Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

[Mesabi]

More Wip shots.

WTC judgement Wip by North White, on Flickr

WTC judgement Wip by North White, on FlickrWTC judgement Wip by North White, on Flickr

WTC judgement Wip by North White, on Flickr

[Bart]

@Bregir vey nice curvature on that gunboat, nice to use the bricks to their limit like that. for me the colourscheme is excellent too.

 

[SpaceJoey86]

Right, been designing this on LDD, what do you guys think?

ship 3

 

[Bregir]

@Mesabi:

Did you see my comment about the curvature?

Also, I think she is growing very tall. Decks of ships aren't that tall. For the middle deck, I would suggest removing the 3 to 4 top bricks in height. That would also make your tumblehome consistent.

@SpaceJoey86:

A very good start. While it is hard to see from this angle, it looks like the foremast is too far backwards by at least 6-8 studs.

@Bart: Thanks!

@kurigan:

I started out with a solution like you suggest, but it is very hard to get enough clutch-power to make the bend hold, and it didn't look good either. Also, the fact that the sand green slopes are two plates thick make them rather hard to bend.

As to the natural tolerance, I have found that there is not much more to work with, one or more fulcrums.

The gun is currently just mounted on a jumper plate - it is just a place holder for now - I somewhat want to include a recoil mechanism, but for training the gun sideways, I believe the normal procedure would be to turn the whole gunboat.

[kurigan]

I'm done.

I quit.

I'm out.

[Bregir]

[Spud The Viking]

Rather unexpected...

Meanwhile, my vessel will probably be ready mid-December due to exams 

[Darnok]

2 hours ago, kurigan said:

I'm done.

I quit.

I'm out.

 

?

[Mesabi]

Well, the Judgement is about 90% finished! I just have to do custom sails, and find those missing doors. 

WTC Judgement by North White, on Flickr

WTC Judgement by North White, on Flickr

WTC Judgement by North White, on Flickr

WTC Judgement by North White, on Flickr

WTC Judgement by North White, on Flickr

So, @Bregir, I did the curvature thing, by sinking the middle of the ship a block. Maybe that's not exactly what you were thinking of, but whatever. Also, I decided to keep the middle deck high, since I liked how it looked.

I think she's a class 8. @Maxim I disagreed, but I'm going to defer to @Bregir, or anyone else on the court. 

I'll try to upload some better photos as I add the finishing touches. 

@kurigan you okay mate?

 

[Darnok]

@Mesabi: Nice little boat you have got there.

 

The openings on the lowest gundeck look "unfinished" to me because of those hollow studs. Adding some 2x2 plates or tiles in either white or red would improve the look a lot in my opinion. As for its classification: I would say it is either a class 5 or class 6 - going by the standards set here. The higher classes are defined by ships that are a good bit more massive than the "Judgement".

Edited November 10, 2017 by Drunknok

[Spud The Viking]

Looking good @Mesabi!

I have a little progress on my own ship I'd like to show you guys:

What do you guys think? The bricks represent the masts on the deck. I'm thinking a cruiser or maybe a brig

Edited November 10, 2017 by Spud The Viking

[Bregir]

My general impression is that it is similar in size to Maxim's SOTL's so I think it might be a class 7, as Maxim said. But no ruling can ever be made on anything but a finished vessel.

As to the curvature, do what you prefer yourself. I simply suggest how you can achieve a more elegant and realistic shape. (Take a look at bodi's recent silent Mary for some nice curves)

In reality, the tall sides of your moc would probably give her some rather unhandy characteristics in the wind ;)

I do understand that you are not going for realism, and that is perfectly fine, but it would be nice to at least have one's comments acknowledged ;)

[Spud The Viking]

I have a couple of questions - how/where are small arms stored? Do the crew sometimes arm themselves or is that purely fiction?

[Bart]

@spud

I would  change the fore mast and capestan around 

Small arms where stored in racks/boxes/ arms rooms on big vessels. It is my understanding that the ship provided the arms to the crew (sailors -> cutlasses and pikes (knifes would be personal) Officers probably came with their own sabre and pistol. For marines rifles would be issued by their garrison. 

[Spud The Viking]

2 hours ago, Bart said:

@spud

I would  change the fore mast and capestan around 

Small arms where stored in racks/boxes/ arms rooms on big vessels. It is my understanding that the ship provided the arms to the crew (sailors -> cutlasses and pikes (knifes would be personal) Officers probably came with their own sabre and pistol. For marines rifles would be issued by their garrison. 

Switching the foremast and capstan may be tricky for rigging. Also, where do the anchor chains go, could you possibly provide a reference picture? 

Edit - another WIP shot with the current configuration, excuse the mess. I'll share it properly once I'm on my laptop

Edited November 11, 2017 by Spud The Viking

[Bart]

During the 'Age of Sail' ships (we commonly use as a base of reference for our Lego models) didn't have an anchor chain, they had an anchor rope. (Maybe some knowledgeable EB member knows when the change occurred?)

The anchor rope it self didn't go round the capstan to lift the anchor, it is too thick. 

The capstan has a so called messenger rope, and endless loop, going around rollers in the manger (place to clean the dirt of the hauled in anchor rope and let the water drain away, not to store livestock)  the anchor rope was secured to this messenger rope by a small pieces of line. 

On even bigger ships  (three masted) the capstan dedicated to lifting the anchor was even behind the main mast (where it also worked on the big yards) so the messenger rope ran all the way trough the ship (around the masts) giving it a long length and lots of pieces of line to transfer the weight from the anchor and rope to the messenger rope to the capstan. 

Dedicated crew members (maybe the powder boys?) where in charge of connecting, and loosening the small pieces before the reached the capstan, the anchor rope was stored in the hold midships on racks so it could dry. 

Seen in the picture, the hawse holes, with one anchor rope (thick) coming in, the manger(boards) the rollers and the messenger rope.

 

http://i.imgur.com/csa1vgp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/at1HDUL.jpg?1
https://imgur.com/jPdPYOx
Here some links to some ship deck plans, where you can see the location. (you can find more on google, searching for something like 'Frigate deck plan"/"age of sail ship deck plan"/ "ship of the line" etc etc)

Hope that helps, enjoy your build.

Bart

[Bregir]

@spud: Looking good. I generally agree with Bart's excellent advice and the informative part about winding anchors is spot on.

As to small arms, they would normally be under lock and key (apart from officers' and marines weapons), to avoid the the crew in a fit of mutinous rage trying to take over the ship. Before action with a risk of hand to hand fighting arms would be dealt out to the crew. At least that is my understanding of the Royal Navy during napoleonic Era.

[Spud The Viking]

Thanks guys for the feedback, especially @Bart! I like having a few functions in my build thus why I wanted a working capstan. I'll happily trade function for historical accuracy though.

[Bart]

You can still have an working capstan, just need a longer rope/chain.

*on the chain part, I just learned that the Brittons during the Roman times already had iron chain because they couldn;t make rope strong enough back then. After the fall of the Roman Empire a lot of knowledge was lost, and the Vikings returned to using stones on rope. 

The first 'modern' use of chain was in 1809 by lt. Samual Brown (Royal Navy) onboard the Penelope. Because of increase in ship size hemp rope not being strong enough, and the hemp rotted to fast in the East and West Indies, making the crew sick. By 1830 chains where common on the world fleet. 

So a chain is accurate too :) 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Bart

[Garmadon]

Very nice work so far, Spud - the curve of the side is really well done, and I think my only piece of advice at the moment would be to make the side galleries of the cabin stick out/curve more than at the moment as it looks a bit flat back there.  Not sure exactly what the best way to do that would be, though! 

I've been asked a few times for a cannon tutorial of the design I usually use (not sure exactly how original it is, though - if I recall correctly, it's basically a mix of a few other designs I'd seen before), so I figured this would be as good a place for it as any other (also posted it in the Artillery index too)!

Check out the whole process in the spoiler (probably way more detailed than it has to be )!

Spoiler

Parts:

Step 1:

Step 2:

Step 3 (note that I generally prefer to not push the ball thingy on the end all the way in):

Step 4, finalized (the top part is a bit of a tight fit into the carriage, bit that does allow it to stay at whatever angle you place it): 

I've also used it occasionally without the second 1x1 round brick to make for a shorter barrel:

And here's an example of the design in a build:

There's lots of good cannon designs out there, but I hope this might help out for those who are looking for a handy design! 

[Spud The Viking]

Thanks @Garmadon! I'll try to incorporate your feedback - somehow!

I like how complicated that cannon looks without using too many parts, great design!

[Spud The Viking]

After much consideration I might convert my cruiser to a sixth rate due to the inclusion of a cabin. Another mast will be added and another deck placed atop the current one. Would there be any major downsides in this eg. is it too small/short?

[Bregir]

9 hours ago, Spud The Viking said:

After much consideration I might convert my cruiser to a sixth rate due to the inclusion of a cabin. Another mast will be added and another deck placed atop the current one. Would there be any major downsides in this eg. is it too small/short?

Hmm, my immediate thinking is that it will be more harmonic as a brig, but it is a bit hard to fathom currently, so I might well be wrong! :)

If you are to add another deck, I wouldn't add a full deck, but just a quarter deck and a forecastle, with some gangways between them. (Leaving the waist/middle open) The quarterdeck would typically go from the stern to the mizzen mast (or main for a brig, although quarterdecked brigs were rare). I would make sure to keep the gundeck low (no higher than on the last pictures), and the same for the sides for quarterdeck and forecastle, to avoid the vessel turning out too tall.

Could you perhaps take two pictures from the side? One where you have placed two tall mast-placeholders, and another where you have placed three. That would make it easier to see what would be the most fitting. Currently, I think she might be too short for a three-master.

[Spud The Viking]

@Bregir thanks, I had planned on not having a full deck. I'll take some pictures of the masts asap!

 

With three masts:

With two masts:

Edited November 17, 2017 by Spud The Viking

[Spud The Viking]

Sorry @Bregir, the photos were combined with the last post so you would not have been notified.