BuWizz - High Performance LEGO Power Functions Controller and Battery

[Zerobricks]

I recommend we handle this on support, send an E-mail and please put as many details as possible, such aa phone type, application, control profile, etc...

[shroomzofdoom]

I'm an android user and have a PS4 controller that I use to control my buwizz 3.0. 

Everything works fine from the Buwizz perspective but when I record video with the pop-up video recorder app the PS4 controls the pop-up instead of the Buwizz. Assuming this is because it's in the foreground. Using the pop-up with touchscreen controls is no problem however the controller seems to want to control the foreground app at all times. Once I minimize the recorder it stops recording

This isn't a Buwizz problem more like an android problem.

Curious if anyone uses their controller this way? It's kinda nice to run everything from one device without having to use a second camera but I couldn't find any settings for this 

Or am I doing it all wrong?

Edited August 24, 2024 by shroomzofdoom

[EvilEnderman]

On 8/6/2024 at 8:08 PM, Zerobricks said:

I recommend we handle this on support, send an E-mail and please put as many details as possible, such aa phone type, application, control profile, etc...

Cheers! Downgrading the version to 3.2.8 fixed the issue, been working reliably since changing versions.

To digress a little,

Has anyone done a "Thermistor delete" on a BuWizz motor? When I'm absolutely caning it for more than 5 minutes at high speeds, the thermistor kicks in and it takes a good while for the resistance to drop again. The motors don't feel warm to the touch. I wonder if the thermistor is specced conservatively. 

I've got some knackered old BuWizz motors that I've been using for off road stuff, tempted to take one for the team and test it out...

EDIT:

Had the idea to move the thermistor away from the surface of the motor a little by cutting up the motor casing.

This works a treat, ran 10 minutes, proper giving it some welly, and the motors were begging for more! Surface of the DC motor felt a bit warm, but not hot.

For reference, the thermistor inside the BuWizz motor is a Littelfuse 30R110U, Ambient hold current: 1.10A  Ambient trip current: 2.20A

Will see if this lasts many months and kilometers more of abuse! 

 

Edited September 4, 2024 by EvilEnderman
Results of test

[nerdsforprez]

Hello Everyone - 

 

Looks like there is at least some chatter on this thread for troubleshooting BuWizz problems.  I own BW 2.0 and it is telling me that I need a firmware update.  When I press the red icon for "update firmware" nothing happens.  5th line down, right after "waiting for BuWizz 2 to restart... it just stays in "connecting..." mode.   The BuWizz unit is just blinking red lights.  

 

ANy advice? 

[Aurorasaurus]

9 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

The BuWizz unit is just blinking red lights.  

 

ANy advice? 

Does the flicking get faster when you try to connect to it? If so, yours is in an overloaded or whatever it is state where it just wont work. Dont charge it; let the battery completely drain, you'll have to turn it back on a few times, but once its completely dead charge it up again and it should be fine until you seriously overload it again :)

[Jay Psi]

27 minutes ago, Aurorasaurus said:

Does the flicking get faster when you try to connect to it? If so, yours is in an overloaded or whatever it is state where it just wont work. Dont charge it; let the battery completely drain, you'll have to turn it back on a few times, but once its completely dead charge it up again and it should be fine until you seriously overload it again :)

Yep, this is exactly what happened with my BuWizz 2.0, which is now updated and working. Hopefully, yours will take fewer tries to update than mine (~25 over the course of a week - the unit would connect but not begin writing the blocks).

[nerdsforprez]

19 hours ago, Aurorasaurus said:

Does the flicking get faster when you try to connect to it? If so, yours is in an overloaded or whatever it is state where it just wont work. Dont charge it; let the battery completely drain, you'll have to turn it back on a few times, but once its completely dead charge it up again and it should be fine until you seriously overload it again :)

TY for the response.  I deleted the whole app, then re-downloaded it.  Ran the firmware update again and it worked.  Thanks!

[pankov]

Hi
I've purchased 4 BuWizz controllers in the last couple of years and after the initial excitement lately I haven't been able to use them and was surprised to find 2 of them dead ... and seemingly unrevivable (not turning on and after attaching to the charger I get the spinning red pattern on all ports). I did carefully leave them a few months ago in neither fully charger nor depleted state (battery status showed medium) which is similar to the storage state for all other lipo batteries I use for dedicated RC (non-Lego) models and was wondering what I could have done wrong here. Is is possible that there is phantom drainage of the battery from controller itself? Is there a dedicated "storage" mode that I can active somehow to preserve the batteries better?

... and finally - what are my options for changing the batteries? Did someone manage to find ones that fit somewhere online?

I still haven't contacted Fortonik/BuWizz themselves but I'm afraid what their answer might be so what's the community advice on this matter - should I try this or don't even bother?

[aFrInaTi0n]

https://buwizz.com/shop/buwizz-3-0-pro-replacement-battery/

 

Here you go - their initial lies of free replacements were just scam... 🤷🏻‍♂️

[FriedlS]

1 hour ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

https://buwizz.com/shop/buwizz-3-0-pro-replacement-battery/

 

Here you go - their initial lies of free replacements were just scam... 🤷🏻‍♂️

The whole BuWizz is a lie, in my opinion. My BuWizz 3.0 is death. The battery couldn’t be charged anymore. The replacement battery is to expensive according to the expensive BuWizz Brick. Very disappointing product with a great marketing (just like MS Windows…)

cheers Friedl

[aFrInaTi0n]

Yeah, I arrived at  that opinion too - too many claims which weren't achieved or even tried to achieve (see their future app updates lie, nothing happening since over two years).

But to be fair with them: I wouldn't blame them for degrading batteries... it is LiPOs in the end and they will degrade over time, doesn'y matter if they were used /charged at all, wrongly or correctly... 

Edited October 23, 2024 by aFrInaTi0n

[FriedlS]

30 minutes ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

Yeah, I arrived at  that opinion too - too many claims which weren't achieved or even tried to achieve (see their future app updates lie, nothing happening since over two years).

But to be fair to them I wouldn't blame them for degrading batteries... it is LiPOs in the end and they will degrade over time, doesn'y matter if they were used /charged at all, wrongly or correctly... 

Yes that maybe a LiPO Problem…but wondering about it, because I haven’t had any issues with LiPOs in my RC toys….

[aFrInaTi0n]

Maybe their bcs is shitty and destroying the batts in the long run - do you have a LiPO tester or charger? Because I would really be interested what those smart chargers would say to the Buwizz battery.. (think they have a plugable batt in the buwizz, so could be removed without soldering - but not sure if that connector would be fitting to regular LiPO chargers).

For the costs: yeah 20 € per battery unit is much - but I think I may order two just in case as replacement (did look already if I can find the same type with the same connector, but internet didn't deliver anything fitting - at least none where small quantities could be bought, think I found a fitting one without connector, but one needs to order 1000+ units...). As also Buwizz may have limited stock on the replacements batteries, which would render the Buwizz units completely useless.

Edited October 23, 2024 by aFrInaTi0n

[HectorMB]

5 hours ago, FriedlS said:

The whole BuWizz is a lie, in my opinion. My BuWizz 3.0 is death. The battery couldn’t be charged anymore. The replacement battery is to expensive according to the expensive BuWizz Brick. Very disappointing product with a great marketing (just like MS Windows…)

cheers Friedl

Is my opinion too. Few weeks ago I was talking with few friends who jumped into technic and where looking for alternatives for powering the MOCs and I strongly discouraged them to do it by BuWizz. I feel sorry, but this is my final opinion after many opportunities and absolutely squeezing my patience. 

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, FriedlS said:

(just like MS Windows…)

Hey!

Don't get me started :D - I am happily using Windows since Win 3.0 was introduced. And before that, I jumped on board with DOS 3.0. And yes, I have no clue, what I am doing right. It crashed back in the days now and then, but later, it simply worked - I may have used it without my men-in-black-sunglasses My last blue screen is win-millennia away ... Whatever (believe me, I have 500% Mac, 200% Linux, and 400% C++ totally convinced absolute freaks (i.e., very nice individuals I have very much fun with) in my research group). They also happen to reinstall this and that from time to time - I never reinstalled Win - I fixed it - somehow). Maybe being a chemist helps - we ... try out things, and claim of course it worked, when it worked. And don't talk about it, when not.

Now, what is going on here: It would be very helpful to learn about the different scenarios. One is: LiPo charged half-megablocks, put away for months, attempting to recharge then and . No way to resurrect it. What else? LiPo fully charged, put away for months - ??? It would be helpful to know exactly when your charging/resurrection of the BW did not work anymore.

Are there any phantom currents, when the BW is turned off? No. There are real currents! It has to recognize the "on" button, when the charger is applied, all that. So the thing listens, what's happening on its in/outputs - and that needs some current to flow. After months, the LiPo is totally drained, should there be no totally drained protection, as virtually every LiPo circuity should have. LiPos don't like to be drained to zero - or better below a certain level. Should these BW folks forgot about that: Screw them. Which does not help at all.

But: Totally drowned LiPos can be resurrected; you need to disconnect them from the BW circuitry though and then treat them nicely.

Here is one link, don't blame me, if that does not work: https://www.instructables.com/Restoring-over-discharged-LiPo-Lithium-Polymer-bat/

This is all pure speculation - I don't have a BW. But I have devices discharging below the critical level, if unattended.

Should BW folks talk about this issue: For sure! But don't simply trash otherwise nicely designed systems, as I will never abandon MS

Folks, here is to feeling good:  

Best,
Thorsten

[aFrInaTi0n]

Thanks for the adds with the PCB / ICs possibly pulling ongoingly on the batt!

[pankov]

@Toastie,
thanks for the link and the reasonable explanation what could be causing the depleting of the batteries and the link to the possible revival procedure for LiPo batteries.

It all makes a lot of sense now that you've laid it out like that and you got me thinking on how exactly are these BuWizzes stored originally ... or shipped in general ... because I had just opened a brand new one bought almost an year ago that I never managed to finish the build I bought it for and it behaved a bit differently.

I couldn't turn it on using the button ... so obviously the controller inside wasn't listening to it ... and only when I plugged in the charger it blinked and was brought back to life. Interestingly it was almost fully charged - the status leds were blinking green and after a very short charging cycle it was fully charged. So somehow this BuWizz was put in some kind of storage state where it wouldn't kill its battery.

Does anyone know how this can be achieved?

 

Going back on the topic of reviving the dead batteries I was wondering if someone knows the pinout of the breakout cable of the battery? There are six cables (3 red and 3 black) which I can only presume are divided in 4 that belong to the balance port (after all it's a 3s battery) and 2 for the main current ... but having them all at the same gauge/thickness makes me doubt that logic so I'd be glad if someone can shed some light on that.

[aFrInaTi0n]

wonderful, do I need to recreate all my profiles again or what stupid reason no controls are being shown / the buwizz unit is not connecting anymore into a profile after I hit "Drive"? In the settings I can still change the PU colors - so connection is possible there but not when I want to use the app.... %^&#^*%

[Aurorasaurus]

5 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

wonderful, do I need to recreate all my profiles again or what

Just use brickcontroller, its so much more reliable. You just need to watch out and drive carefully because theres no current limits available in BC2 yet.

[aFrInaTi0n]

Yeah, it may finally be the time I need to switch - thanks for reminding! ♥

[Toastie]

10 hours ago, pankov said:

and only when I plugged in the charger it blinked and was brought back to life. Interestingly it was almost fully charged - the status leds were blinking green and after a very short charging cycle it was fully charged. So somehow this BuWizz was put in some kind of storage state where it wouldn't kill its battery.

Nice that it worked!

However, there is no "killing". There is chemistry going on inside a LiPo. Or in any battery/rechargeable.

A true one-way battery delivers voltage and thus current as long as chemical redox reactions inside that thing find a way to get to a lower state of energy/entropy. When that chemistry is finally happy, i.e., it is at thermodynamic equilibrium, the battery is usually considered "dead". Which is nonsense - such a battery has found chemical peace. 

Rechargeables are essentially the same thing, but the chemistry inside is reversible. "Charging" means driving the chemistry to one equilibrium, i.e., the charged state. Draining it means driving the chemistry to - well - the "drained" equilibrium. Batteries don't allow you to reverse the redox reaction system, which is, from a chemistry cost standpoint, cheap: Trash them. Chemicals used inside rechargeables are comparably "expensive"; but need some attention

It appears as if your storage state was something in between the two extremes of equilibrium: "Allowed fully loaded" and "allowed empty", which is >not< zero Volts, but something well above zero. Deciding on "allowed" versus "not" is the task of "electronics" ... when that electronics was designed as: "X Volt is bad", the "thing" will just play dead, and not allowing charging the LiPo. But the LiPo is certainly not "dead", it is out of (self-defined) safety specs.

Best regards,
Thorsten 

[aFrInaTi0n]

Possibly to add: If I remember right the ideal temps for operating (charging and discharging LiPOs) is around 40°C. Critical limit on colder temperatures is 10°C as the chemical reactions can't work fast enough to deliver the needed current and chances are high for them instead shortening and with that damaging the cells.

So operating them in winter is not considered a good idea if one plans for them being in a good state over plenty of years :D

[pankov]

11 hours ago, Toastie said:

Nice that it worked!

.....

appears as if your storage state was something in between the two extremes of equilibrium: "Allowed fully loaded" and "allowed empty", which is >not< zero Volts, but something well above zero. Deciding on "allowed" versus "not" is the task of "electronics" ... when that electronics was designed as: "X Volt is bad", the "thing" will just play dead, and not allowing charging the LiPo. But the LiPo is certainly not "dead", it is out of (self-defined) safety specs.

Best regards,
Thorsten 

Sadly I think you misunderstood my post. It's only the brand new (untouched) BuWizz 3.0 Pro that I bought an year ago and never had the chance to even turn on once that started working after "waking it up" by plugging in the charger. The other two BW3.0 simply don't work which made me believe that there is a "hidden" storage state that BuWizz/Fortonik is using for shipping their products which successfully preserves the batteries for long periods.
Btw I also have one BuWizz 2.0 that was left in this semi-charged state as the two failed BW3.0s at exactly the same time more than 6 months ago and it is working just fine - it turns on and holds charge without any issues ... so it must be something in the BW3s that's different.

@Zerobricks,
from your knowledge and experience is there anything we can do to stop this depleting of the batteries of the BW3.0 bricks in the "off" state? Is there any secret command/combination that we can put them in "deep-off" state?

[Zerobricks]

There should be a command in the API, but currently I'm unable to check which exactly, since I'm recovering from surgery... 

[aFrInaTi0n]

@Zerobricks All the best wishes for recovering fastly!

@pankov: Also not 100% sure on this, but from my previous researches on LiPO topics it seems to be possible to add another chemical in the production, which is hindering a battery to degrade. those chemicals themself will degrade in the first discharges&charges.. but currently having no sources at hand.. just mentioning this may be a common practice for lipo producers..