Kai, great write-up! And thanks for keeping the language clear.

I just have three items that need clarifying:

- As @Garmadon points out, I think we had moved to 51% of votes cast, since otherwise abstentions were the same as "no" votes.

- Regarding the PM/Stadtholder/Preimo Vereador/First Councilman/etc., that seat could have its vote count as 3 (or 1 or whatever we choose), but it should be one character, not three like a normal council position (which is actually 3 "seats").

- Players should be able to campaign for and hold a regular council position AND the PM seat at the same time (just put different characters into the positions), otherwise players will be discouraged from running for one or the other and we will have fewer choices (and build opportunities).

Everything else looks good to me. I don't know if the elections are too frequent, but it's good to get us started. The council could always decide to revise it later.

Regarding @Legostone's question, we have several options. We could have a provision for an emergency appointment by the PM to replace a resignation (but not his/her own resignation), or hold an emergency election, or leave the position vacant (but not if PM). Leaving it in the PM's hands might be more interesting, but it doesn't mater to me how we handle it, as long as we have a plan.

9 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

Regarding @Legostone's question, we have several options. We could have a provision for an emergency appointment by the PM to replace a resignation (but not his/her own resignation), or hold an emergency election, or leave the position vacant (but not if PM). Leaving it in the PM's hands might be more interesting, but it doesn't mater to me how we handle it, as long as we have a plan.

Wouldn't it best be handled by the constituency of the seat? I mean, if the Maestro candidate resigns, I am pretty sure Maestro would oppose having anyone else appoint the successor.

9 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Wouldn't it best be handled by the constituency of the seat? I mean, if the Maestro candidate resigns, I am pretty sure Maestro would oppose having anyone else appoint the successor.

Of course a TC seat would be filled by the TC. I was speaking of the regional seats and independent seat, which are chosen through wider elections.

For those regional and independent seats, we could just keep track of who finished 2nd in a campaign, and they would take the seat and fill out the term if the winner resigned.

If the PM resigned, a new election could be held, or the council could appoint someone to fill out the term, or the runner-up could become PM.

Basically, given that terms are only 4 or 6 months, special elections are going to eat into the time of the term considerably, so just looking for ways that are quicker. And I doubt resignations are going to be a common occurrence.

I think if we should be able to vote in all zones we build for in each election, but only running for one zone seat is a good rule. Also the TC and independents seats should only have one vote, instead of three. Passing legislation should be 50% + 1 vote of the total assembly.

The descriptions make the "PM" the head of the legislature, and the Continental Council the executive branch of government. This is backwards from what I thought the titles meant. I always thought of the Continental Council more like the US Senate, and the Colonial Council like the US House of Representatives, both being legislative bodies.

If our national election is for the head of the legislature, and not the chief executive, then any variation of the words minister or magistrate would be misleading terms. I might then go with Adminus Legistrad. This person would then be voting on all measures. A single character with a bock of three votes seems reasonable.

I still think all legislation that passes into law should merit a signing ceremony MOC. Flags, desk, wall, signer, and characters who supported the legislation.

Giving the TC & independent only one vote: Could easily break balance as it is quite likely that one TC controls two areas, which would result in about half the total votes. 

And MOCs (especially with all characters, not everyone has the parts for that) were already discussed earlier. 

I agree with @Legostone, we shouldn't start unbalancing the various positions on the council.

And the council has always been described as something of a hybrid legislative/executive. The PM (or whatever) has never been a true executive, but does serve as a sort of head of state. (It's something like the original US Continental Congress, if you're looking for a historical comparison.) I don't think we need to get caught up in the labels, though. We've come up with a form that should work, and should provide ample in-game interest.

That would be 27 votes, including the 'PM'. Fourteen votes for a majority, and eighteen votes to be veto proof.

2 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

That would be 27 votes, including the 'PM'. Fourteen votes for a majority, and eighteen votes to be veto proof.

Actually, it's just 24 votes (7 regular seats + PM = 8, each with 3 votes), but you've calculated correctly otherwise. It would normally be 13 for a majority (and if we don't count abstentions against the percentage needed, it could be less), and 16 to veto the continental council.

Didn't we want to have an odd number of votes? If so it would make more sense to give the PM 2 votes, and in the case that we end up with an even number (new Region for example) he gets a third vote? I don't think this would be too bad for him, especially as I wouldn't be surprised if the PM fills two roles (so maybe Region leader + PM). 

4 minutes ago, Legostone said:

Didn't we want to have an odd number of votes? If so it would make more sense to give the PM 2 votes, and in the case that we end up with an even number (new Region for example) he gets a third vote? I don't think this would be too bad for him, especially as I wouldn't be surprised if the PM fills two roles (so maybe Region leader + PM). 

Personally, I don't really care how many votes the PM gets, but given that new regions will eventually be added, and players can abstain with their vote, there's no way to guarantee an odd number no matter how many votes the PM gets.

I was thinking four regions.

The tie vote thing I was promoting was when I thought the 'PM' was intended to be a chief executive.

Why not just let the PM have tie-breaking powers? Give him x number of regular votes, plus tie-breaking power.

Then there is actually some power in the position.

3 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

I was thinking four regions.

Ah, got it. Eventually, that will be the case.

3 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

The tie vote thing I was promoting was when I thought the 'PM' was intended to be a chief executive.

 

2 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Why not just let the PM have tie-breaking powers? Give him x number of regular votes, plus tie-breaking power.

Then there is actually some power in the position.

I've always liked the idea of giving the PM (who I am now going to start calling the First Coucilman or FC until we choose a name) tie-breaking powers. I just thought that idea had gone away when we gave him/her votes in the council. With the tiebreaker, it essentially gives the FC a 4th vote when needed. But as I said, I like the idea; it gives the position some power.

8 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Why not just let the PM have tie-breaking powers? Give him x number of regular votes, plus tie-breaking power.

Then there is actually some power in the position.

That works.

3 hours ago, Garmadon said:

I think King Fernando should capitalize the first letter of his name   ...

But I think that is a capital!  Besides, if the King can't use lowercase, who can? 

3 hours ago, Garmadon said:

1. I still think we should require only 51% (or 66%, in the other case) of the voting seats - otherwise, whatever is the point of abstaining, since it is always exactly equivalent with a 'no'?

Okay.  I'm actually in favor of this procedure personally, I just thought we had decided against it.

3 hours ago, Garmadon said:

The floor for campaigning shall open two (or maybe three) weeks before the election begins,

Fine by me.  Three, or two?

3 hours ago, Legostone said:

What if soneone would want to resign?

Good point.  I think we should either a) just move on with the vacancy, or b) the council votes on a replacement.  The exception would be TCs which can fill in their blanks whenever, but otherwise it waits until the next election.  And a resignee shouldn't be allowed to run the next cycle.

2 hours ago, Capt Wolf said:

- Regarding the PM/Stadtholder/Preimo Vereador/First Councilman/etc., that seat could have its vote count as 3 (or 1 or whatever we choose), but it should be one character, not three like a normal council position (which is actually 3 "seats").

- Players should be able to campaign for and hold a regular council position AND the PM seat at the same time (just put different characters into the positions), otherwise players will be discouraged from running for one or the other and we will have fewer choices (and build opportunities).

This sounds fine to me - it's really just a technicality, with a 3 vote seat instead of a 3 seat position.  I'll have to write that last point in though.

1 hour ago, gedren_y said:

...The descriptions make the "PM" the head of the legislature, and the Continental Council the executive branch of government. This is backwards from what I thought the titles meant. I always thought of the Continental Council more like the US Senate, and the Colonial Council like the US House of Representatives, both being legislative bodies...

Given the titles, that would make sense.  In practice, it doesn't.  Leadership would just have to fill both a Council and an Executive (King?).  It's easier just to merge them, especially since there is more than one leader, so it really is a sort of executive council.

1 hour ago, gedren_y said:

Adminus Legistrad

I kinda like this one...  but I prefer tweaking it a bit, say Admius Legistrador.  That way it sounds less like some odd twist off the words Admin and Leningrad.

1 hour ago, gedren_y said:

I still think all legislation that passes into law should merit a signing ceremony MOC. Flags, desk, wall, signer, and characters who supported the legislation.

Are you gonna build 'em?   I think you'll have trouble finding enough volunteers...  But we should certainly encourage members to build signing MOCs.  Maybe we could offer a DB reward.  But that can be handled by the council itself.

5 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

That works.

I think so too.

1 hour ago, gedren_y said:

Adminus Legistrad

Sorry I missed this earlier. I like it! And I'll disagree with Kai; I think this version is better than "Admius Legistrador " I'd compromise on "Admius Legistrad" though. "Legistrador" sounds like somebody mangled "legislator" to me. Or how about "Legostrad" instead?  "Admius Legostrad" anyone?

Admius Legistrad does work better. It makes it seem more like something with a Latin root. No puns in our government titles, please.

  To each his own.  AL is probably how I'd be saying it most of the time anyhow...

Admius Legistrad of Eslandola = ALOE <edit>

The Truachesh delegation is happy with the formalized document. We are ready to sign.

Edited November 30, 20168 yr by gedren_y

Governor Willem Guilder is also satisfied with the formalized document and will sign.

Edited November 30, 20168 yr by Capt Wolf

Governor Monezterrell is also ready to sign. (although I think we have way too many titles here:P)

Lord Maximilian Damaximus aka Prince-in-law of Eslandola and aka Governor of Stedor is very pleased as well

@Legostone: titles? What titles?

Colonel Oystridge, Major of Bardo, supports the constitution, and are willing to sign in new dark red ink.

Crazy stuff ftw!!! 

While I participated a lot in the internal discussions in the past months I didn't contribute anything here in the public thread (due to a lack of time, sorry guys).

But I have to say: Wow! I am very much impressed by the result and am super happy with how it all turned out. Great work everyone who was involved, thank you. I am definitely 100% for it (ooc).

 

My only suggestion would be to set up some additional documents on how the Council Works: Who starts a vote, how much time is there to vote, is there a "leader" of the council in regards to all formal affairs, etc.

 

One question: I could potentially have three positions in the councial at the same time, right? For my TC, for my region, and for the people. Or am I limited to one?

 

I am looking forward to MOCing Fontonajo's reaction to this constitution.

Also someone might need to MOC a parliament-house? Good I would love to do this! Anyone mind if that's on Nellisa? :-) 

 

 

 

And last but not least: Thank you @Kai NRG and @Garmadon - I was very sceptical about how you handled some things in the past, but this is a wonderful thing. Great!

Edited November 30, 20168 yr by Elostirion