[MOC] Rugged supercar - Hammerhead (1:9 scale) - Revisiting

[Didumos69]

31 minutes ago, Victor Imaginator said:

@Didumos69 If i was at your place - i'll search for other way to lock the door in place. Something like 41999 - it's easy, doesn't rely on parts deformation, except rubber.

16 minutes ago, Meatman said:

Agree.

Okay then. I guess I needed someone to tell me. Using rubber sounds like a great idea. Will be hard to do the same as 41999, because the doors are slanted (not laido ut on a perfect 1 stud grid), but I could maybe also use rubber in the door hinges. Thanks for the inspiration! (It's a good thing this build is close to being finished, I'm running out of inspiration)

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Didumos69

[Didumos69]

@Victor Imaginator, @Meatman, couldn't get it to wotk with rubber connectors, but there was space for a soft shock inside the door. Managed to do it in a way that I can still grab the car by the side. Think this will do.

 

[BusterHaus]

Nice work with the door lock.

[Victor Imaginator]

@Didumos69 Great. As usual, better than i expected))) I think that black 4L axle pushed 0,5 stud deeper inside can fit better. Also that "OO+" beam can be replaced with bionicle tooth, but i don't sure that it can be handled so easy.

[Didumos69]

10 hours ago, Victor Imaginator said:

@Didumos69 Great. As usual, better than i expected))) I think that black 4L axle pushed 0,5 stud deeper inside can fit better. Also that "OO+" beam can be replaced with bionicle tooth, but i don't sure that it can be handled so easy.

I think a bionicle tooth will do. I will check. If it works I will have to order a few black ones. A fully inserted black axle would sit against the adjustable seats, tthat's why I used an axle with end stop.

11 hours ago, BusterHaus said:

Nice work with the door lock.

Thanks!

[Victor Imaginator]

3L axle with stop and  will have same functionality, but axle doesn't stick outside. But 1/2 bush or half thick 2x1 beam is needed

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, Victor Imaginator said:

3L axle with stop and  will have same functionality, but axle doesn't stick outside. But 1/2 bush or half thick 2x1 beam is needed

Funny, I was thinking of using the same part. The entire lever needs to fall outside the body, otherwise it can't move down. So with this part I would indeed have to use a half bush, but also means I can't put anything in the center axle hole of this part. And with only a 1l beam attached to the pin it feels too much like a lever you see on mixers etc. But with a 3L beam and the 4L axle with end stop it looks OK, imo.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Didumos69

[Victor Imaginator]

Nice))) Is it possible to fit  instead of LBG half bush?

[Didumos69]

3 hours ago, Victor Imaginator said:

Nice))) Is it possible to fit  instead of LBG half bush?

I'm affraid not. In the space right underneath the space behind the half bush (!!) sits a red 7L liftarm. Btw, when you grab the car by the side, with your thumb on top of the door, the black 15L beam spanning the door settles itself behind this red 7L beam. That way you can still hold thecarth  is way.

I changed the colors of the door handles and the side mirrors so they match the H-logos. I think that gives some balance.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Didumos69

[Lipko]

Why not a 3L with stop+teeth part? It looks pretty bad the way it is now...

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, Lipko said:

Why not a 3L with stop+teeth part? It looks pretty bad the way it is now...

The axle has to span 2L between the thin 3x3 lever on the inside of the door and the handle, otherwise the handle can't move down, so the tooth part would sit on less than 0.5L of the 3L axle. But I could combine a thin 3L lever with a tooth using the 4L axle with end-stop:

[Lipko]

Oh yes, sorry. Sometimes I'm just blind.

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, Lipko said:

Oh yes, sorry. Sometimes I'm just blind.

Well, you did bring me back to the tooth, which feels and looks good. With a 2L lever next to it the risk of getting stuck when moving the handle down is also eliminated. This is what it will be:

Edited February 14, 2017 by Didumos69

[Didumos69]

While waiting for some parts in the right color I shot a preliminary video showing the end-result. It's a bit shaky and doesn't show all features, but it does show its overall ruggedness.

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Didumos69

[nerdsforprez]

On 2/14/2017 at 9:45 AM, Didumos69 said:

 

Severely good lookin. Can't wait for the end result

[Didumos69]

On 13-2-2017 at 4:53 PM, legotechnicisawesome said:

Doors should not have a gap, maybe try to replace the small panels with 3x5x2 ones?

19 hours ago, LvdH said:

I think you should replace the yellow connectrors used for the suspension to black, it stands out too much in my opinion. 

You have a point, but I used some yellow parts to emphasize some special functions. Although I did my best to give this car an appealing appearance and I have been sensitive to what others think of it, it remains to be a 'cut the crap', 'no-nonsense', 'old-school' build in the first place. With big holes and some color-discontinuities. So I will stick to the yellow accents and the small panels in the doors.

7 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

Severely good lookin. Can't wait for the end result

Thanks!

[Kumbbl]

Incredible project - IMHO the "best" supercar out there (as far as this can be judged just from this WIP-thread) - at least if you take into account such aspects like "having and following a story", "being unique", "having a soul" - IMHO this should be an official Lego set - it is and represents all what lego technic should be: very well done technical functions worked out in best engineering manner - can't wait to build this car!

[Meatman]

5 hours ago, Kumbbl said:

Incredible project - IMHO the "best" supercar out there (as far as this can be judged just from this WIP-thread) - at least if you take into account such aspects like "having and following a story", "being unique", "having a soul" - IMHO this should be an official Lego set - it is and represents all what lego technic should be: very well done technical functions worked out in best engineering manner - can't wait to build this car!

While this is a good car, The Lego company would never release a model that uses what they would consider a highly illegal building procedure in the suspension. I really wish the suspension was something that Didumos69 could have engineered to avoid having to use this torsion bar method. In my opinion, this is the most discouraging aspect of the entire model.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Meatman

[schraubedrin]

In the current version only the stabilisers rely on torsion bars, if i remember correctly.
So if you drop the stabilisers, everything should be legal.

[Victor Imaginator]

4 minutes ago, schraubedrin said:

In the current version only the stabilisers rely on torsion bars, if i remember correctly.
So if you drop the stabilisers, everything should be legal.

As i understand - there's no question legal or not. Anti roll bars will not deform axles, if model stay on shelf for an year. But torsion used in suspension will deform axles because they will constantly under load.

[Didumos69]

6 hours ago, Kumbbl said:

Incredible project - IMHO the "best" supercar out there (as far as this can be judged just from this WIP-thread) - at least if you take into account such aspects like "having and following a story", "being unique", "having a soul" - IMHO this should be an official Lego set - it is and represents all what lego technic should be: very well done technical functions worked out in best engineering manner - can't wait to build this car!

1 hour ago, Meatman said:

While this is a good car, The Lego company would never release a model that uses what they would consider a highly illegal building procedure in the suspension. I really wish the suspension was something that Didumos69 could have engineered to avoid having to use this torsion bar method. In my opinion, this is the most discouraging aspect of the entire model.

1 hour ago, schraubedrin said:

In the current version only the stabilisers rely on torsion bars, if i remember correctly.
So if you drop the stabilisers, everything should be legal.

1 hour ago, Victor Imaginator said:

As i understand - there's no question legal or not. Anti roll bars will not deform axles, if model stay on shelf for an year. But torsion used in suspension will deform axles because they will constantly under load.

 

Thank you for your kind words @Kumbbl! To me this build need not be something LEGO would offer as a set, but I'm very happy you recognize this as something quite original.

 

Let me clarify about the use of torsion bars; the anti-roll bars use axles as torsion bars, but these are not stressed when the model sits on the shelf, just like @Victor Imaginator said. But even when the anti-roll bars are active, the stress on parts will be very little because of the immense length of the bars (15L).

 

Using the wishbone axles as torsion bars is a different story. Initially I used the axles holding the upper wishbones as torsion bars for all 4 wheels. I'm used to using axles as torsion bars as I like the non-linear resistance they give. I combined them with soft springs and at that point it was correctly noted by @Meatman that the springs hardly did anything. But it was only after reading @zux remarks on deformed axles caused by using them as torsion bars - together with an increasing interest for this WIP topic - that I reconsidered using torsion bars this way. I reverted to the hard springs and tried to skip using wishbone axles as torsion bars entirely. My final conclusion was the following: The model can do without these torsion bars, but then the rear of the car sits a little deeper in its suspension than the front of the car. If you like a more realistic rake angle, and if you like the rear suspension to be slightly more rigid than the front suspension, then the rear suspension can be advanced by using the upper wishbone axles as torsion bars. I opted for the latter, but this time I only added the least of stress to that axle and retained the hard springs. So this time the torsion bars only carry a small part of the entire weight when the model is sitting on a shelf. This is different of course when you compress the suspension, but so far I have not seen any signs of deforming axles or damaged parts securing the axles. And trust me, I have tested the suspension hundreds, if not thousands, of times.

 

To conclude: You can skip using the wishbone axles as torsion bars for the rear suspension and still enjoy this build. You can advance the rear suspension with torsion bars, but with minimal stress and contained chances of deformation.

Btw, maybe this is not the most cheerful occasion to share this, but I am very happy with the fact that @BusterHaus has offered to work on building instructions for this model. This will be quite an effort and will take at least several months. Thanks for starting this @BusterHaus! To conclude, @BusterHaus has provided me with the following nuance in the torsion subject:

Quote

When an axle is used to transfer torque, it has a force on one end and a resistance on the other, both working in opposite directions. Rotating axles are always subject to torsion, even though it's less obvious in most situations.

But in the end everybody has to decide for himself, whether to use axles as torsion bars or not.

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Didumos69

[BusterHaus]

37 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

Btw, maybe this is not the most cheerful occasion to share this, but I am very happy with the fact that @BusterHaus has offered to work on building instructions for this model. This will be quite an effort and will take at least several months. Thanks for starting this @BusterHaus!

You're welcome.  If all goes well the instructions should be ready in about 8-12 weeks.

[Kumbbl]

Thank you very much in advance BusterHaus!!

[Attika]

It's ended up to be a remarkable build. Hats off.  I'm looking forward to build it.

[Didumos69]

On 2/16/2017 at 6:40 PM, Attika said:

It's ended up to be a remarkable build. Hats off.  I'm looking forward to build it.

Thank you @Attika.