Sony unveils the PS3!!

[Mister Phes]

Well its about these entertainment system twerps released new consoles...

[little-green-man]

Yeah, at least there are new consols

[eDeevo]

little-green-man, You must be young, because if you want ot talk about certain companies 'copying' others, you may need to mention ColecoVision & Atari, which were around long before Nintendo, Sony, and especially XBox... essentially, all consoles have been 'copies' of others... Also, you said that XBox created internet play, again have you ever heard of Dreamcast? A failed attempt at it yes, but it was done on that console long before XBox even existed... You keep your XBox & its lame game titles (basically all first-person shooters & racing games anyways ;) ). The games on XBox cannot even compare to the titles on Playstation or Nintendo (especially the fact that they will ALL be playable on their new consoles). To even suggest that they are equal is stupid...

Wolf04, I totally agree with many of the statements you have made here, and it is apparent that this person is "13-year old Microsoft fanboy that has no idea what those specs actually mean"...who happens to own a "box full of crap" ;)

The Ps3 looks to be AWESOME by the way... as well as the new Nintendo system (the backwards compatibility is a sure asle to me :-D ) I just hope to get them within the next three years (hey, I'm realistic ;) )

Life is Good.

[Akkhraziel]

My Take:

I'll probably get both a XBox 360 and a PS3, and adopt a wait and see on Revolution.

My preferences:

The XBox has been a better system for me than the PS2. Higher caliber games in genres I enjoy made it my favorite of the three currently available systems. Going forward, it looks like Microsft has learned from its mistakes. The Xbox 360 has solid 3rd part support (including Square Enix, finally). That and Microsoft did infact realize that having a head start on the market benefitted the PS2 greatly. It will be interesting to see if a Holiday release this year, backed up with games actually available at launch will boost the interest in the XBox 360.

As for the PS3, there are more than likely still some interesting games on the way for it. Sony no longer really having Square Enix solely on their system is going to make things interesting. Personally, I think that Sony has dropped the ball on a few too many isues as of late (SW Galaxies pissed off a large part of its player base. FFXI can't be played on the newer smaler PS2, and I'll have to send my 3rd (!!!!) PSP to Sony because of dead pixels...quality control....must learn quality control). All that said, there are still likely to be some great games available only on the PS3. It then becomes a matter of watching the system and the games and deciding when to get it.

Comeptition is a good thing for gamers. It means that the resultant products have to improve to remain competitive. I can only hope that Sony and Nintendo both rally and respond, and that Microsoft continues to seek innnovation. That will lead to bigger and better games, better hardware, and better prices.

Akkh

[Darth_Ewok]

After all that, i'm still saying that xbox360 is going to be MUCH better than PS3! Just my opinion, i'm looking forward to games like The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion, and Halo 3 (really looking forward to this one, Halo 2's single player was horrible)

"and in the real world (which apparently you're not in), hardware is much more important than a name."

Hardware is important, but whats the point of all that hardware if you don't use it well? (and it seems to me like the point your trying to make is that you would buy a console called "crap console" just because the hardware specs had big numbers) ;)

"My final point, you're just a 13-year old Microsoft fanboy that has no idea what those specs actually mean."

Wow, you must have sunk pretty low (or ran out of facts to throw at me) to try to insult someone just because of their age. that's just pathetic. ;) (and I actually understand quite a bit of it!)

"So what if Xbox came out first with Internet, Sony's been making consoles looong before BG woke up and randomly assembled a so-called console. Looks to me that it's Microsoft who copied the most"

hey, for microsofts first try at a console, its pretty good! ;)

"But still, sony "copied" the idea of a handheld gaming device from nintendo"

NO MORE COPYING CRAP!

"I so bet Microsoft wasn't planning to make it backward compatible and then they saw that Sony and Nintendo offered it, so..."oh crap, make a quick announcement that we will offer some kind (of crappy) backward feature"

The fact that it's backward compatible only with "top selling xbox games" is because they want to focus more on what they can do instead of what they did. they're always trying to improve. they don't want to waste time with some of the crappy old games. but they do want to keep the good ones.

[Mister Phes]

I'm not in the real world!

To heck with worrying about which console to get. All consoles can be emulated on PC's with the right knowledge and software, and in many cases 99.9% true to the original system.

[Wolf04]

Exactly, Microsoft doesn't want to worry about previous games because they're all crap.

[Darth_Ewok]

I'm just going to wait untill they come out. I'm probably going to get a chance to play PS3 sometime, we can't do much now since the consoles aren't out yet.

[Akkhraziel]

I also think its silly to blindly ally oneself with a console out of some misguided sense of company loyalty, saying that other products are 'crap' or 'overated' and what have you. Video games are all about preferences, what genres people like, and what gameplay experiences people seek. Until the market narrows down to one format (which in and of itself could be a very bad thing), it is virtually a definite that there will be worthwhile games unique to each system. But to blithely and blanketly say that a system has no good games nor will it ever is just sheer rampant fanboyism, and none more than a bit silly.

I'm looking forward to what the PS3 brings to the table when it launches.

Akkh

[Wolf04]

What, you think I'm being biased? I think you should really think hard before starting blabling useless nonsense. I've never owned a console. I've played PS2, Gamecube and Xbox. Gamecube is too childish, Xbox is ugly and most games are poor quality and PS2, well there was nothing special about it either, so as for the next-gen consoles, I compared the consoles and based on the figures, PS3 has the upper-hand, as PS2 had over Xbox.

I don't want to repeat myself again as it is pointless since some people cannot carry out a civiliazed conversation.

[Darth_Ewok]

I also think its silly to blindly ally oneself with a console out of some misguided sense of company loyalty, saying that other products are 'crap' or 'overated' and what have you. Video games are all about preferences, what genres people like, and what gameplay experiences people seek.

I'm not "blindly allied to a console because of a misguided sense of company loyalty" I just like the Xbox, and I never said that PS3 was crap, I just said that I thought Xbox 360 will be better. I just prefer the xbox

[Akkhraziel]

What, you think I'm being biased? I think you should really think hard before starting blabling useless nonsense. I've never owned a console. I've played PS2, Gamecube and Xbox. Gamecube is too childish, Xbox is ugly and most games are poor quality and PS2, well there was nothing special about it either, so as for the next-gen consoles, I compared the consoles and based on the figures, PS3 has the upper-hand, as PS2 had over Xbox.

I don't want to repeat myself again as it is pointless since some people cannot carry out a civiliazed conversation.

What, you think I'm being biased?

Well, given that your first post on this thread was the second one that mentioned Microsoft and given the fact that one of the first things you do in that thread is make disparaging comments, I'd say that might be a good indication of such.

Just in case you've forgotten:

And it has a 120 or 400 gig harddrive so you can record your favourite shows...in hdtv!!! Microsoft is owned!!! I don't even know why Microsoft bothers. They just woke up one morning and said, let's do a console when they didn't know what they're up against.

Given that up until that point most conversation had been fairly even keeled...yep, I'd say your biased.

I think you should really think hard before starting blabling useless nonsense. I've never owned a console.

Let's reference the latter first. You've never owned a console. So, in that case, your experience with the game libraries and offerings of the major systems, then, is limited by the fact you haven't really gone shopping for games for the systems nor probably spent extensive playtime with the different systems, but clearly feel capable enough to announce to the world that one system is better than the others and than one company is superior to the others. Hrm.

Gamecube is too childish, Xbox is ugly and most games are poor quality and PS2, well there was nothing special about it either, so as for the next-gen consoles, I compared the consoles and based on the figures, PS3 has the upper-hand, as PS2 had over Xbox.

This section of your last post has some good promise in actually articualting something of...use. But, the guidlines for your comparison are unclear. You compared the consoles and based on the figures (in your opinion) the PS3 has the upper hand. Are these hardware figures, impressions of games that have been announced, other mitigating factors ? Becasue you follow that up by stating that the PS2 had the upperhand over the XBox. Well, speaking from a matter of hardware, the Xbox had surperior power over the PS2, so if the figures you were mentioning in the first part of the sentence, the latter part of the sentence creates a paradox. (ie: You wouldn't want say that the PS3 is superior to the other systems on account of the hardware specifications in the same way that the PS2 was better than the XBox, as the PS2 didn't possess better hardware) As for the other figures, what are you examining when you make such a comparison.

At the root of all of this is that you make comments slamming other products that you seem to have either limited interaction with, and that you seem to be just parroting the comments made by peopl on misc forums and chats all over the internet. The Gamecube is too childish: What games gave you that impression. What is the breadth and scope of games you've tried on the Cube. While yes, many of the Nintendo franchises are designed with kids at heart, the Rogue Sqaudron series of games and several other games that landed on the console do not conform to this generalization. Did you get a chance to play any of them, or are you just asserting that the Gamecube games are too childish ? In regards to the Xbox, you say that the games are ugly. Given that titles that release on all three systems are generallygraphically superior on the Xbox (again, that hardware thing), this seems an odd comment to make. There are several flat out beautiful games on the Xbox (though the gamecube has some games that rival the graphics nicely). Games such as Ninja Gaiden, Jade Empire, KotoR and KotoR II all are graphically interesting and fun games to play.

As for the babbling useless nonsense...yep, if by pointing out that from a flawed perspective you offer your opinions as hard fact and more valid than other people's perceptions...then yep, I'm babbling nonsense. But at the very least, I am capable of articulating my arguements well and have the wherwithal and common courtesy to not shout over dissenting opinions, and the maturity to follow logic when its placed in front of me. Thus far, the general tone of your posts and the way you treat others is an indication that you are lacking in such things.

Akkh

[Akkhraziel]

I'm not "blindly allied to a console because of a misguided sense of company loyalty" I just like the Xbox, and I never said that PS3 was crap, I just said that I thought Xbox 360 will be better. I just prefer the xbox

Darth Ewok I wasn't referring to you when I posted that. The comment was directed at little green man, who hasn't exactly contributed positively to the conversation, and to Wolf04, who I addressed in the post above this one. Sorry about that.

Akkh

[Wolf04]

First of all, I don't need to own a console to be an expert at them. Almost all of my friends have a console and I've played all of them and that is all that is necessary to make an opinion. I'm not even a console fan, computers do it for me, so I really don't care which one is better but the reason I got into this is that Microsoft is a big joke and them making a console is an even bigger joke and I think that Sony makes decent consoles for those who are too poor to afford a computer. It may sound I am being biased against Microsoft but it's true, they make crappy software with security issues and the reason people use it is because they have no choice.

On the side note, I don't buy software, so going and buying games is not my thing.

I still don't understand how you come to your "magnificent" conclusion that I was being biased. I stated that Microsoft is owned because Microsoft has to experience in consoles. They've just been making programs full of bugs and errors while Sony has been making consoles for at least 10 years.

Oh, btw, on the sidenote, obviously I use Microsoft products (Office, Windows) but in no way I do support them by buying them.

Ok, since you spend countless hours analyzing and taking everything literal, MOST games for Gamecube are childish and there is one game - that I've played - that is mature, and that's Resident Evil 4.

I know for one game that graphics are trully horrible compared to the PS2 and that's NFS Underground. And it's not just that one game, it's more. Maybe, there are a few select that manage to have somewhat good graphics but it's very rare. One of the major problems with Xbox is resolution. If you have a fairly big TV (30'' +), it seems like you're just looking at moving squares, while PS2's resolution is low but not quite as bad as Xbox.

The thing is, PS2 was released much earlier than Xbox so obviously, Microsoft had a chance to implement new technologies to make it better but they didn't (it's Microsoft, what do you expect) but what makes you think PS2 does not have better hardware? Is it because it doesn't have a harddrive or is it because they didn't offer the same service as Xbox Live?

Now at E3, you might say, Sony sucks because they didn't offer game demos like Microsoft. Guess what, those demos, they weren't run on the X360, they were run on Apple Power Mac G5 systems and the console was there for decorative purposes.

And I still think making the console like a computer (by offering more services than gaming) is a bad idea as it is vulnarable to virus and I wouldn't want a console that has XP on it and when playing games, seeing Windows errors.

As for the curtesy, well guess what, I'm not some old man who is easily offended. I'm still a kid and while I'm not old enough to get a thesaurus and look for long, complicated words, I am old enough not to act childish and give reasoning for my choice.

But you know, I'm not going to eagerly awaiting for any console. Like I've said, I am a computer person and the only reason I got into this is that many people said that X360 will be better, I don't know how and I wanted to see how people react to the PS3.

Bottom line is, I don't care if Sony's trailers are pre-made renders but at least they had the guts to shut up and say that their console is not ready, while Microsoft kept on babbling saying that the X360 will be powerful, yet I don't see anything special and using computers to play the demos?

[Akkhraziel]

All right, where to begin:

I still don't understand how you come to your "magnificent" conclusion that I was being biased.

Which was preceeded by the earlier statement of:

It may sound I am being biased against Microsoft but it's true, they make crappy software with security issues and the reason people use it is because they have no choice.

And that, then is the thrust of that arguement. A bias is simply a predisposition to address to react to someone or something in a certain way. In this case, because you dislike the aspect of Microsoft that deals with computer applications and PC software, you also react negatively towards the video game division of the company. Your dislike stems less from problems with the Xbox itself, or the games on it, so much as the parent company, hence, a bias. Just a note, almost everyone is biased about things in some form or fashion, its just that in this particular case your bias against microsfot has made for mostly dissapointing video game conversation, just as the little green man's impugning of the PS3 for no other reason than it wasn't the XBox 360 didsn't make for scintillating conversation. You even state that you don't really like consoles, but apparently you like Sony more than Microsoft enough to state an opinion.

so I really don't care which one is better but the reason I got into this is that Microsoft is a big joke and them making a console is an even bigger joke

But the beginning of this conversation had very little to do with the Xbox 360. It was about how nifty the PS3 looked and what might be available on it. Between your first post and the person prior, you began talking about another company and another product. Which would generally indicate that you have some beef with Microsoft (which you do, but not so much with their Xbox or the games on that system) or that the PS3 was so underwhelming that the only thing to discuss was the comeptition...which I sincerely hope is not the case for Sony.

And as far as microsoft being a joke for making a console with no experience, the could easily have been said for Sony when the PS one debuted, as until that point Sony had been a consumer electronics company, but had very little experience with the video game market. Consumer Electronics, Computer software, about the same learning curve.

Moving elsewhere:

but what makes you think PS2 does not have better hardware? Is it because it doesn't have a harddrive or is it because they didn't offer the same service as Xbox Live?

Well, the technical components of the systems involved would be why I say the XBox has better hardware.

A quick run down:

The XBox

Graphics Processor Nvidia NV2A

Graphics Core Clock Speed 233MHz

Graphics Frame Buffer 64MB 200MHz DDR SDRAM UMA

Texture Cache 64MB 200MHz DDR SDRAM UMA

Texture Read Bandwidth 6.4GB/s

Fill Rate (pixels) 932 Mpixels/s

Fill Rate (texels) 1.86 Mtexels/s

Fill Rate (triangles) 125 Mtriangles/s

Pixel Depth 32-bit color, 32-bit Z-buffer

Processor Clock Speed 733MHz

Internal Data Precision 32-bit Integer, 64-bit Floating-Point

L2 Cache 128KB

L1 Cache Instruction 32KB, Data 32KB

External Bus 6.4GB/s

Processor 1 x Intel Pentium III 733MHz

Main Memory 64MB 200MHz DDR SDRAM UMA

Main Memory Bandwidth 6.4GB/s

And the PS2:

Graphics Processor Graphics Synthesizer

Graphics Core Clock Speed 150MHz

Graphics Frame Buffer 4MB Embedded DRAM

Video Memory 4MB VRAM

Fill Rate (pixels) 2.4 Gpixels/s

Fill Rate (texels) 1.2 Gtexels/s

Fill Rate (triangles) 75 Mtriangles/s

Pixel Depth 32-bit color, 32-bit Z-buffer

Processor Clock Speed 300MHz

L1 Cache Instruction 16KB, Data 8KB, 16K SPRAM

Processor 2 x Toshiba & Sony Emotion Engine 294.9MHz

Main Memory 32MB RDRAM

Main Memory Bandwidth 3.2GB/s

As the above would indicate, in a comparison between the XBox and the PS2, the Xbox has a better graphics processor, more Video Memory, a faster processor, and more main memory.

Hrm, what else:

Ok, since you spend countless hours analyzing and taking everything literal

*chuckles* Not so much, but generalizations make conversation aimless.

As for the curtesy, well guess what, I'm not some old man who is easily offended. I'm still a kid and while I'm not old enough to get a thesaurus and look for long, complicated words, I am old enough not to act childish and give reasoning for my choice.

*chuckles* I don't bother with a thesaurus. I've just had to do an incredible amount of writing in school and such things have repercussions when engaging in text based conversations. But as far as you still being a kid, that still doesn't mean you are incapable of conveying meaningful points with consistent thought. When your points are conveyed with nothing more than sarcasm, bias, and a noted lack of understanding of the subject matter, then your points become only so much noise.

If you don't care about the PS3, then why state an opinion about it all ?

Speaking of thoughts, and attempting to get back to the original topic, you brought up a good point:

And I still think making the console like a computer (by offering more services than gaming) is a bad idea as it is vulnarable to virus and I wouldn't want a console that has XP on it and when playing games, seeing Windows errors.

Given as both Sony and Nintendo also look to be offering things online, it will be interesting to see how long bad things start happening to the consoles that are online so much.

And parting thoughts...I'm still curious as to what the touted 'Cell' chip is going to be like. Its been rumoured to have been in development for quite awhile. I know during the most recent Sony shuffling of Execs it was discussed quite a bit. It will be interesting to see what its capable of.

Akkh

[eDeevo]

It is also important to note that all of the processing power contained within a system (memory, processor, etc.) is useless if software companies (the guys that make the games) do not use them to their fullest. This I have seen on both the XBox & Ps2...

Also, after watching much of E3 the past week, I was really impressed by Sony (mainly for their future titles game-wise) & Nintendo (for the reverse compatibility & downloadable games from NES, SNES, & N64 :-D )... it did just seem like Microsoft was attempting to sell me on their system so much, it came off pretty pathetic |-/ ... until they come up with better games (not more first-person shooters or racing games), I will probably never get the 360... although even if I get any of the new systems, it will be a while after they are released, so they can work the 'bugs' out before I do ;) ...

Also, just for the record, I own a GameCube, Ps2, & an XBox...

Life is Good.

[Akkhraziel]

It is also important to note that all of the processing power contained within a system (memory, processor, etc.) is useless if software companies (the guys that make the games) do not use them to their fullest. This I have seen on both the XBox & Ps2...

Yep. A hard drive that no developer uses is just a really big memory card, and it made the XBox more expensive for something that was realtively not used at all.

Honestly, all three are looking pretty good. I know Sony is going to have a few nice surprises lined up. Microsoft looks like its learning from its previous mistakes and the idea of downloading vinatge Nintendo Games on the Revolution sounds very appealing. The only thing real concern I have is that games are increasing in price, according to ye olde rumour mill.

Akkh

[The Middleman]

This argument stops now. If it continues, I'll lock the topic.

Anyway, competition between the PS2 and the XBox isn't really fair - the XBox came over two years after the PS2. If the PS3 and 360 are being released around the same time, I'd put my money on the PS3, since it's had so much more time to improve. The stats being thrown around support that.

[Mister Phes]

Bloody Jay lays down the law once again!

Where's the arguement anyway? What I read was a heated debate which is quite interesting. Why should the posts all be positive towards the PS3? Its not like its going to be a perfect and completely wonderful gaming system. Those who have objections to it should be allowed to express them, afterall they may well be 100% correct and we won't know until the PS3 is released and been on the market for a while and competing with the other systems and never use "and" repeatedly in a sentence.

[eDeevo]

This argument stops now.  If it continues, I'll lock the topic.

Anyway, competition between the PS2 and the XBox isn't really fair - the XBox came over two years after the PS2.  If the PS3 and 360 are being released around the same time, I'd put my money on the PS3, since it's had so much more time to improve.  The stats being thrown around support that.

*tries his best tough-guy impersionation*

You talking to me?

Seriously though, I didn't think I was being argumentative at all (unless you were not talking to me, then disregard ;) )... I just see the Microsoft people in a kind of 'panic-mode' because they are pushing the release of the 360 so quickly without any 'new' games available for it (also the fact that they have not stated clearly that ALL previous XBox games will be reverse compatible scares me a LOT :/ ) I hope good things for them, but it seems like Microsoft is just trying to beat the PS3s release date, & it seems like a desperation move to me... that is all...

Life is Good.

[The Middleman]

No no no, you both misunderstand me... I was talking about Wolf vs. Akkhraziel. It was getting kind of personal. And I don't doubt the 360 is going to be great - I just think the PS3 will be better.

[eDeevo]

No no no, you both misunderstand me... I was talking about Wolf vs. Akkhraziel. It was getting kind of personal. And I don't doubt the 360 is going to be great - I just think the PS3 will be better.

Okay... & for the record, I agree about your thoughts on the 360 & PS3 :-D

Life is Good.

[Akkhraziel]

This argument stops now. If it continues, I'll lock the topic.

Anyway, competition between the PS2 and the XBox isn't really fair - the XBox came over two years after the PS2. If the PS3 and 360 are being released around the same time, I'd put my money on the PS3, since it's had so much more time to improve. The stats being thrown around support that.

No problem. :-D

Though a bit of clairification, the PS2 and XBox comparison was not meant as an indicator of what the future systems will bring, but instead refers back to the conversation on logic.

In the end, given that all systems will be out within a year of each other, I think whats really going to make the difference is the games. And it will remain to be seen as to what 'must haev' titles are released on what systems.

Akkh

[Mister Phes]

For a minute I thought we were going to get a Jerry Springer like thread...

Anyways, why will the PS3 be better than the 360?

[The Middleman]

For a minute I thought we were going to get a Jerry Springer like thread...

Anyways, why will the PS3 be better than the 360?

A few reasons. For one, the PS2 was ahead of its time when it was released two years before the XBox. Surely, five and a half years later, it's improved exponentially. The XBox, on the other hand, has had three and a half years to develop. I don't doubt the quality of either system - it's simply an issue of time available.

Second, the XBox is basically a computer that's had barriers put on it so it can only do a few things, namely gaming. While this is in theory a good idea, the computer industry itself hasn't really evolved exponentially. I don't expect the XBox to have better graphics than the modern computer. The PS3, on the other hand, is evolving on its own. It's an estimate of two times as powerful as the XBox 360, and the graphics are so realistic that for a while there was a protest of people saying that they couldn't be real-time (real gaming), but rather had to be a staged graphics video. Sony confirmed that it WAS real-time. That's pretty damn impressive.

So, my money's on the PS3.