[TC11] Technic Contest Battle Bots - Discussion Topic

[Erik Leppen]

And that's exactly what I think the rule is. But it has never been made explicit. The bot should fit in a 45x45x45box with the front of the bot facing the side of that box.

This is also in line with the actual BattleBots, where bots are placed on a colored square on the floor before the match starts.

[Aventador2004]

i am okay with that rule but it does seem small

[msk6003]

I aggree to other's.

In original battlebots, robots allowed diagonal blade. Like icewave.

(In yellow square you can see 'blade cature')

[aminnich]

When will the entry topic open up? This weekend? 

[Jim]

I will try to open it ASAP. Hmmmm better yet....I think this is a nice job for our newly appointed Moderator @Milan 

[aminnich]

I was going to have him included in that post, and complain and complain that it is not open yet just for some fun, but I'll go easy on the new guy. 

i would think this weekend would be a good time to open it 

[Milan]

1 hour ago, aminnich said:

I was going to have him included in that post, and complain and complain that it is not open yet just for some fun, but I'll go easy on the new guy. 

Your fancy pants new moderator guy is on it!

[aminnich]

Are we allowed to reserve a spot? Or do we have to post everything for the initial post 

Edited April 5, 2017 by aminnich

[Milan]

19 minutes ago, aminnich said:

Are we allowed to reserve a spot?

No.

[Milan]

Guys, it is time.

Bring your Bots to the Entry Topic.

Make sure to read rules and requirements in the Entry topic!

You still have enough time for building!

[roppie11]

woops i gotta make that video fast. But first i need to finish my bot

[Erik Leppen]

I have to say the size rule is really badly thought out. I'm seeing various discussions in various discussion topics for the entries, and there's a lot of confusion sbout something that should be dead simple .

Has to fit within 45L in any direction? Then it should fit in a 45-diameter circle. With 45 max height this is a cylinder of height 45 and diameter 45.. Has to fit in 45L in any direction in 3D? Then it has to fit in a 45-diameter sphere. I agree that's not practical, but right now the bounding box is a cube. It has to fit in the cube, so the top view has to fit in a 45x45 square, which is in agreement with what we see on battle bots TV show that have colored squares in the arena. But this square has a diagonal of just over 60.

So, a 40x40 square bot is allowed, no matter the color scheme, so the diagonal stripe on top of it is allowed, which is 56L. But a diagonally placed weapon of the same size is apparently too long even if it's well within the box.

Either change the bounding box to a circle, or accept that diagonal parts can be up to 60. As it stands now, the rule is just not consistent with itself, and therefore automatically arbitrary.

Think this through better next time.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Erik Leppen

[aminnich]

I agree with you, but it has been discussed multiple times and the size constraint stays the same. With 2 weeks left until the deadline, the rules should not be changed now. Plus, I think we have pretty awesome bots that fit in the 45x45x45 cube! 

[Erik Leppen]

I agree the rule shouldn't be changed now. But I hope discussions like this can be prevented by making the size rules simpler for upcoming contests.

[Jim]

The rule is pretty simple. But like any contest, some people are making it much more complicated than necessary.

[Erik Leppen]

The rule is simple, but the judges aren't sticking to it, and disallow situations that seem fine to me (so, apparently, it's not simple for me - and I'm not dumb or whatever, but I am precise). When I have access to my home PC with MLCAD again, I will show some examples of what I mean.

[Rennuh]

The rule seems simple but there have now been two instances where it was said that a bot that did fit inside the box but had a diagonal longer than 45 would not be allowed. 

Here: 

and here:

Both bots fit the 45x45x45 yet apparantly are not allowed? 

I think it's a pretty straightforward rule as well, but as you can see it's been explained differently, hence the confusion and discussion. 

[allanp]

It seems to me that a robot has to fit within a 45x45x45 cube.

• Maximum size is 45Lx45Lx45L (when not in battle mode)

Once a battle has begun a robot can extend beyond that size limit.

• Maximum size is 45Lx45Lx45L (when not in battle mode)

The exception to that is a spinning bar which cannot extend beyond the size limit when in use. For example, a spinning bar that is 55 studs long will fit inside a 45x45 cube if it is positioned diagonally, but when it spins as the fight begins, meaning the robot is now in battle mode, the ends of the blades will extend beyond the 45x45 limit and so it's not allowed. Is that correct? If so, there is no rule in the first post which states that clearly. It's also a little strange that all other designs are allowed to extend beyond the 45x45 limit however a spinning bar, for reasons yet to be explained, cannot do so. I believe this is where the confusion is coming from. If you wish to ban the use of a spinning bar that extends beyond the 45x45x45 size limit when in use (in battle mode) that's obviously your prerogative, but as this spinning bar exception contradicts (when not in battle mode) then perhaps it should be clearly stated in the rules?

Edited April 9, 2017 by allanp

[heyitsdisty]

Hey, great contest. Quick question - does the weapon/signature move need to be independently controlled, or can it be driven with the drive motors (so for example, a spinning disc connected to the drive wheels with a chain or belt)?

[msk6003]

5 hours ago, heyitsdisty said:

Hey, great contest. Quick question - does the weapon/signature move need to be independently controlled, or can it be driven with the drive motors (so for example, a spinning disc connected to the drive wheels with a chain or belt)?

Try fint 'Bison'. It control it's weapon by drive motor. So it's allowed.

[agrof]

On 2017. 03. 07. at 0:17 PM, Milan said:

Tires are also slightly "deformed" when used in some heavier MOCs, so Yes, it is okay for you to make your friction-gearing gizmo

This is ok, too.

Roger that. I solved with friction gears, but normal gears, chains, pushrods or whatever can do the job. Main thing, that somehow the movement of the weapon must be driven by a motor.

[Appie]

On 9-4-2017 at 0:21 AM, Rennuh said:

The rule seems simple but there have now been two instances where it was said that a bot that did fit inside the box but had a diagonal longer than 45 would not be allowed. 

Here: 

and here:

Both bots fit the 45x45x45 yet apparantly are not allowed? 

I think it's a pretty straightforward rule as well, but as you can see it's been explained differently, hence the confusion and discussion. 

The rule has been pretty clear since page 2 of this topic and both topics you linked failed to read it properly. It has to fit in a cube of 45x45x45 pre-battle with no cheating by positioning stuff diagonally.

So Jim is right:

On 8-4-2017 at 9:32 PM, Jim said:

The rule is pretty simple. But like any contest, some people are making it much more complicated than necessary.

 

On 8-4-2017 at 10:40 AM, Erik Leppen said:

Think this through better next time.

What do the 2 topics linked by Rennuh gain from being build so big? What of their functions couldn't have fit in a smaller format? Remember these bots won't actually be fighting anyway. So the entries are more a proof of concept than an actual battle bot. In other words: size shouldn't matter.

[aminnich]

15 minutes ago, Appie said:

The rule has been pretty clear since page 2 of this topic and both topics you linked failed to read it properly. It has to fit in a cube of 45x45x45 pre-battle with no cheating by positioning stuff diagonally

Wait wait, my bot fits perfectly, Milan approved 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by aminnich

[Appie]

49 minutes ago, aminnich said:

Wait wait, my bot fits perfectly, Milan approved 

 

Where? I see no post of Milan in your topic, only an image of you with a 45L shape on 2 ends of your bot, which imo proves nothing that the whole contraption is within 45x45 since that requires the measurement of 2 dimensions at the same time and not one and the image linked by Rennuh from your topic clearly shows it isn't when measured in two dimensions.

Technically, my bot could be starting the match in the arena with the main weapon at a slight angle, but it fits. 

Quoted from your topic. This is a classic "finding a loophole in the rules", which was nulled on page 2 of this topic.

 

But answer me this question from my last post:

1 hour ago, Appie said:

What of their functions couldn't have fit in a smaller format?

 

 

[Rennuh]

1 hour ago, Appie said:

The rule has been pretty clear since page 2 of this topic and both topics you linked failed to read it properly. It has to fit in a cube of 45x45x45 pre-battle with no cheating by positioning stuff diagonally.

 

Why is positioning stuff diagonally cheating? This does not make any sense at all, especially considering the following sentence from the rules which comes right after the size limitation:

"This is the size when the robot is in idle/storage mode. When the robot is in battle mode elements can be outside of the bounding box."

If it is so simple, then please explain to me how a blade or hammer or whatever moving part of a bot cannot be longer than 45 (even if it fits inside the 45x45x45 box) while a diagonally placed beam inside the structure of a bot can be longer than 45 no problem. Let me give an example:

Let's say the blue square is my bot, fits perfectly within the boundaries right? Now the red line are just some beams I have fixed to the top to give it a nice colored stripe, and are a total length of 60, but it's fixed to my bot so no problem there right?

Now let's say that the grey circle is a motor and the red beam is attached to it so it can spin. Now all of a sudden this is an issue because it's longer than 45? 

To be clear, I am not against the rules as they are, they are fine and shouldn't be changed that's not what anyone is asking. Implementing them in an inconsistent way though is what's bothering people I think. 

Quote

What do the 2 topics linked by Rennuh gain from being build so big? What of their functions couldn't have fit in a smaller format? Remember these bots won't actually be fighting anyway. So the entries are more a proof of concept than an actual battle bot. In other words: size shouldn't matter.

I think making use of the available size is quite important actually, even though they will not actually fight like you say, a bots size does factor in to it's effectiveness.