[MOC] Rugged supercar - Hammerhead (1:9 scale) - Revisiting

[Didumos69]

2 hours ago, agrof said:

I made some recoloring according my taste, maybe useful as inspiration. 

The chassis is mainly LBG, the swingarms are DBG, the seats and dashboard are black.

Thanks! That's for sure less motley than my version. The only issue is that working with DBG feels a little bit like 'my signature', even though I wouldn't want to claim I'm the only one. And most of my liftarms are DBG. But apart from that I will adopt most of your suggestions, like the yellow shift lever, the black dash and seats. And I will drop the use of red and black beams in the chassis. Thanks again !

Edited December 22, 2016 by Didumos69

[agrof]

I am glad, that You can use the idea. Another ones just popped in my head: You can also use transparent or DBG cylinder pieces to pop-out the engine, and maybe using a pair of this part is more elegant / simple for the shift lever.

A good project deserves Bricklink hauls...  

[zux]

21 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

They fix the axles holding the upper wishbones. These axles serve as torsion bars. I deliberately used normal shocks which are too weak to carry the car by themselves. The nice thing about torsion bars is that their resistance starts subtle and increases fast when they get twisted. This makes dropping the car possible without having the bottom of the car touch the ground. And the shocks actually work as absorbers this way. They absorb the jumping spring effect of the torsion bars. They also make it possible to finetune the suspension by adjusting the way each torsion bar is secured. By using different parts for the front and the back I could incorporate a subtle rake angle. The torsion bars in the front have been secured a little more relaxed than in the back.

Torsion bar suspension was good only "on paper" for my RSW model. While it worked as intended, overtime it lowered a bit. I suspect axle keeps twisting since it is constantly under "pressure". In my case I've reworked suspension to include shocks instead. So it is interesting to see how this is going to work for you as your model is significantly heavier.

[Didumos69]

2 hours ago, zux said:

Torsion bar suspension was good only "on paper" for my RSW model. While it worked as intended, overtime it lowered a bit. I suspect axle keeps twisting since it is constantly under "pressure". In my case I've reworked suspension to include shocks instead. So it is interesting to see how this is going to work for you as your model is significantly heavier.

Okay, thanks for pointing this out. I will check the torsion axles occasionally. They have not deformed sofar. If they do show signs of deformation at some point I will revert to the hard springs and hope I can hold on to the torsion axles just as a means of finetuning the suspension resistance.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Didumos69

[Meatman]

If you are using the torsion method, are the springs really even doing anything? I can see those connectors breaking over time. Those axle holes are not very strong because they so thin. I can see this turning off some people because of the possibility of damaging the parts.

[Didumos69]

9 hours ago, Meatman said:

If you are using the torsion method, are the springs really even doing anything? I can see those connectors breaking over time. Those axle holes are not very strong because they so thin. I can see this turning off some people because of the possibility of damaging the parts.

Yes, the springs roughly contribute half of the resistance right now. Eventually I expect to revert to the harder springs when I add the body. Then the springs will put in most of the resistance and the torsion bars are only for finetuning. If I would use harder springs right now the suspension would be too rigid.

I'm using the torsion method for over 30 years now and I never broke a part with it. When you don't push the suspension to the limit on every occasion the parts fixing the torsion axles should be okay. I have more fear for the axles themselves, also after reading @zux's experience with his RSW model.

When people are reluctant to use torsion bars, they can easily skip them and simply use hard springs. I will keep a close eye on the parts at stake here and if it turns out they cause damage I will probably skip them entirely. The basic idea is to get suspension that actually works when you push the car over a bumpy or otherwise uneven surface, not too rigid, not too sloppy.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Didumos69

[Didumos69]

On 22-12-2016 at 5:28 PM, agrof said:

I am glad, that You can use the idea. Another ones just popped in my head: You can also use transparent or DBG cylinder pieces to pop-out the engine, and maybe using a pair of this part is more elegant / simple for the shift lever.

I updated the LXF-file to reflect several of your suggestions. I also replaced the 1L beam in the seats with black bushes, because the 1L beam is not available in black. I have all the parts available so when I find the time I will also update the real life build.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Didumos69

[ifilin]

16 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

because the 1L beam is not available in black

Appeared already in Set 42062. Please see https://youtu.be/ZchXqaNlHsw?t=556

Edited December 24, 2016 by ifilin

[Didumos69]

On 24-12-2016 at 0:17 PM, ifilin said:

Appeared already in Set 42062. Please see https://youtu.be/ZchXqaNlHsw?t=556

Okay, thanks for letting me know. When they become widely available, I will use them in the seats.

Working on the body is a bit of an LDD-only exercise so far, simply because I don't have the parts. I decided to go for a free style minimal body, so not the Zootopia fast car. This may not be everybody's cup of tea, but I simply can't get used to working with flex axles and panels. I always find myself studying 8880 when it comes to bodywork. A sturdy body with big holes to see what's inside. Also, others are much better at making perfect rounded shapes.

So this is what my workbench currently looks like...

Edited December 30, 2016 by Didumos69

[agrof]

Like the lines so far, and my vote goes for a modern 8880-ish style too! 

These parts are coming on market in bigger amount with these figures: http://brickset.com/sets/theme-Star-Wars/subtheme-Buildable-Figures/year-2017

(Worth to check the Youtube building videos, many new colored parts will be available soon.)

Edited December 30, 2016 by agrof

[brunojj1]

Looks very sporty already - reminds me more of the good old 8865 than 8880 ! Yes, why not go your own style in the old "traditional" way - having a clear concept is more important than using panels at whatever cost. Working with bigger panels requires to work at the real model, using your immagination of the shapes and trying to fit them filling big surfaces and design everything else around them. For me it would be impossible to do it in LDD.

Edited December 30, 2016 by brunojj1

[Didumos69]

The roll cage should survive a real roll-over. And it should be possible to carry the car by the roof .

All angles are 'in system'.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Didumos69

[Rodzilla4]

Your building style is very unique. I am very excited to learn from this build. What exactly does "in system" mean?

[Lipko]

The cage looks very exciting. Making it "in system" is a big extra for me, all those nifty-angled parts usually mean flimsy/unconstrained parts.The possibility to hold by the roof is a good thing. Next: the possibility to hold by the sides .

My principle that anything that looks strong has to be strong, the body should self-imply where the player can grab the model.

[DugaldIC]

Looking good,  strong and stylish ;).  Can't wait to see the finished product. 

[skppo]

9 hours ago, Rodzilla4 said:

Your building style is very unique. I am very excited to learn from this build. What exactly does "in system" mean?

I assume he is only using bent liftarms in ways that can be connected rigidly. Bent liftarms have an angle that fits a specific solution to the pythagorean theorem.

Building in this way is stronger as most connections are made with multiple pins instead of just one at each end.

[Didumos69]

12 hours ago, Rodzilla4 said:

Your building style is very unique. I am very excited to learn from this build. What exactly does "in system" mean?

Thanks! I think @Lipko more or less explained in his reply. He recently used the term in Paul Boratko's Scorpion thread. My interpretation is that all connections are exact fits. In many builds the motto is 'what-ever fits', but in angled structures that may lead to flimsy or over-stressed connections. When you combine 'in system' with closed triangular structures you are likely to obtain a rigid build.

8 hours ago, Lipko said:

My principle that anything that looks strong has to be strong, the body should self-imply where the player can grab the model.

This is exactly my line of thinking. Btw, I only recently studied your Simple Supercar and I must say I'm really impressed. Even though you labelled it as simple, it's a model that out-stands many other builds - also from other masters - when it comes to neatness and rigidity. And all of that in a ridiculously low profile model.

6 hours ago, DugaldIC said:

Looking good,  strong and stylish ;).  Can't wait to see the finished product. 

Thanks! As for the rigidity, I probably need to makes changes when I build it in real life. It looks sturdy, but there are many 'one-pin' connections. The rigidity should come from the triangular structures.

3 hours ago, skppo said:

I assume he is only using bent liftarms in ways that can be connected rigidly. Bent liftarms have an angle that fits a specific solution to the pythagorean theorem.

In fact most angled liftarms have one end that is connected with several pins and one end that is connected to only one pin. When you make sure such 'one-pin' connections are somehow 'form-locked' (in addition to 'friction-locked') it will work out fine (terms recently used and explained by @Jeroen Ottens). As for the Pythagorean theorem, the specific solution you are referring to is the (3, 4, 5)-triangle, which has some nice other properties as well.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Didumos69

[Lox Lego]

12 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

The roll cage should survive a real roll-over. And it should be possible to carry the car by the roof .

All angles are 'in system'.

Love it!! Very cool that you're building offline and online 

[zux]

That body/roll-cage is just gorgeous. It is simple yet complex at the same time, but looks very exiting and wonderful. I can imagine how the final product will look!

Some solutions are new to me, I wouldn't imagine using them.

[Didumos69]

On 3-1-2017 at 3:14 PM, Lox Lego said:

Love it!! Very cool that you're building offline and online 

Thanks!

On 3-1-2017 at 8:32 PM, zux said:

That body/roll-cage is just gorgeous. It is simple yet complex at the same time, but looks very exiting and wonderful. I can imagine how the final product will look!

Some solutions are new to me, I wouldn't imagine using them.

Thanks! I'm slowly progressing towards something I'm happy with. At first, staying away from panels and flex axles felt a bit like an admission of weakness, but I'm actually starting to enjoy this. I want it to look rugged and working with normal parts only adds to that, or at least that's what I like to believe . I could use some panels here and there, but somehow it has become a challenge to keep them out completely.

So I did some digital work on the front. Not many angles this time, only to get a slight curve in the bumper. The longer ends of the angled liftarms each make a pefectly gridded (3, 4, 5)-triangle. So, again everything 'in system'. Next step will be to design the rear end of the car.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Didumos69

[Meatman]

Looking good. Reminds me of the Kuipers Concept Car.

[Rishab N]

Great progress so far. Personally I'm not a fan of the headlights. They look a bit old-fashioned compared to the rest of the angular bodywork

[Didumos69]

9 hours ago, Meatman said:

Looking good. Reminds me of the Kuipers Concept Car.

Thanks! It was in fact Kuipers Concept car that got me out of my dark ages. That car got me acquainted with angular constructions:

9 hours ago, Rishab N said:

Great progress so far. Personally I'm not a fan of the headlights. They look a bit old-fashioned compared to the rest of the angular bodywork

Thanks! I wanted 'piercing' headlights - as in piercing eyes - that add to road presence, like in the Alpha Romeo below. I think they are a tad too big right now. I'll see what I can do to make them a better fit with the rest of the car.

Here's another render showing the 2+ stud ground clearance (click to enlarge).

Edited January 5, 2017 by Didumos69

[legolijntje]

I hope those wheels are just a substitute for other wheels that aren't in LDD? 

Other than that, looks great with all those sharp angles! 

[zux]

1 hour ago, Didumos69 said:

Thanks! I wanted 'piercing' headlights - as in piercing eyes - that add to road presence, like in the Alpha Romeo below. I think they are a tad too big right now. I'll see what I can do to make them a better fit with the rest of the car.

If you are looking for much smaller headlights, similar to those Alfa Romeo has, you might want to consider these printed tiles.