Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

[Bregir]

Just now, Mesabi said:

@Bregir Thanks for your advice. I do agree it's a little to boxy at the moment, so I think I'll strip it down to the first layer of gunports. 

I'll try to follow your advice as much as possible for the redesign. 

Good luck - and keep us updated on the progress - I will try to give feedback as fast as possible as you go along.

 

Also, I have a few ships in progress as you probably already know. This one is only missing some measure of sails:

Polacre xebec WIP by Christian West, on Flickr

Can anyone give some advice on easy to work with and good looking materials or techniques? I dread going back to the sewing machine like I did for the Ironsides.

[Legostone]

26 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Good luck - and keep us updated on the progress - I will try to give feedback as fast as possible as you go along.

 

Also, I have a few ships in progress as you probably already know. This one is only missing some measure of sails:

Polacre xebec WIP by Christian West, on Flickr

Can anyone give some advice on easy to work with and good looking materials or techniques? I dread going back to the sewing machine like I did for the Ironsides.

Looking good! I think the old glue soaked cloth (or just along the cuts) as suggested in this old guide works really well. I recently got some sails made with that technique (the sails from Captain Green Hairs original frigate) which worked well even after recycling:

 

Also don't remind me - I need a new Xebec for my fleet...

 

@Mesabi Bregir and others have already said lots of things, and I'm only gonna add to them. Ahead of time a Sorry about taking your ship apart - but you've been improving recently and I would be glad if we can see more of that happening.

First - the bow. You see yourselves that something seems off, but you really want to use those 6 shooters (which is, while not exactly realistic, completely fine - larger vessels sometimes had chase guns in that area too). You can still work with your detailing around it - like Captain Green Hair did on his Ship of the Line:

given that the guns shoot in an arc, it could be reasoned that there are chasers behind those doors - and the bow would still be plentifully decorated. Sebeus I's Flying Dutchman is another example:

(obviously with non-undead decorations, but I think you should see what I mean)

Just some ideas how you can go about decorating the bow without it looking odd like it is now. You could also go with a different shape of forecastle - if you go with a galleon style vessel (which would make the extra elaborate stern very reasonable) you could go with something like this for the bow like on my galleon:

 

where you have guns instead of the doors. Plenty of options to make the bow fancy while keeping the guns!

 

Talking about the stern - lets have a look at a couple sterns for vessels from different times:

While they are different, they still have one thing in common - the back side is pretty much "flat"beyond stuff that is stuck onto it (galleries, balconies). It isn't half of an octagon which you have now. The very back part is also angled backwards - this gives some extra interior space and also accentuates the shape of the vessel. If it is in any was possible I would try making it a bit wider then the part right before it but still not as wide as the widest part of the hull if possible (if the hull is 20 studs wide at its widest, 18-19 studs is fine for the stern. If the hull is 18 studs wide, 17 or even 18 should still work). 

The round window could look good if you implement it well 

Bregir suggested using slopes for the tumblehome - I think thats probably the best simple technique for it. Just look at @Capt Wolfs Galleons - somewhat simple but really effective vessels: 

 

[Bregir]

I agree with what LS has said - most ships seen from above have that sort of fishtail shape. Narrow in bow and stern and widest on the middle, but with the cabin in the back widening out like a fishtail.

@Capt Wolfis also eminent at using colours to accentuate lateral curvature, which is very clear on Espada de Luna. What is the material you use for sails, btw Capt Wolf? :)

24 minutes ago, Legostone said:

Looking good! I think the old glue soaked cloth (or just along the cuts) as suggested in this old guide works really well. I recently got some sails made with that technique (the sails from Captain Green Hairs original frigate) which worked well even after recycling:

I agree - but I am shamefully looking for something that is easier - with the glue soaken and colouring, I might as well approach the sewing machine again... :P

[Capt Wolf]

10 minutes ago, Bregir said:

What is the material you use for sails, btw Capt Wolf? :)

My sails are just off-white/beige printer paper. I print the designs on them and hand draw the seams with colored pencil.

[Spud The Viking]

I want to show you guys my merchant schooner, feedback is much appreciated.

[Bodi]

@Spud The Viking It looks very good to me, I like the masts and the tiled deck, and the blue stripe works very well for an Oleon a Corrington ship.

@Bregir  That's a nice looking xebec, again, I like the blue stripe. I don't know much about the xebecs, what was their role in a fleet? And thank you for having mentioned the Licorne in your post, in fact she was built hurriedly during the Mardieran challenge, and I think this one is much better, which was built with much more attention, she even has ratlines.

Lastly, an update of the second version of my 74-gun ship, there's still a lot of work to do but since we've launched the Oleon challenge, I think it's time to make some shameless advertising to attract potential members. 

[Legostone]

Looking great so far @Bodi! Really good idea with the red insides - surprisingly simple solution too, I might give that a try too. The stern has a really nice shape too, especially the balcony. I'm not quite sure I like the window arrangement of the galleries yet, the upper level was usually smaller then the lower one - perhaps only go with a single window on the upper level?

[Bodi]

@Legostone Thanks mate. Good point on the upper windows, I'll replace them with the one and half window, like the lower ones. 

[Professor Thaum]

Very impressive one !

And what a shape !!

[Mesabi]

More progress

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

The front is going to be a little boxy to support the six shooters I think, but otherwise I hope its an improvement. 

[Bregir]

11 hours ago, Spud The Viking said:

merchant schooner

Overall good shape of her hull and a nice colour scheme, Spud. I think she might be on the chubby side (length to width ratio wise) but for a merchant that is probably just a sign of plenty of cargo capacity! ;)

Somehow, the proportions of her rig seems a little off, as if she is underrigged. I think I would suggest moving the foremast a few studs forward if possible (and perhaps the main a few studs back) to get longer boom and gaff on the fore mainsail. I would also raise the gaffs (upper booms) up to maybe just above the level where the lower yard hangs.

I like the cargo hatch, the use of brickbuilt guns, and the tiling on the deck, as well as the cabin. Overall, nice work!

10 hours ago, Bodi said:

That's a nice looking xebec, again, I like the blue stripe. I don't know much about the xebecs, what was their role in a fleet?

Thank you, Bodi. Well, they were extensively used by the barbary states for pirate business, being very weatherly, fast, and able to outrun most enemies. They often carried oars to be able to work in light weather, which gave them a distinct advantage in a calm. There were also heavier xebec frigates, often polacre rigged like mine here. One example is the famous El Gamo, which was captured by Speedy. For national navies I think they were mainly used for light frigate duty, amongst which to combat the pirates that would be using similar vessels :)

10 hours ago, Bodi said:

an update of the second version of my 74-gun ship,

Looking fantastic - I am particularly impressed with the galleries and the overall shaping - a very ambitious project!

2 hours ago, Mesabi said:

The front is going to be a little boxy to support the six shooters I think, but otherwise I hope its an improvement. 

Already looking much better, Mesabi - good work on the tumblehome so far.

As to the 6 shooters, I think the picture of the Flying dutchman LS shared would be a good place to go for inspiration. Keep us updated :)

[Bodi]

8 hours ago, Professor Thaum said:

Very impressive one !

And what a shape !!

Thanks Thaum! Glad you like her shape.

@Mesabi, as Bregir said, the tumblehome looks good and I think you could add a couple more of gun ports, there's plenty of space, unless you want to concentrate all the firepower on the bow?

2 hours ago, Bregir said:

pirate business

Are you going to play blackflag too? Time to build a Speedy.

2 hours ago, Bregir said:

Looking fantastic - I am particularly impressed with the galleries and the overall shaping - a very ambitious project!

Thanks Bregir, it's indeed an ambitious project, a lot of repetitive works, and she's making a big hole in my brick stock.

[Mesabi]

Work continues:

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

The front is going to be a little boxy to hold the six shooters, but otherwise I think it will look pretty good. Thanks for the bow examples but the darn things are just so big it's hard to make look right. 

[Legostone]

@Mesabi Getting there! Can you try shaping the sides up a bit? Right now only the center has a tumblehome; if you can't angle the parts at the bow and stern, you can also try moving the angled part out a bit to get a wider central part of the vessel (would also make the stern more balanced with the whole vessel). If you need an example I can see about it tomorrow 

[Bregir]

Good progress, Mesabi! Two things to add to LS comment.

1) I think you should make the cabin a bit narrower. I know I said fishtail, but this might be wagging a tad bit too much. :P

2) Something I forgot last time. Since you want to do string rigging, you should consider how you can ensure strength in the chain plates (where the shrouds are anchored in the sides of the hull.) and where your forestays are anchored too.

If you do that already you will save yourself a lot of trouble later and it will be much easier to make proper rigging.

[Mesabi]

More progress. I removed the stern for now, for reshaping. 

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

I don't have the pieces to give it a lot of cannon ports, so I'm kinda neglecting them. This still will be a warship, but maybe one that relies on crew. 

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

The bow. It needs more detailing, the figurehead, and more curves, but it's a start. I realize that the six barreled "bomb ketch" styled shooter is completely anachronistic, but I think I'll keep it for the rule of cool.

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

[Legostone]

I've been playing a bit with prefabs again as I'll be showing those in my local LUG how to build ships 

...I need more golden hands and flex tubes...

@Mesabi little from me today, but the guns at the front would either be on a swivel or mounted on either side of the bowsprit, not right above it - this way the cannonballs would likely hit the rigging, which would likely be problematic for the whole vessel...

 

[Darnok]

15 hours ago, Mesabi said:

The bow. It needs more detailing, the figurehead, and more curves, but it's a start. I realize that the six barreled "bomb ketch" styled shooter is completely anachronistic, but I think I'll keep it for the rule of cool.

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

Great rework overall, really looking much better already!

THe sixshooter needs another placement though: as it is now, it will shoot the front sails off.

[Mesabi]

Alright, I'm pretty close to finishing, sparing another redesign. Had to remove the six shooter, as it didn't make sense. They're just too dang long for prefab hulls I think. 

Destroying Angel WIP by North White, on Flickr

Thoughts?

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

@Mesabi

The stern needs to be less wide. 

Colored electrical tape is the same dimention as the flaps your using.  Theres a wip pic in this thread where I played around with this. 

The front gun should pivot 

Dont loose focus this has great potential and is a great improvement 

 

[Elostirion]

I am looking for your feedback once more! :-) 

While the hull is ready and I am highly satisfied with it, the masts and sails are still in prototype stadium. What is wrong? What is good? What should I do differently? Please let me know! Thanks in advance.

 

[Bodi]

@Elostirion The headrails, the fully tiled deck and the colour scheme are perfect. The stern, though unfinished, looks very promising, and the Oleon flag is a big plus.

The only part I'm not quite sure is the midship part, usually it's the widest part of a ship, now it seems that your bow is wider.

There are several ways to widen the hull, with jumper and plates, or with hinges, like I did here.

But judging the current progress, I think it's hard for you to widen the hull now, because if you do, you'll have to torn apart practically the whole ship and re-start building from the prefab sections. So if I were you I'll leave it as it is. 

 

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

@Elostirion

The bow does look wider than the ship

Um not loving the rickity shrouds.  Would love to see the 27 long the the 28 narrow over the current ... 

The lowest sail seems to be just a big rectangular sheet lol ... The upper two have a nice shape then the third turns into a bedsheet lol ... If you follow the taper of the upper sails a bit more and curl the bottom corners to make it look tied to the deck it would look good i think

Lastly im sure that rear balcony looks amazing from the stern but without a couple of cannons there it looks unfinished from this angle lol

[Roadmonkeytj]

On 6/23/2018 at 3:01 PM, Legostone said:

I've been playing a bit with prefabs again as I'll be showing those in my local LUG how to build ships 

...I need more golden hands and flex tubes...

...

Any chance you'll be recording that how to and posting it somewhere us non lucky local folk could see?

 

Im liking the center rail treatment but feel it should be gold?

[Legostone]

11 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

Any chance you'll be recording that how to and posting it somewhere us non lucky local folk could see?

 

Im liking the center rail treatment but feel it should be gold?

I'm gonna see if I can take pictures while we are working on it ;)

The ship you see there was only a prototype anyways, don't worry ;)