position. Linear L PUp motors, according to Philo's motor page know both the relative (as per relative to the position they have when powering them), as well as absolute position, however they have no position zero mark on the case/shaft, which is weird but ... so you have to find out, where that zero position is.

Hmm. I don't know - when it is like that, then you should be able to get the abs. zero info from the hub. Never tried that thought ...

Best,
Thorsten  

Yep, Nobody said the mediums have no position sensor. They do. They just down know where zero is, so you have to find out. Never the less its a pitty buwizz cannot handle them

On 5/28/2022 at 4:08 PM, aFrInaTi0n said:

Mind about putting it into a distinct thread? I am no mod or any but I would like to keep to primary Buwizz-related topics in this thread.

Yeah, okay, that was advertisement, but with some pretty buwizz related content as you can hopefully see by the follow-up discussion. I had wished to have found that info somewhere on the forums BEFORE building my motorization twice and spending hours of searching the problem.

[gyenesvi]

I am currently testing my build for the BuWizz camp coming up soon. I am using one BuWizz and 2 BuWizz motors. The performance is amazing (never had so much fun with a lego car, it really feels like playing with an RC toy), however, the BuWizz itself shuts down completely occasionally. It does not react to the power button, but if I put it on a charger, it comes back to life immediately and it's not depleted (for example at 60%), I can still continue playing with it without recharging. This repeated 3 times today after about 5 minutes of play each time (maybe each time it took less time to shut down again). Did anyone have similar issue? Any ideas what could be the reason? Is it maybe drawing too much power occasionally? (The firmware is up to date according to the BuWizz app, and I am using BrickController2 for control).

[keymaker]

7 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

I am currently testing my build for the BuWizz camp coming up soon. I am using one BuWizz and 2 BuWizz motors. The performance is amazing (never had so much fun with a lego car, it really feels like playing with an RC toy), however, the BuWizz itself shuts down completely occasionally. It does not react to the power button, but if I put it on a charger, it comes back to life immediately and it's not depleted (for example at 60%), I can still continue playing with it without recharging. This repeated 3 times today after about 5 minutes of play each time (maybe each time it took less time to shut down again). Did anyone have similar issue? Any ideas what could be the reason? Is it maybe drawing too much power occasionally? (The firmware is up to date according to the BuWizz app, and I am using BrickController2 for control).

I did, with my Armored Trophy Truck. I needed to change gearing a little to reduce power consumption during starts/stops. There is no solution for this problem as far as I know.