Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

[Roadmonkeytj]

5 hours ago, Legostone said:

Well, there isn't much to this technique - its just tiles snotted to the side of the hull. If you need more pics tell me ;)

Also another note that I wasn't the first one to do this; see Captain Green Hairs example:

Oh, short rigging strength test

 

Thats quite the "swooshable" ship there ... Am I seeing correctly that only the spanker moves not the upper yard for the spanker? Sorry dont know its name

 

 

The break down was perfect ... The gaps are they there to allow 1x2 stud spacing with the tiles or just that you dont need a full side of them?

[Legostone]

Just now, Roadmonkeytj said:

The break down was perfect ... The gaps are they there to allow 1x2 stud spacing with the tiles or just that you dont need a full side of them?

The lowest tiles are offset by half a stud, so I needed some gaps for the areas where the ends of the tiles meet. 

 

Just now, Roadmonkeytj said:

Thats quite the "swooshable" ship there ... Am I seeing correctly that only the spanker moves not the upper yard for the spanker? Sorry dont know its name

Well, both move, but the top yard is tied to the mast unlike the bottom one, so there is quite some friction there - it takes some extra force to move it around. But yeah, the rigging is very stable, just how it should be :D

[Bodi]

@Legostone Yeah, this ship turns out quite well, lots of interesting, I'll see if I can build something similar. 

[Bart]

4 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

Thats quite the "swooshable" ship there ... Am I seeing correctly that only the spanker moves not the upper yard for the spanker? Sorry dont know its name

The aftmost sail on @Legostone's ship would be called the mainsail in this case because it's the biggest. the lowest boom is just called the boom. the upper one is called a gaff.
the sail inbetween the masts 

And now it gets weird because Legostone calles his ship a Brig but it is rigged as something we now call a topsail schooner. welcome to the wonderfull world of shipping, where ship names and labels differ over time period and sometimes the ship is labeled by hull shape and purpose and other times by rig design. 

Anyway I don't know how that sail is called on a brig. but on a schooner that would be the schoonersail with the schoonerboom and schoonergaff connected to the (smaller) foremast. 

To make it a brig one would loose the fore and aft sail on the foremast, and add more yards and add yards on the mainmast, and then the name of the aft fore and aft sail would indeed e a spanker. 

INot to make things complicated  I'll leave out the schoonerbrig. and just indicate you here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sail_plan

-------------

On another note, I've continued with my ship. and to keep personal morale up, here is a view:

She looks very bow heavy now, but that is due to fact I angled her that way, and I did most work there. As I work my way to the aft I hope the visual point of gravity shifts more.
I'm not happy yet with the companionway or the hatch covers, I'd might change the hatchcover to a grating design. 

Bart

 

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

20 minutes ago, Bart said:

Lots of sailing lingo... 

Not to make things complicated  ...

Bart

(paraphrased)

Maybe thats why Ive had so much trouble learning the names lmao ... I come from cattle and horses ... Life has not afforded me any involvement in sailing other than smaller motorised vessels with no rigging less it be fishing poles lol

As far as your ship ... Im liking the way your making it "keel over" or is it "heal" .... Be affected by the wind thus raising the hull on the blown side.   Lol ... I rather like the curved top on the hatch behind the mast.  Is the tiles behind it the crew hatch to lower decks?

Edit: I really like the windlass ... At the bow ... Any chance to get a close up?

Edited February 28, 2018 by Roadmonkeytj

[Bregir]

Bart, I think you are mixing up Legostone's brig with the CGH example he is showing, which is indeed a schooner. ;)

[Bart]

1 hour ago, Bregir said:

Bart, I think you are mixing up Legostone's brig with the CGH example he is showing, which is indeed a schooner. ;)

you just made mentally step on a brick 
You are right I mixed them up, my apologies, and thanks for point it out. 
Legostone's ship is indeed a brig. (making the last sail a spanker) 

@Roadmonkeytj Yes I can make a close up, I'll do it this afternoon.
Yes the tiles behind the carohold are the crew hatch, (companion way) I'm not happy about that yet. But I'm not willing to remove the strongbeam for the connection of the mainsail sheet. So I gave myself little space. 

Bart

[Bodi]

@Bart Looks very promising so far, I'm liking the bow and the masts. The green roof amidship, is it a cargo hatch? I've seen that on many shipmodels, it looks like some sort of hut.

[Bart]

Yes, that is the cargo hatch.
I think everybody knows the gratings (a lot of times build by showing the back side of headlight bricks). But on deck, especially a deck that has a change of getting (a lot) of water on it. Those hatches where raised, (that raised part is called the coaming) And the grating or wooden panels would be covered with a tarpaulin. And that tarpaulin I intended to show here with the green curved bricks. 
But I might lower the coaming a plate, now it's 3 plates high and then the green. Giving it indeed the impression of a sort of deck housing.

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

@BartWould combining the companionway with the cargo hatch and having it open more like a sailboat be out of line? That would still give enough space for the strongbeam ... I do hope you keep that since its not a feature that many include.

[Bart]

The strongbeam is staying. (I'm not even sure if that is the correct name though, but it's a name that is used on a ship, maybe not in that time or for that purpose. But it fits) One could make the argument that ships where you don't see that, the reinforcements to take the pull of the main sheet* are below the deck.

*Sheet is the line (rope) where one controles the sail with.

You mean like having the whole hold open? 
I portrayed her with her bow down in the sea, deck edge below water. Would you like to sail then with the cargo hold open to take in all that water? :D 

But also as promised, a close up of the windlass:
It's supposed to resemble some of the earlier windlass designs, where there where spokes inserted and pulled to rotate.

It's build out of two headlight bricks 5 studs apart, a 6 stud long rod, (flange hidden inside the headlight brick) 3 technic axle pieces, and 2 "stickwith holders"  as LDD calls them. representing the spokes mentioned above. 

Oh and I lowered the hatch one plate, so it's less of a hut ;D

Bart

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

@Bart thanks for the additional pictures 

No what I was proposing is where the companionway would have three doors one on top that hinges over or slides back then the split vertical door similar to modern sailboats ... Ive seen it used on model wooden boats ... Couldnt find a good pic but this should give you a better idea what im picturing

https://goo.gl/images/e8nXhD

[Bart]

@Roadmonkeytj You mean like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Dunbrody_companion_way.jpg That is an option too, but I feel like that is more fitting for a larger ship. 
When calculated to 1:40 scale the ship I'm building is only 13 meters long (over deck). 
I've done the bulwarks to the aft, and started with the sails: first of five. The staysail, it's very study and bricky, might change that to tiles and bricks with angles, might not. first the other sails.

Check this link for a port side view https://flic.kr/p/F9g226 (no sail yet, but I just like it) oh and the hull on the port side has been done too.

Bart

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

1 hour ago, Bart said:

@Roadmonkeytj You mean like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Dunbrody_companion_way.jpg That is an option too, but I feel like that is more fitting for a larger ship. 

Bart

 

Yes actually almost identical to what i was thinking ... Attaching that to the back of the cargo hatch so slightly raised from the tarplin

[Bart]

I've got a solution for the companionway, that I like. 
Also I'm working on the sails 4 out of 5 done, currently waiting for a render to finish to judge the colours and looks. 
Next is mini-figure placement, and water. (Different water then my water question in this thread before)

But next pictures I'll post in a separate thread, of the finished build, there should be something left to be seen :D somewhere next week, depending on how it goes. (renders will take most time :O) blue render has a hard time with all the weird angles in this build I think.

I've a question though, is this a class 2 or 3 ?
Principle dimensions: LOA 58 studs, BOA 14 studs, hull length 41 studs, waterline 35 studs, mast height above deck 42 studs. 
When on 1:40 scale that would be LOA 18,6m / 61ft, BOA 4,5m / 14 ft, mast 13,4m / 44 ft. 

Bart

[Legostone]

6 minutes ago, Bart said:

I've a question though, is this a class 2 or 3 ?
Principle dimensions: LOA 58 studs, BOA 14 studs, hull length 41 studs, waterline 35 studs, mast height above deck 42 studs. 
When on 1:40 scale that would be LOA 18,6m / 61ft, BOA 4,5m / 14 ft, mast 13,4m / 44 ft. 

Looking forward to the final result!

If we look at the prefab "guidelines" this would probably be a class 3 (roughly equivalent to a small hull with 2 midsection, light construction), and looking at it right now that should fit quite well. Its much larger then it appears at first though...

What is up with the spar under the jib btw? I've never seen that on a real vessel... As well as that, have you considered using a Flextube (outer cable in LDD) or technic axle for the topmast so it doesn't look as "clipped on" as it does right now?

[Bart]

It's a stay-sail on a boom, it's not an uncommon feature on old ships, although virtually non existing on the bigger ships (frigates and such) most of us look at as examples. 
it safes on the sheet angle and length, you can just sheet it down, as a mainsail sheet instead of diagonal aft. It eases in tacking, and the foot (lower edge) of the sail stays at the correct tension. yes that matters ;)

I haven't seen it on EB yet, I thought it was a fun thing to add. Although I must admit I haven't seen all ships here, and some archive gremlin will probably find one if they tried.

About size, the odd angles I'm showing it do play tricks here I think. And it narrows towards the stern (it looses 4 studs in width), the widest point is actually before the mast. and the sides are only over 4 studs in length actually parallel. 

I'll try the flex-tube! I'm always forgetting about that one when trying to find rods of the size I want :D
LDD shows then in mm length instead of stud length so that is a bit of a trial and error finding the correct size

*waiting for the render to finish while you have idea's to enhance is..., well annoying. But I'm not complaining.

Bart

Edited March 3, 2018 by Bart

[SpaceJoey86]

Alright, I carried on with my ship, and here it is now:

DSCN8409

DSCN8402

DSCN8403

It isn't very accurate (mast placement, lack of rudder) but it is my third ship MOC.

It also has removable deck sections and a captains cabin and cannons down below.

I think it will be a class 4, but feel free to correct me. This will likely get changed - and corrected a lot so keep watching?

[Bart]

Not a bad start, but I would suggest looking into spar placements. oh and the yards can be wider, 1,5 times ship's width is a good starting point (adjust from there to what the eye likes) 

But if you add a third mast, just some shorter then the fore mast, the placement of the other two is good. 

[SpaceJoey86]

38 minutes ago, Bart said:

Not a bad start, but I would suggest looking into spar placements. oh and the yards can be wider, 1,5 times ship's width is a good starting point (adjust from there to what the eye likes) 

But if you add a third mast, just some shorter then the fore mast, the placement of the other two is good. 

Thanks for being honest. I like the look of it with wider yards, but I don't have the parts to put another mast in. If I move the main mast where should it go? (I have no plans as I am not copying a specific ship).

[Captain Genaro]

3 hours ago, SpaceJoey86 said:

Alright, I carried on with my ship, and here it is now:

I suggest moving the mainmast between the 3rd and 4th gunports (probably further back than forward). You will likely need to move the rear grating if you do this. 

You also might consider removing some of the inverted slopes that make your boat wider as it gets taller. Due the tumblehome, the ship should get narrower the taller it gets. 

Most ships also had a curve so that the bow and stern were slightly higher while the middle appeared to sag. The green line in this picture helps to illustrate this point. 

Finally, I think some windows along the side of the cabin would be a nice touch. 

[SpaceJoey86]

20 hours ago, Captain Genaro said:

I suggest moving the mainmast between the 3rd and 4th gunports (probably further back than forward). You will likely need to move the rear grating if you do this. 

You also might consider removing some of the inverted slopes that make your boat wider as it gets taller. Due the tumblehome, the ship should get narrower the taller it gets. 

Most ships also had a curve so that the bow and stern were slightly higher while the middle appeared to sag. The green line in this picture helps to illustrate this point. 

Finally, I think some windows along the side of the cabin would be a nice touch. 

- Yes, I will move the mast soon

- I will consider later, as this would be hard to change so late

- the decks come off, so this was something i decided not to do this time

- windows would be nice, that is something I can do in a moment

 

[Elostirion]

On 7.2.2018 at 12:17 AM, Legostone said:

Though I would still like to see a Galleon, Frigate or Indiaman (just some large ship) from your hands...

Your challenge has been accepted. :-) 

I decided to go for the Indiaman (we might want to call it Terraman over her? Or Fontonajoman?)

 

However I will need some assistance, as I am still brutally new to shipbuilding - and horrible at it. I chose the Indiaman. The large ones I Wikipedia'ed (is this even a thing?) were usually 60m long (50m keel length), 10-12m wide and had roundabout 20-30 cannons. My current version has 22 cannons and is roundabout 30m long (the hull) (with a minifig at 1.80 metres height), and 7-8 metres wide. I consider making it 2 studs wider (or maybe even 4 studs), as currently it seems a bit slim, and one section (8 studs?) longer as it's still a bit too small...

Also I am not sure whether it should be higher (as the railing should be 3-8 plates higher from the water surface to give more room for cargo)?

Regarding the sails I guess I will have to find some yellow sails, the dark red ones from the QAR would be too much dark for an Eslandolan ship.

If there is anything else that is just bad / wrong etc. please let me know.

 

Some more pictures from slightly different angles:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Elostirion

[Bart]

Scaling based on minifig height being 1.80 usually messes things up (imho) because minifigs don't have the same proportions as a human (to wide for height etc)

I usually use http://studs.sariel.pl/ for scaling, minifig scale is considered to be 1:38 to 1:40 (mostly 1:40) 

You could try widening it in the center area to get a more ship-shape. And if you want to challenge your newly found ship building skills  sheer and tumblehome make it look less straight and slim. 
Sheer is a length wise curve where the bow and stern rise from the center. (increases seaworthyness)
tumblehome is the decks getting narrower towards the top, the sides angle inwards. (better at bouncing back cannonballs)

Bart

[Legostone]

@Elostirion I'm glad you are giving it a try! 

First off - great to see some dark brown, its too rare of a colour for ships around here. For the ship - I think a simple bulky hull isn't your usual style - have you considered Captain Green Hairs Technique, perhaps enhanced with a different widening technique (as there is a lack of dark brown jumpers) also by him (for example shown here, I've shown some details how its done somewhere in this thread, a bare 6 midsection prefab with that widening technique is here)?

As for the design itself - perhaps one of these might be interesting? (that whole forum has lots of plans if you are looking for more). It always helps looking at models of the style of vessel you are building; here are a couple examples (one, two, three, four, five, six, lots more in the forum I linked above). For figuring out a colour scheme - either some picture editing program with plans or real bricks