MARDIER COLONY La Isla de Medio

[SkaForHire]

Due to recent misguidances about geography and the power of the Great Old Empire, the Empire of Mardier. This thread is for the colony of La Isla de Medio, known by the name of Skaford Heights or Island 11.

 

It has come to note that this colony is much older than many of the colonies in the Sea of Prio area.  Like King’s island, it was founded roughly three  years ago.  It boasts three large settlements one with a royal fortress, (La Puebloto).  It has a robust citrus export trade, and the Bay of Good Hope has been considered a safe harbor for Mardieran traders for years now.  The native peoples have been pacified and have begun to be assimilated into the Mardieran work force. The island is well travelled and documented, and considered an important part of the Crown’s defense plans for the Prio Sea region.  

 

Recently, a group of maroons have taken a small bay in the cliffs of the south end of the island. Supposedly they are supported by the Crown of Eslandola. The  full force of the Mardier Navy will be brought to bear upon these illegal squatters, if they do not immediately remove themselves from our island.

 

Below is the map of Mardier’s PRIME colony in the Sea of Prio region.  Graciously mapped  in the common tongue by the Cartographers Guild of Corrington.

Skaford heights by skaforhire, on Flickr

 

Settlement on this island is closed to all but authorized citizens. Foreigners must have a Mardier sponsor.

 

The great city of La Puebloto stands as a bastion of the King’s might in a troubling time. Gods Save the King! Gods bless Mardier!  Gods protect La Isla de Medio!

 

 

 

To the citizens of the Brick Seas.

 

If the maroons of Eslandola do not remove themselves from La Isla de Medio by  October 14^th, 616, the King of Mardier will issue a letter of mark to all willing participants. The letter states that the captain may attack Eslandola’s vessels of all nature in the name of Mardier.   This will be considered a  lawful prize to all courts in all nations, as Mardier and Eslandola shall then be at war.  Along with this letter of marque, the king offers a generous reward for every Eslandolan vessel taken or sunk  in the conflict. Captains may keep the vessel, with a clear title for 15% of the value of the treasure on board. Any war Eslandolan Warship taken or destroyed will also merit the victor 100 gold doubloons.  We encourage Eslandola to rethink their discretions and avoid this fruitless war.

 

Sincerely

Count Adwin Encarnacion

Minister of the Colonies of Mardier

[Elostirion]

Great to have you back and organising the reaction of Mardier!

 

However I have a lot to criticize about the way you are doing it this time (purely OOC criticism). When claiming the new islands, island 11 was unclaimed at the beginning. Corrington claimed their islands, what if they had claimed island 11? Why did noone know Mardier already owned it?

Also it does not make any sense that like 20 unknown islands were ready for the taking, but one of those had been a vivid trading port for three years already? Really? That does not make any sense in the slightest and surely would have been known at least from rumors. The rumors spoke of the natives, even of details like where they sail and where not, about all the elevations and jungles of the island - yet not at all of thousands of Mardierians living there, of many many trading ships sailing there? No sailor in any of the ports knew anything about a huge Mardierian trading region in the Prio seas? Absolutey unrealistic.

Also someone should really tell Count Adwin Encarnacion that Eslandola has already declared war on Mardier several months ago?

What annoys me about all that is that with this knowledge EVERYTHING would have been different. I don't think Eslandola would have chosen both islands 8 and 13 in direct vicinity to Mardier. I dont think we would have set up a settlement on island 11 like that, knowing how well it was already in Mardier's hands. We might have attacked nonetheless, but not with a settlement... I am not sure if I would have even MOCed there, let alone invested money into property licenses... Now a lot of real life effort has gone into this, and I feel personally betrayed. Again: Not IC, but OOC.

Also imagine Eslandola would have put all that effort into its other settlements or one of the other newly claimed colonies, that would have been an immense economical benefit for us. Which now we didn't have either.

 

Don't get me wrong. It's absolutely fine that Mardier is resisting. It's of course also fine that they don't have to create MOCs, that they can pay people to attack us, that they can even "cheat" - all that is absolutely cool for me, no trouble at all. But please properly and realistically. Had they started their settlements a month ago - fine for me. Like that - no!

I feel that your reaction is both unrealistc and unfair like that - and thus takes away fun of the game. For me. Not sure how the other members of operation KMA feel?

 

3 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

[...] The island is well travelled and documented [...]

No, it has not been. Not in the slightest, apparently....

 

EDIT: Addition: I don't want to say that you are abusing your power as gamemaster against Eslandola and for your own benefit. Because I absolutely do not think that's the case here.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Elostirion

[Maxim I]

I agree with Elostirion.

When the previous series of islands was shown to us, it was clear in the rumours that there were marks of activity by other nations on those islands (for example the island Corrington has choosen, you guys knew there was a Garvey settlement in advance).

Now whe have choosen 2 islands next to a powerfull Mardier hotspot.

It would have been made clear in the rumours that there was a lot of Mardier activity on island 11, we would never have choosen those islands (as we are in war with Mardier for some months already). At least Prio should have known there was another Mardier settlement nearby and warned us through the rumours...

[Capt Wolf]

I would like to echo everything the Elostirion said. Perhaps the most frustrating part of this is that the players of Eslandola have created some of the most interesting in-game events in the entire 9+ months of the game, inspiring collaborative building and spurring build reactions from other factions. We finally got the game doing what it's supposed to be doing, and it feels like we were just told to stop. I don't mean because of the in-game reaction by Mardier; that's to be expected and welcomed! No, it's the feeling that we shouldn't mess with any NPCs, because they get 3 moves to our 1. It feels like we should just leave the island and go back to building our little isolated settlements and not really interact. I was already questioning the value of building ships and participating in the MRCAs; if the NPC nations and pirates are just going to get 3 ships for every one of ours (that appears to be the established ratio), what's the point?

[Tezclatipoca]

22 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

I would like to echo everything the Elostirion said. Perhaps the most frustrating part of this is that the players of Eslandola have created some of the most interesting in-game events in the entire 9+ months of the game, inspiring collaborative building and spurring build reactions from other factions. We finally got the game doing what it's supposed to be doing, and it feels like we were just told to stop. I don't mean because of the in-game reaction by Mardier; that's to be expected and welcomed! No, it's the feeling that we shouldn't mess with any NPCs, because they get 3 moves to our 1. It feels like we should just leave the island and go back to building our little isolated settlements and not really interact. I was already questioning the value of building ships and participating in the MRCAs; if the NPC nations and pirates are just going to get 3 ships for every one of ours (that appears to be the established ratio), what's the point?

I am also echoing with my co players here.

We totally expected a Mardier answer. And even with some little "cheat" like a spawning of settlement (without S) and of some troops. Even the letter of mark and paying other players is totally fine.

BUT,

I think this answer is breaking the story coherence IMHO.

The island was previously unknown, no rumor of any Mardieran activity, and the Mardier claim appeared in the middle of our choice !

If there is something important I consider is story coherence from the Gamemasters.

As a ruler here, even if you are moving Mardier for yourself, you have to stick on the precedent lore you already published. For now, Mardier is a Old Empire on the decline, torn by many separatist conflicts (Terraversa, Prio) and it doesn't seem possible to such an empire to be a top notch explorer, colonialist and Native federation leader.

Seriously, you even mentioned that Mardier is integrating the Natives. I am nothing else that taking it personally against my fishermen build !

So, if it is like this, you are just telling us to stay away of the game and stick to our own business.

We, in Eslandola, at least the ones who participated in the KMA operation, put great investment in this action because we thought it would be fun to play. Your answer is just removing the fun IMO, I am very sorry to say that.

I hope it's just a miss understanding and it will be crystal clear soon !

[gedren_y]

While I agree that Ska has gone overboard in his gamemaster role, I think none of us realized that he may have been a bit insulted that we appropriated Skaford Heights. The Mardier occupation plan should have been made clear from the start, or at least rumors of Mardier in the area should have been included in the descriptions of 11 and the surrounding Islands.

[Kwatchi]

To play devils advocate, this was no different than the reaction I got when I suggested to KaiRNG in PMs back in the spring that I was thinking of putting a squatters town on Salide Este. I was told I would be unequivocally removed without any recourse by the ruling council as it was a Eslandola Island, and any properties would be lost.

So this should hardly be a shock to the Eslandolan leadership as the precedent was set by them.

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by Kwatchi

[Maxim I]

I see your point Kwatchi, but you knew when asked what he had there. 

If you decided to stay on that island, it would have been a fair war between us, without Eslandola suddenly receiving a royal fort and three grown settlements on that island

[Elostirion]

1 hour ago, Kwatchi said:

To play devils advocate, this was no different than the reaction I got when I suggested to KaiRNG in PMs back in the spring that I was thinking of putting a squatters town on Salide Este. I was told I would be unequivocally removed without any recourse by the ruling council as it was a Eslandola Island, and any properties would be lost.

So this should hardly be a shock to the Eslandolan leadership as the precedent was set by them.

The difference is simple: You knew we were on that island. You might as well have taken the risk, but knowingly. We didn't know sh*t.

And once again: That Mardier is trying to remove us from the island and not allowing us to settle there is 100% fine.

[CelesAurivern]

Well, ESL has declared war on Mardier, so mobilise troops and fight it out like men?

[Capt Wolf]

2 hours ago, CelesAurivern said:

Well, ESL has declared war on Mardier, so mobilise troops and fight it out like men?

If only we could, but there is no mechanic for fighting it out in-game, and the MRCA maps don't even allow us to go this part of the Brick Seas yet. Furthermore, when your opponent can build 3-year-old invisible fortresses at a moment's notice, the odds are kinda stacked against us. The irony is, we could each build dozens of settlements on the island and purchase thousands of troops, and there's nothing we could do. We're bound by the act of collective storytelling at this point and nothing more.

[Capt Wolf]

Hey, I think I found the Mardier royal fortress!

Edited October 9, 2016 by Capt Wolf

[SkaForHire]

From the very beginning Mardier has been painted as the super power, here.  Their naval forces were much larger than those of the other nations. Their trade routes were greater than those of the other nations. Their armies were greater than those of the other nations.   This is not a shocker.  The story even opens up that finally the other nations can sail past Terraversa due to some corruption on Terraversa, if they had been there for years and years (which they had been) then Why wouldn't they have other colonies beyond the line? The other nations have only been freely trading at Terraversa for under a year, it is not a leap to understand that there had been secret colonies beyond the line -- it has been mentioned in short pieces of plot in the beginning that the Mardians had trade routes that they controlled out of Terraversa.  As for the island descriptions, these were rudimentary observations made by a few explorers, it stands to reason that explorers that made it to close to the Mardier settlements were detained or killed, so that part of the island would not be known.  There is plenty of plot precedent for this, and in fact this island was part of the next challenge! (which your leaders knew about before this expedition)

 

As for a declaration of war, that was also never brought into the leadership forum. Where does that even happen? The first mention of this, I see in the last week.  And it stands to reason that Mardier would just not respond to petty threats until they felt that they needed to declare war back.

 

 

That all being said.

By the rules of the project, as a claimed island by a nation, then all foreigners can be kicked off without recourse.  The ultimatum was to subvert that, but we can just go back to the rules and disregard all those properties if you want.

 

Your leadership knew that that island was in use before you all made this attack. Complain to them.

[SkaForHire]

10 hours ago, Faladrin said:

I am also echoing with my co players here.

We totally expected a Mardier answer. And even with some little "cheat" like a spawning of settlement (without S) and of some troops. Even the letter of mark and paying other players is totally fine.

BUT,

I think this answer is breaking the story coherence IMHO.

The island was previously unknown, no rumor of any Mardieran activity, and the Mardier claim appeared in the middle of our choice !

If there is something important I consider is story coherence from the Gamemasters.

As a ruler here, even if you are moving Mardier for yourself, you have to stick on the precedent lore you already published. For now, Mardier is a Old Empire on the decline, torn by many separatist conflicts (Terraversa, Prio) and it doesn't seem possible to such an empire to be a top notch explorer, colonialist and Native federation leader.

Seriously, you even mentioned that Mardier is integrating the Natives. I am nothing else that taking it personally against my fishermen build !

So, if it is like this, you are just telling us to stay away of the game and stick to our own business.

We, in Eslandola, at least the ones who participated in the KMA operation, put great investment in this action because we thought it would be fun to play. Your answer is just removing the fun IMO, I am very sorry to say that.

I hope it's just a miss understanding and it will be crystal clear soon !

Mardier is not Spain of the 1800s, it is Spain of the 1530s, at the peak of its power, but civil unrest had led to a temporary break in the ability to stranglehold the new world. That is where the original opportunity in the story came in. That strength is being regained as the war ends, but that doesn't mean it did not have other colonies before the war began, colonies kept in secret so that the other powers would not be able to get a hold of their resources. (Much like Spain did, there were many colonies that the location was kept secret for many years, but eventually leaked to the greater world)  This story has been here the whole time. Just because there were not updates over the last three months doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

8 hours ago, gedren_y said:

While I agree that Ska has gone overboard in his gamemaster role, I think none of us realized that he may have been a bit insulted that we appropriated Skaford Heights. The Mardier occupation plan should have been made clear from the start, or at least rumors of Mardier in the area should have been included in the descriptions of 11 and the surrounding Islands.

While I disagree, and if we want to just delete all the content I have put in over the last year that is fine, I don't want people claiming that I am heavyhanded. I don't really need to be here, after-all. Historica is looking dry, and could use some plot rain, I will just go back there. But I will not see the game mechanics bastardized and bent on purpose.   You are right about one thing, when I chose which island would be the plot island, it was because DLL named it Skaford Heights. But this was before KMA was even planned, and thus why I edited that island list.

7 hours ago, Maxim I said:

I see your point Kwatchi, but you knew when asked what he had there. 

If you decided to stay on that island, it would have been a fair war between us, without Eslandola suddenly receiving a royal fort and three grown settlements on that island

But that is not true. You all had not made a pick yet when that island was claimed. And it was even said that the KMA thing came AFTER you saw that Mardier owned the island.  Bur furthermore, your leadership knew the island was claimed, which gives Mardier the same rights as any other nation in the game.

[Capt Wolf]

5 minutes ago, SkaForHire said:

By the rules of the project, as a claimed island by a nation, then all foreigners can be kicked off without recourse.  The ultimatum was to subvert that, but we can just go back to the rules and disregard all those properties if you want.

Your leadership knew that that island was in use before you all made this attack. Complain to them.

Explanation for the secret colonies appreciated. It would be nice if the running of the game was more communicative in a timely fashion, though. You could have said something as soon as you noticed the activity, but didn't.

I thought the rules allowed for squatter settlements. I'll leave the resolution of these events to leadership, and hopefully those results will be communicated to us in a timely fashion.

Sorry if we got too creative. Just trying to have fun playing a collaborative building game.

 

[SkaForHire]

Perhaps the fix is for Eslandola to migrate the colony to one of the uninhabited islands, or to one of their claimed islands.

 

I understand why the majority of you are upset, but this is not me throwing down an instant road block, there was already a plot here in the works, there was enough warning on the OOC side in leadership that this should not have even been considered.  It was never brought up in the main part of the forum, so I didn't see it was happening until yesterday.

4 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

Explanation for the secret colonies appreciated. It would be nice if the running of the game was more communicative in a timely fashion, though. You could have said something as soon as you noticed the activity, but didn't.

I thought the rules allowed for squatter settlements. I'll leave the resolution of these events to leadership, and hopefully those results will be communicated to us in a timely fashion.

Sorry if we got too creative. Just trying to have fun playing a collaborative building game.

 

Squatter settlements are allowed, but as the rules state, if it is on a claimed island, then they can be removed without any other mechanic by the host nation, at any time. The fort is the only problem actually. But We don't have the war rules yet to remove it.  What has not been explored in this game is really the squatter mechanic against unclaimed islands.  Had their not been two different nations on Berelli, then that island probably would have been bought by a nation because it had a settlement there.

 

 

This wasn't meant to stop your fun, it was a great idea.  It was just that this island was the worst island to do this on, and your leadership knew that, and the game mechanics that are available to all clearly say that squatters on a claimed island can be kicked.  It was a gamble from the beginning, without even knowing that this island was a major colony (which was about to play a prominent role in the next challenge...)

Finally, the last thing to say here,  if we had to build all of the NPCs then there would be no NPCs.  That just never would have worked. If you want no conflict in the game mechanic, it seems like it would be a pretty boring game.  There had to be some sort of threat.  (But actually, we are getting rid of that threat anyway with half of the MRCA, while adding adventuring instead of risky trade runs)

[Maxim I]

But...

we fought in Prio 4 months ago. Prio was a part of Mardier and very close to island 11. You can't say IC that a mayor island with 3 decent settlements and a royal fort is even kept secret to another settlement of the same nation which is only a few miles away...

As we are the allies of Prio against Mardier, the Duke of Prio would have atleast warned us for activity around island 11.

Island 13 was picked by MAESTRO since the islands came up (well, it was our second choice after island 3, which has been claimed by Oleon). We would never have picked that island if we knew there were mayor settlementS of Mardier a few miles away as MAESTRO openly declared war on Mardier a multiple times when the Prio war started.

It screws up a lot for Eslandola as you claimed that island after Oleon and Ayrlego picked 4 the first 4 islands... As we thought it was just Mardier claiming an island in the "pick an island convention", we guessed it was an undiscovered island. If you had picked that island before Ayrlego choosed the first island, we would have known that it was already decently settled by Mardier, resulting in Eslandola picking other islands...

@SkaForHire

you know I really appreciate the things you do for Bobs and it is really to bad that due some misunderstandings there is some unhappiness by certain people.

 

May I suggest that you switch your projects and ideas to another island and that we makes from this island another Berelli?

This way you can still develop your stories and challenges and we can work our stories on this island out. As said we choosed our island because we saw an opportunity here.

You can even create a whole new big island south of island 11 where Mardier is strongly represented.

Also note that the Sea Rats still haven't claimed an island. 

[Maxim I]

@SkaForHire

 

I see just now your answer to Capt Wolf.

but it doesn't change my reponse. We would not have choosen these islands if we knew Mardier was so presented on it. So please do understand our perspective that a lot of our work and stories are screwed now. If your plans on island 11 were clear since the beginning, that island would have been claimed by Mardier before Ayrlego choosed an island.

So in order to make it fair again, make island 11 disputed (make it an island where Mardier has just founded a settlement) and choose another island (or even create one) where Mardier is already presented for 3 years. This would give the fun back to Eslandola and the players who brought out the most fantastic groups project since the beginning of BoBS

[Tezclatipoca]

Is it a joke or is it totally messed up !?

With a non cohesive story, with a group of non communicating leaders, I am forced to STOP my Activity for BOBs, Sorry. I cannot continue on that.

You'll still have some builds from me, but just from time to time, just to tell my story, and I am giving all my income to MAESTRO Eslandola.

[Capt Wolf]

Faladrin, don't leave yet. We'll find a way to have fun with this game yet.

----

Ska, from the land rules: "The government of the other faction is also able to seize your property (except in the case of forts, in which case a military engagement will have to be fought." That would suggest we should fight a military engagement.

Now, that doesn't mean that's what I want to do at this point, because you'd just wipe us out with the forces from your pre-existing colony. I'm currently trying to figure out if there's a reasonable island we could move the whole KMA build to. But I bring it up to point out that the rules are not as cut and dried as you suggest.

Furthermore, may I ask what the purpose of this game is? Is it supposed to be a way to drive activity on the pirate forum, or is it simply a way to get others to build MOCs to illustrate a pre-conceived storyline of a few? A good game master recognizes good ideas and rewards them. I keep getting the feeling, even before this, that the challenges keep getting in the way of the players creating interesting storylines. I will bow to your interpretation of the rules, but I think it's reasonable to ask that more consideration be paid to how the players are trying to evolve the storyline in the future. There's room for all of us in here.

 

[Bregir]

Might I humbly suggest that before any more people leave (@Faladrin, please stay! Apples!) or turn eternal enemies, we take this up in leadership, taking into consideration the points brought up here?

I am not saying we should bury the issue, but right now the heat is turning up a little high, I think.

[Capt Wolf]

2 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Might I humbly suggest that before any more people leave (@Faladrin, please stay! Apples!) or turn eternal enemies, we take this up in leadership, taking into consideration the points brought up here?

I am not saying we should bury the issue, but right now the heat is turning up a little high, I think.

Bregir, I'm with you on this. I'm trying to find a solution to the immediate situation on the Eslandola PM right now. But note that I'd like to see a public discussion about these bigger issues by leadership. Conversations behind closed doors will just lead to more hurt feelings, IMO.

[Tezclatipoca]

4 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Might I humbly suggest that before any more people leave (@Faladrin, please stay! Apples!) or turn eternal enemies, we take this up in leadership, taking into consideration the points brought up here?

I am not saying we should bury the issue, but right now the heat is turning up a little high, I think.

Don't be worried Bregir. I am not turning in an enemy of anyone.

I am just saying that I am leaving the EGS; I will continue building some good Apples stories !

I found that the fun is gone. So, I leave the main rules to become more free to build whatever I want. I am not stopping my activity here, I am just frankly slowing down.

[Kolonialbeamter]

You guys have raised some good points. But it'll take a while to come to a conclusion here, so my only urge for now would be: Please don't leave! 

[Elostirion]

2 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

From the very beginning Mardier has been painted as the super power, here. 

Really? I did not notice that. The first to the new world? Yes! Superpower? No.

 

2 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

As for the island descriptions, these were rudimentary observations made by a few explorers, it stands to reason that explorers that made it to close to the Mardier settlements were detained or killed, so that part of the island would not be known.  There is plenty of plot precedent for this, and in fact this island was part of the next challenge! (which your leaders knew about before this expedition)

You contradict yourself. In the beginning of the topic you say "[...] the Bay of Good Hope has been considered a safe harbor for Mardieran traders for years now.  [...] The island is well travelled and documented, [...]" - so not a single sailor has talked in not a single tavern? Really? Does not make sense to me.

 

2 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

As for a declaration of war, that was also never brought into the leadership forum. Where does that even happen? The first mention of this, I see in the last week.  And it stands to reason that Mardier would just not respond to petty threats until they felt that they needed to declare war back.

So the secret leadership forum is where the game is actually played? Good to know. There were several posts in the forum, even build-offs if I remember correctly.

 

2 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

Just because there were not updates over the last three months doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

But don't you realise that exactly is the problem? You vanished for months (which is totally fine!), and others kept developing the storyline (isn't that supposed to be a community game?). Now you return and set your ideas above everything people have developed just for a plot you have had in mind months ago?

 

2 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

Perhaps the fix is for Eslandola to migrate the colony to one of the uninhabited islands, or to one of their claimed islands.

Thank you for the suggestion. While I think it's a bad idea it's probably still the best option there is...

Or our settlement might actually not be on island 11 itself but a small island before it, just noone had noticed?

Or the real big Mardierian island with huge settlements which noone has seen pictures of yet might just be somewhere else? And island 11 would just be the one that Mardier has freshly claimed, like it was written in the "new islands" thread, the knowledge that everyone was working with?

 

2 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

 but this is not me throwing down an instant road block, there was already a plot here in the works, [...] so I didn't see it was happening until yesterday.

Can't you just swallow your pride and adapt your plot to what has actually been MOCed? Isn't that game about LEGO, rather than about story?

Sorry for the harsh words, but that's exactly what it feels like.

 

2 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

Squatter settlements are allowed, but as the rules state, if it is on a claimed island, then they can be removed without any other mechanic by the host nation, at any time.

So where is that rule stating clearly that? I really cannot find it? The rules might need an update then.

 

2 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

Finally, the last thing to say here,  if we had to build all of the NPCs then there would be no NPCs.  That just never would have worked. If you want no conflict in the game mechanic, it seems like it would be a pretty boring game.  There had to be some sort of threat. 

Very true, and I don't think anyone has spoken against this?

 

Also Ska, I am sorry to say, but I think we all had one point only: WE HAD NO WAY TO KNOW! Except for our leadership telling us (at least that's what you claim) you did not talk about the real problem here.

 

You might realise that I am not happy with the situation at all. Sorry for harsh words and sarcasm, maybe it even reads like a personal attack at some points. Sorry if that is the case. I have no intention of insulting you or disrespecting all of the effort you have put into setting up BoBS. You did an absolutely amazing job here, no doubt. Just a horrific situation this whole thing has maneuvered into, I hope there will be a solution.

All said from my side, I won't continue reading this thread anymore. I will post another MOC on the island (which was already built before this thread showed up)., but then return to explored lands...

Before you finalize a solution please consider that this whole thing has already driven the first person to leave the EGS... and if some pre-set plot is really so important that it is ok to see great and motivated builders leaving...

Edited October 9, 2016 by Elostirion