Petition: War Theme

[Brickmaster]

I would love a military theme, like many others, you and definately put me for a yes (even though a petition will get you nowhere, really..)

For the sake of not debating, I don't care about violence. It sells. It makes money. It's here, its very real. And its what I build my mocs around. It's already horribly present in lego sets.

Sadly, however, being a childrens toy, a military theme would probably be cartoon-ized, meaning it wouldn't be as realistic as I would like, but frankly at this point I'd take anything. I'm even somewhat happy with the spy agents theme now.

*wacko*

[hollisbrick]

i have mixed feelings about this.

I don't really want a military theme. This is one area which I feel is best left to MOCers. With so many other possibilites, I would rather see the return of an old theme like Pirates or any number of new themes before even considering a military theme.

I guess you can add me to the bad list too. Look at that; we're winning the war :-D .

i definately agree with you, i rather have TLC put there focus on a new piretes, western, ninja or a new theme alto geter (romans/greeks anyone ;-) )

Although i agree with Brickmaster, it is very real and already pretty much in lego like, just because the TLC actually the evil undead sword weiling skeleton or the big robots controlling other big robots/mechs with giant guns and explosives are actually attacking some one, they are definately implying it.

Edited January 20, 2008 by hollisbrick

[5150 Lego]

No, you think its possible, others think not, but until TLC releases a military line, I'd say they were against it. Why? Because kids love military things and war toys, and if Lego did drop the "No Violence" policy, then they would have made this theme eons ago. Thing is, they haven't, so I think the "No Violence" policy remains, just a lot looser than before.

See, this argument just doesn't fly. They still have a "No violence policy, its just looser than before?" Sorry, but violence is violence.

You can argue about the "evidiedence" being all around us, but ultimately, if a military theme was "very possible", it wouldn't have taken this long.

I think we will never see a Military theme, because military = war, while Western, Batman, Pirates, Agents and others = Adventure.

Batbrick is Back! >:-)

No offense, but most of your argument makes no sence. Just cause they haven't made a militray type theme yet doesn't mean that they never will. If you look at past themes, you will notice that they have been working there way up to that realm. I mean, look at the evolution of lego's "violent" associated themes. Its very evident that lego knows that violent themes sell well and they have been testing these waters for quite some time to see how far they can go. So far nearly every theme assosiated with violence has had good sucsess. Every year lego goes deaper and deaper with violence in there themes.

I honestly think they never had one. Think of classic space, pirates, cops, and even Batman all had guns or a form of them. They however do have a no killing policy which is why a military theme will never be produced.

But see, thats the thing. people say that they have a "no killing policy", but yet 2 of there themes show guns blazing right on there box. (exo force and agents), so again, seems that if in fact there was a "No violence" or "no killing" policy, it would seem that lego is changing there so called policies.

Think about it in all of those themes where the killing could have been romanticized into arresting or walking the plank, but in war the loser dies(or thrown into a POW camp[even worse, and an even worse toy]). Luckily Legos can be taken apart and it is quite easy to make your own military MOCs and places like bricklink and Brickarms make it all the easier.

But you don't need to have the other side die. The examples you give are perfect. Lets look at exo force for example. You have the humans battling robots in other in robots and vehicles. Both sides have weapons. both hand, and vehicle based. What would be the differnce by replacing the robots the humans and robots use with jeeps or tanks? And the POW camp? Com'on. I don't know of any toy, even those that are specificly war based that have those, so of course lego wouldn't even go there.

my main point is that Lego could sucsessfully pull off a military TYPE theme without it being any more violent than any theme it currently has. You don't need to have country against country, have POW camps, or it be all about killing. There are many ways around this.

Edited January 20, 2008 by 5150 Lego

[Brickmaster]

I exactly agree with 5150. They could easily pull off a war theme without it being any more violent than any other theme out there, whether its batman or starwars. Starwars even has war in the name! An unofficial war-like theme would be just the same level of weapons than we see now. Every theme out there, except city and trains, now basically revolves around violence. Not even basically. It does.

As for the Pow camps, no other toy has ever done that, why would lego? Don't even go to that area.. *wacko*

[Batbrick]

No offense, but most of your argument makes no sence.

No offense, but thats your opinion, if you looked at my more recent posts in thread, you would see my comments changed. I will state what I say as opinion

I merely say that though a military theme could possibly happen, I don't think it will. Because in my opinion, you seem to fail to lack the difference between a violent theme and a war theme.

I think it goes like this:

Indiana Jones, Batman, Star Wars, Agents, Pirates and Wild west all contain violence, but, this is the important part, aren't about violence. Contain it, yes no doubt, but Batman is about Superheroics, Indy about Adventure, Star Wars about space films, Agents are a campy spyfest, Pirates are about Carribean Adventure and Wild West about the tales of outlaws and sherrifs. None of these themes, in my opinion, are about violence, but instead contain violence. Two different things.

Now war, in my opinion of course, contains violence and is about violence. It doesn't just include violence like the other themes, violence is the driving force behind the set's story.

So thats my opinion, I respect yours, you can respect mine, but I hope you can argue your point without telling me my argument makes no sense, because though it might not possibly be right, it sure does make sense :-)

Batbrick is Back! >:-)

EDIT: and sorry about the heavy use of bolding, I just wanted to put emphasis on certain parts.

Edited January 20, 2008 by Batbrick

[5150 Lego]

No offense, but thats your opinion, if you looked at my more recent posts in thread, you would see my comments changed. I will state what I say as opinion

I merely say that though a military theme could possibly happen, I don't think it will. Because in my opinion, you seem to fail to lack the difference between a violent theme and a war theme.

I think it goes like this:

Indiana Jones, Batman, Star Wars, Agents, Pirates and Wild west all contain violence, but, this is the important part, aren't about violence. Contain it, yes no doubt, but Batman is about Superheroics, Indy about Adventure, Star Wars about space films, Agents are a campy spyfest, Pirates are about Carribean Adventure and Wild West about the tales of outlaws and sherrifs. None of these themes, in my opinion, are about violence, but instead contain violence. Two different things.

Now war, in my opinion of course, contains violence and is about violence. It doesn't just include violence like the other themes, violence is the driving force behind the set's story.

So thats my opinion, I respect yours, you can respect mine, but I hope you can argue your point without telling me my argument makes no sense, because though it might not possibly be right, it sure does make sense :-)

Batbrick is Back! >:-)

EDIT: and sorry about the heavy use of bolding, I just wanted to put emphasis on certain parts.

Please don't get me wrong. I fully respect your opinion. :-) I wasn't insisting that it was wrong in any way, just that it didn't make sense to me. Personally, i really don't see a differnce in a set that contains violence, versus a set about it. I see the point your trying to make, but in all reality, they really are quite the same. And again, it doesn't have to be about violence. As iv'e said before, there are plenty of ways to get around that. Your "Post apocaliptic" theme idea is a good example.

But to be honest, all i really want (and i'm sure most who support a military type theme) are some modern day militray style tanks, trucks, jeeps, jets helocopters and such. heck i've said this many times before, i'd be happy with USC sets of an Humvee, Jeep, tank or somthing of that nature.

[Batbrick]

Please don't get me wrong. I fully respect your opinion. :-) I wasn't insisting that it was wrong in any way, just that it didn't make sense to me. Personally, i really don't see a differnce in a set that contains violence, versus a set about it. I see the point your trying to make, but in all reality, they really are quite the same. And again, it doesn't have to be about violence. As iv'e said before, there are plenty of ways to get around that. Your "Post apocaliptic" theme idea is a good example.

But to be honest, all i really want (and i'm sure most who support a military type theme) are some modern day militray style tanks, trucks, jeeps, jets helocopters and such. heck i've said this many times before, i'd be happy with USC sets of an Humvee, Jeep, tank or somthing of that nature.

Fair enough. I'm glad you understand what I mean.

I think a theme that involves military vehicles but not military action would be a great way to go. Whether it be Area 51, Post-Apoc or something like Dino attack, I think as you say there is always a way around, that way everyone can eat their just deserts :-)

Batbrick is Back! >:-)

[Joey Lock]

Speaking of Post-Apoc, I meant any kind of military...But it would be a cross between Exo-Force and Mars Mission! It would be awesome!! *wub*Lego are so scared that there gonna be sued they take no chances at making sets we want...Mabye we should close since Hinckleys mind wont change, Anyone who wants Military will have to buy 10 Indy sets for a decent army or buy clone brands! 8-

Edited January 20, 2008 by Joey Lock

[Tanotrooper]

I ain't complaining about the current situation, except that I want a dark bley german torso to make standard German troops...

TT

[blueandwhite]

Please don't get me wrong. I fully respect your opinion. :-) I wasn't insisting that it was wrong in any way, just that it didn't make sense to me. Personally, i really don't see a differnce in a set that contains violence, versus a set about it. I see the point your trying to make, but in all reality, they really are quite the same. And again, it doesn't have to be about violence. As iv'e said before, there are plenty of ways to get around that. Your "Post apocaliptic" theme idea is a good example.

But to be honest, all i really want (and i'm sure most who support a military type theme) are some modern day militray style tanks, trucks, jeeps, jets helocopters and such. heck i've said this many times before, i'd be happy with USC sets of an Humvee, Jeep, tank or somthing of that nature.

I think a good way at looking at it is viewing it from the POV of a movie or rating committee. Alot of films that are PG or even G contain certain acts of violence. Many Disney movies that have a distinct G rating feature guns or attempted murder (the villian attempting to kill the hero). Despite this, these rating committees draw a clear distinction between certain violent acts. A movie like Beauty and the Beast or Tarzan is not given the same treatment as say Saving Private Ryan or Gladiator. While I appreciate that there are fans out there who would love this theme, I'm not sure that LEGO would be willing to go in that direction. Alot of people are drawing a clear distinction between certain acts of violence, not unlike the movie review board does. If LEGO sees it this way as well, I would suspect that the likelihood of a military theme is pretty low.

For me this is simply a theme I'm indifferent about. I'm sure it would sell well, but I still wonder whether LEGO wants to go in that direction at this point. Heck, if Indiana Jones sticks around long enough, I'm sure we'll see some more military vehicles anyhow.

[Lt. Veers]

Honestly, LEGO smashed thier non-violence policy with Exo-force. A military theme would be destroying it completely. |-/

[5150 Lego]

I think a good way at looking at it is viewing it from the POV of a movie or rating committee. Alot of films that are PG or even G contain certain acts of violence. Many Disney movies that have a distinct G rating feature guns or attempted murder (the villian attempting to kill the hero). Despite this, these rating committees draw a clear distinction between certain violent acts. A movie like Beauty and the Beast or Tarzan is not given the same treatment as say Saving Private Ryan or Gladiator. While I appreciate that there are fans out there who would love this theme, I'm not sure that LEGO would be willing to go in that direction. Alot of people are drawing a clear distinction between certain acts of violence, not unlike the movie review board does. If LEGO sees it this way as well, I would suspect that the likelihood of a military theme is pretty low.

For me this is simply a theme I'm indifferent about. I'm sure it would sell well, but I still wonder whether LEGO wants to go in that direction at this point. Heck, if Indiana Jones sticks around long enough, I'm sure we'll see some more military vehicles anyhow.

Interesting way of looking at it. While i understand your take, you can still have a military type theme without it resorting to being as grafic as the movies you gave as an example. Just cause the vehicles used would be modern day, or even of the world war II era wouldn't mean it would all of a sudden be any move violent than any other theme lego currently has now. Lets look at the Indiana Jones sets for example.

The Indiana Jones moves were all rated PG-13 if i remeber correctly. Would you consider the legosets there based on to have a "PG-13 rating" type rating? No. Why, cause lego did what they needed to do to make the sets more "PG" or "G" rated. There's no reason why lego couldn't do that with a military type theme that wouldn't be any more violent than Indie,Exo Force, or Agents. Its quite possible.

[General Kannon]

Interesting way of looking at it. While i understand your take, you can still have a military type theme without it resorting to being as grafic as the movies you gave as an example. Just cause the vehicles used would be modern day, or even of the world war II era wouldn't mean it would all of a sudden be any move violent than any other theme lego currently has now. Lets look at the Indiana Jones sets for example.

The Indiana Jones moves were all rated PG-13 if i remeber correctly. Would you consider the legosets there based on to have a "PG-13 rating" type rating? No. Why, cause lego did what they needed to do to make the sets more "PG" or "G" rated. There's no reason why lego couldn't do that with a military type theme that wouldn't be any more violent than Indie,Exo Force, or Agents. Its quite possible.

I dont think you can have a military theme with out killing, like you can with other themes. It is possible to dispose of all the enemies(in the mentioned lines) by means other than killing, but in a military theme death is necessary. This why Lego would probably never make a military theme

[Hinckley]

No offense, but most of your argument makes no sence.

I love posts like this: "No offense but you are a brain dead moron." :-| I'm not calling you a brain dead moron, I'm just providing an example. Saying no offense and then saying something offensive doesn't work. IMO, the only way to do it is to word it in a non-offensive manner. Next time, say "No offense, but I disagree with your reasoning" or something a little more polite.

[Brickmaster]

Sigh, another debate :-| ...

I think with the current themes and violence levels, It's only a matter of time before a war-like theme already appears (more so than already..) Themes just get more and more violent, and it's frankly only a matter of time before it comes to a heavily based war theme.

There already are war themes, actually, just not with conventional tanks and soldiers. Exo force.

It's the robots vs. humans over an area of land (a mountain). How is that not a war? :-|

Frankly, if you dont like voilence or war, then don't buy the products, it's just like censorship. If you don't like it, it's your job to censor yourself from it, as not everybody thinks the same about it as you would.

Another few cents of mine put into the neverending bag of voilence disputes |-/

[5150 Lego]

I dont think you can have a military theme with out killing, like you can with other themes. It is possible to dispose of all the enemies(in the mentioned lines) by means other than killing, but in a military theme death is necessary. This why Lego would probably never make a military theme

Actually no. Killing is not nessasary. The point of the military in any country is to protect there counrty from harm . Weather that be Foriegn, domestic, alien whatever. You don't need need to kill them to do that. You could "dispose" of the enemy in the exact same way you would in any of lego's other violent theme's. Death is not nessasry for a military type theme to exsist.

I love posts like this: "No offense but you are a brain dead moron." :-| I'm not calling you a brain dead moron, I'm just providing an example. Saying no offense and then saying something offensive doesn't work. IMO, the only way to do it is to word it in a non-offensive manner. Next time, say "No offense, but I disagree with your reasoning" or something a little more polite.

Com'on now. I think your insisting a bit much. :-| Sorry, but i felt his points in his argument were contradicting. Please don't try and make it seem like i was out to insult him, cause i wasn't. I guess i didn't say it in the absolute nicest way possible, but i didn't insult him, nor call him a name either. But to help avoid future missunderstandings, i'll make sure to be a bit more nice if i disagree with someones coments. :-)

Sigh, another debate :-| ...

I think with the current themes and violence levels, It's only a matter of time before a war-like theme already appears (more so than already..) Themes just get more and more violent, and it's frankly only a matter of time before it comes to a heavily based war theme.

There already are war themes, actually, just not with conventional tanks and soldiers. Exo force.

It's the robots vs. humans over an area of land (a mountain). How is that not a war? :-|

Frankly, if you dont like voilence or war, then don't buy the products, it's just like censorship. If you don't like it, it's your job to censor yourself from it, as not everybody thinks the same about it as you would.

Another few cents of mine put into the neverending bag of voilence disputes |-/

This is exactly what i've been getting at. Lego already has had war type themes, just not using modern day vehicles. People seem to think that once modern day vehicles are used all of a sudden its completly differnt.

But you know whats funny? Though this isn't the first time i've said this, people make all sorts of excuses for the themes that already exsist with violence in them. Espeacially if its a theme that they like. I've heard some many differnt excuses from "Well pirates have smilely faces, so they were ok", to "Well, Batman uses tommy guns, so there not modern day, so those guns are ok". Not to meantion that the more violence that lego introduces in there themes, some people like to change lego's own policy. First it started out as "Lego has a no violence policy, so that idea will never work"

Then were intrduced with a theme that has violence so it then changes to..

"Well lego has a no modern day weapons policy, so that idea will never happen"

We then see modern day style weapons for mini figs, so the policyonce again changes to..

"well Lego has a no killing policy, so you'll never see it happen". :-|

I'm not quoting anyone in paticular. It just seems like people are running out of excuses to kill the idea of a military type theme from ever happening, so there moddifing Lego's own so called "policy" to suit there reasoning. Again, i'm not quoting anyone in paticular, nor am i trying to call out anyone in this thread. Though i may not agree with everyones reasoning for violence being ok in some themes and not others, i respect those reasonings. :-)

I understand that there of course a line is going to have to be drawn at some point, but i really feel that a military TYPE theme could be done without crossing that line, or without going any farther than TLC has already gone.

It doesn't have to be country against counrty..

It doesn't have to be about killing. its more than possible to get a theme with modern day looking vehicles without it being as bad as people are making it out to be. People seem to think that if TLC ever did go this route that it would for some reason bankrupt the company, and that would be the end of Lego. Even if they did do this theme for a year or two, and cancel it, its not like lego has never had a theme that wasn't sucessfull. Oh well, time will tell.

Edited January 21, 2008 by 5150 Lego

[Hinckley]

Com'on now. I think your insisting a bit much. :-| Sorry, but i felt his points in his argument were contradicting. Please don't try and make it seem like i was out to insult him, cause i wasn't. I guess i didn't say it in the absolute nicest way possible, but i didn't insult him, nor call him a name either. But to help avoid future missunderstandings, i'll make sure to be a bit more nice if i disagree with someones coments. :-)

Settle down, man. Since when are you a trouble maker? I'm not insisting on anything, you make your own decisions. Like I said, I think it's funny when somebody says "no offense" but then says something offensive. That's all. And for you to tell someone their arguments don't make any sense I find a bit rude. I don't know why you've been displaying this confrontational behavior lately, but I hope you stop and go back to being a good example for other members...I think you're a good member and I like you a lot. If you have any further comments or questions about this, please feel free to PM me. Thanks.

[5150 Lego]

Settle down, man. Since when are you a trouble maker? I'm not insisting on anything, you make your own decisions. Like I said, I think it's funny when somebody says "no offense" but then says something offensive. That's all. And for you to tell someone their arguments don't make any sense I find a bit rude. I don't know why you've been displaying this confrontational behavior lately, but I hope you stop and go back to being a good example for other members...I think you're a good member and I like you a lot. If you have any further comments or questions about this, please feel free to PM me. Thanks.

Hinckley, My apoligizes. I didn't realize that my behavior was becoming to agressive. I'll make sure to keep it in check. :-) And if i offended anyone in any of my posts i apolagize.

[Joey Lock]

I was thinking...

I was wacthing Indiana Jones movies, wouldnt it be cool if they bring out a Panzer taken over by Indys dad and his old friend? Or the Steps to get to the Holy Grail and meet the old Crusader!

Just a Lil idea...

[Mile85]

NO WWII theme! If it's gonna be war theme, it would be better to have older theme..WWI theme maybe.. I can't see building modern weapons with lego, to be very funny. And funny it should be.

[TheFrisian]

I understand the immense popularity of war based themes, and I can certainly appreciate a well designed war MOC as much as anyone. But for TLC to release an official war theme would in my opinion be crossing a line. Every LEGO theme so far has been about having adventures and stimulating the imagination, even those with a certain amount of violence. The themes that actually have weapons are placed either in a romanticized historic setting, or a completely fictional setting. A war theme would be all about reality based machines to inflict violence and/or realistic violence itself, and in my opinion that would be a violation of the underlying principles of LEGO.

So I hope you don't mind that I do not support this petition.

[Joey Lock]

NO WWII theme! If it's gonna be war theme, it would be better to have older theme..WWI theme maybe.. I can't see building modern weapons with lego, to be very funny. And funny it should be.

Mile im sorry but...

I cant see little kids having fun with 2 Trenchs full of people and running over and getting shot...Can you?

[Brickadier General]

Online petitions aren't very effective. Plus, even if Lego did get a lot of requests I don't think they'd make a "modern war" theme, although in the past I felt it would have been possible. In an age of political correctness, I think there would be too many parents raising hell over this. Take World War II...

You need sets for the axis powers, right? Nazi Germany is a must. The problem with this? The Jewish community would especially be unhappy, and the memory of the Holocaust is so strong with most people. It is so strongly associated with the regime, that it wouldn't matter if Lego didn't make models having to do with the Nazis in regard to the Holocaust. Plus, Lego would be unable to sell these sets in Germany.

Modeling the Japanese is another problem, as I don't think it would go over so well in China where they were brutally occupied by Japan during the war.

But just because Lego probably wouldn't make a minifig scale war theme, I'm sure that they could still make an ultimate collector's series type model of a tank or plane, as they did with the World War I Sopwith Camel and Red Baron's Tri-plane. But even then, there would still most likely be limits as to what they could produce.

[Captain Green Hair]

I would like to see camouflaged or olive green bricks! *wub*

[hollisbrick]

I understand the immense popularity of war based themes, and I can certainly appreciate a well designed war MOC as much as anyone. But for TLC to release an official war theme would in my opinion be crossing a line. Every LEGO theme so far has been about having adventures and stimulating the imagination, even those with a certain amount of violence. The themes that actually have weapons are placed either in a romanticized historic setting, or a completely fictional setting. A war theme would be all about reality based machines to inflict violence and/or realistic violence itself, and in my opinion that would be a violation of the underlying principles of LEGO.

So I hope you don't mind that I do not support this petition.

i really really agree with you there, it's what seperates lego from the other clone brands/other toys and ect