LM Vision Command for WinXP

[jarstx]

Hello everyone,

This is an old topic but I need your help.

I acquired the set 9731 LM Vision Command without the original software but I have already found the version for Windows 98.

Now i'm searching for the English version for WinXP and I can't found nowhere. At BrickLink, only other languages are on sale for WinXP :(

 

Can someone share the installation CD in English of LEGO Mindstorms Vision Command for WinXP or where can I download the software in English??

Any help appreciated...

Edited March 5, 2017 by jarstx
Tags addition.

[UVAChEEngineer]

Just posted a comment on another, older thread.  I had the same issue but essentially found a way to install VC in English for Win98, copy the back end data files, uninstall VC in English for Win98, install VC in French for XP, and then paste over its data files with the data files from the original install.  Bit of a tedious effort but it ultimately gave me the XP version with more stable QuickCam drivers and ended up having all of the critical menus / buttons, videos, audios, and mission text in english.  You can find that post at:

 

 

[DrJB]

When 9731 was released it came with a Windows 98 CD (I have it, in English). Are you sure there is a Win XP version?

[Jurss]

I suppose, that ll kind w98 soft should work also on wxp.

There could be some issues with 32bit soft on 64bit wxp.

[UVAChEEngineer]

I am about 99.9% sure that there was a follow up release specific to Windows XP for two reasons.  First, a google search will uncover numerous images showing print runs of Vision Command software CDs specifically branded for WinXP - Example: https://archive.org/details/legovisioncommandxp.  Second, I have found several branded .iso files for French, Dutch, and German language installs that are tagged for WinXP.  I have installed the French Win XP .iso version found on the web and the English Win 98 version I have the CD for on two physical PCs and two virtual boxes to do performance testing / comparisons.  In every scenario, the software and camera worked better on the WinXP version.  A deeper dive into the install files shows a Logitech Qucik Cam driver update on the XP install that is approximately 2 years newer than the Win98 install which probably explains alot of the performance improvements.  I don't recall for sure, but I think the help menu versioning on both installs implies they are both version 1.0 but this is most likely an oversite by the software developers as the underlying drivers in each install are definitely different.

Interestingly, I have yet to find an English WinXP .iso for Vision Command or a CD via 3rd party sales sites.  I suspect Lego may have released the Vision Command product at different times in different regions of the world OR they may have just done a regional update for the product at some point.  Either scenario may explain the lack of an English Windows XP version of the software.

[djm]

Doing a bit of trawling for a solution. This may help: https://web.archive.org/web/20060513221455/http://www.abs-robotics.com/tips/install/win2k/vc.htm

It suggests a way to apply upgrades applicable to XP. I can't vouch for this but would be interested in knowing if you do try the outcome (whether successful or unsuccessful) . Perhaps if you do try, post a reply on this thread?

Regards,

David

[DrJB]

You're absolutely correct... Good News: I looked into my old collection of CDs and found one that says Vision Command - Windows XP.

I recall now that, within the Vision Command box, there was a Win98 CD but there was also a letter that gave instructions on how to obtain the XP CD, and I did request it years ago.

Now, how do I get a 'copy' of such CD to you, it is about 350 MB. Options?

Edited December 11, 2022 by DrJB

[UVAChEEngineer]

Very cool!  So my suspicion was true.  I know a number of people have sought that install over the years.  The fact you had to mail away for it most likely explains its scarcity online.  Easiest way is to probably rip it to iso and host on a google drive. Alternatively, you can copy all the cd files to a zip folder and host that on a google drive.  I can pull that down, test it, and eventually rebundle it as an iso should someone else need it.

Edited December 12, 2022 by UVAChEEngineer

[DrJB]

Sounds good. I'll do that sometime tomorrow as I must go to bed now. Good Day.

[Mikdun]

18 hours ago, DrJB said:

Options?

Archive.org? This way it will be visible to everyone, I guess. (This is what Robin Harbron aka. 8-bit Show and Tell allays recommends).

[DrJB]

CD files (ZIPped) uploaded to Archive.org. Try to download/run. If not, make an ISO on a virtual drive. ...

Someone please try this and let me know if it works.

https://archive.org/details/vision-command-xp

[aFrInaTi0n]

Its a sysadmin here & I have enough experience with old DLLs/Executeables for 32bit systems - generally it shouldn't be a big issue to use them generally in modern x64 systems, thanks to WoW64 - one just needs to know what to do..

[UVAChEEngineer]

11 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

Its a sysadmin here & I have enough experience with old DLLs/Executeables for 32bit systems - generally it shouldn't be a big issue to use them generally in modern x64 systems, thanks to WoW64 - one just needs to know what to do..

For the most part, I agree.  I'm a moderate tech user but have struggled to get most of the RIS system fully working on any 64 bit platform.  For most casual Lego users, I think its a stretch especially since we are battling a ton of other issues with the sets like 9v wire rot.  At some point, you throw your hands up and move on to the newer stuff.  I know the Lego developed driver for the USB IR tower from RIS 2.0 doesn't seem to have any known workaround on 64 bit platforms other than to run a 32 bit VM OR to buy the serial IR tower and use a USB to serial adapter. 

This discovery around Win98 vs WinXP VC was more of an issue with flagrant bugs and a really buggy Logitec quick cam driver.  Getting the latest known applications like DrJB's WinXP Vision Control in English find removes a significant hurdle for a lot of users so I think we can call this a big win!  Thank you DrJB!  I have pulled a copy of the file but will probably not get back around to testing it until this weekend.  If its anything like the Frankenstein of a program I created (Installing the French WinXP VC and backending the english data directories from my English Win98 VC), then I am sure it is going to work well for many users who chance upon it.

Edited December 13, 2022 by UVAChEEngineer

[aFrInaTi0n]

Fingers crossed it all works out - yeah ok, havent thought about dlls for serial ports or generic HW implementations - there the abstraction layer of more modern x64 OSes won't allow the old way of interacting with the OS-level functionality.

Btw megabluck, plenty of time has passed since then and I am getting an old fart xD

[Toastie]

Same here: Fingers crossed! Another very good entry to put up on the Internet Archive/retro computing for sure!!!

35 minutes ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

I am getting an old fart

Welcome to the club

Best,
Thorsten

P.S.: Tracing 9771 - as far as I know, there is no circuit diagram out there. And such a diagram is very important. To me. And maybe The Archive

42 minutes ago, UVAChEEngineer said:

USB IR tower from RIS 2.0 doesn't seem to have any known workaround on 64 bit platforms other than to run a 32 bit VM OR to buy the serial IR tower and use a USB to serial adapter.

Well, there actually is one. Essentially, you need to build that driver using an "enormous" NI environment, which needs to be installed. Plus, it seems at the driver "compliant level" one walks into muddy waters. I simply gave up at that point: The serial tower is still available (dead cheap) as well as the USD2Serial converters are. Although I usually take the long run, that was too much for me.

Furthermore, I really blame it on TLG: They >never ever< cared about conservation of electronics/software. Zill. Which is so contradictory to their ABS/bricks approach.

Best,
Thorsten     

[DrJB]

6 hours ago, Toastie said:

... I really blame it on TLG: They >never ever< cared about conservation of electronics/software. Zill. Which is so contradictory to their ABS/bricks approach.

Best,
Thorsten     

Not to 'excuse' them but, it appears for their electronics/software, they were always sub-contracting them. As such, it is difficult to ensure continuity/longevity. I doubt they have the internal know-how and resources for that. TLG has primarily been a plastic toy company. Anything else is, well, find someone outside who can do it and pay them.

Edited December 13, 2022 by DrJB

[Toastie]

11 hours ago, DrJB said:

their electronics/software, they were always sub-contracting them

That is true.

Let me phrase it differently: TLG has either never asked their subcontractors for proper documentation, or they have never released such documentation except for maybe the early Mindstorms era. Of course: They don't want their competitors to boldly copy all that beautiful hard/software (which they do anyway), but then they should not release building instructions at all .

Well, I speculate that they simply did not want the proper documentation for another reason: That is the most expensive process when coming up with new electronic gadgets: Writing it up, making drawings, give some explanations. Plus, the limited lifetime of electronics (as per their "decision") makes them even less interesting. And yes, others don't do it either. However, TLG a) charges quite some money for their electronic stuff and b) I thought it would nicely fit the high standards they apparently have ... trashing a USB IR tower just because a 64bit operating system needs a 64bit driver - and not asking a subcontractor to make one (with the 32 bit driver available) - is not very high standard, as far as I am concerned. But then: PF, BL and BLE came along, and maybe they were looking forward to selling those devices rather than having a handful of people playing with that old stuff.

Best,
Thorsten

18 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said:

I have enough experience with old DLLs/Executeables for 32bit systems

For drivers as well? See above - the USB IR tower does not work on 64 bit machines due to the lack of a 64bit driver ...

I believe many people have tried to make it work, but it does not. And should not/cannot, as per my understanding. Sure VMs etc. will work, not the point though. All the software depending on tower communication works perfectly well on a 64bit OS. Just that tower does not.

[Mikdun]

4 minutes ago, Toastie said:

Well, I speculate that they simply did not want the proper documentation for another reason: That is the most expensive process when coming up with new electronic gadgets: Writing it up, making drawings, give some explanations.

True, but they could release the schematics at least. This must already exist, in whatever form, and will help a lot to keep the obsolete stuff alive.

[jarstx]

Hello everyone,

I had already found the CD/ISO of the Vision Command for WinXP in English but I forgot to post it here...

For those who need the software, here is the link:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ohsruj4zmjy9g#718o6673jhpn9

Edited December 13, 2022 by jarstx

[Toastie]

39 minutes ago, Mikdun said:

True, but they could release the schematics at least. This must already exist, in whatever form, and will help a lot to keep the obsolete stuff alive.

I could not agree more.

As I could nowhere find schematics for the 9771 Lego Interface 1 ISA bus card - I just finished tracing the PCB . It is plain vanilla TTL LS logic (and that is my world!!!) - using the ISA bus lines A0 - A9 for addressing (hard-wired, w/ option to select one alternative address by removing a soldered bridge), IOR/IOW for parallel read/write access (along with AEN for yielding to the DMA controller with 74LS30, 74LS86, 74LS27) to/from two 8bit D FF transparent latches (74LS373), which are connected via the LEGO 20x ribbon cable to the Interface 1 box. The schematic of the latter is already available here: https://archive.org/details/9750-schematics/page/n3/mode/2up

If not found anywhere else, I'll post the 9771 schematics here.

Best
Thorsten

[BrickTronic]

2 hours ago, Toastie said:

...

As I could nowhere find schematics for the 9771 Lego Interface 1 ISA bus card

...

If not found anywhere else, I'll post the 9771 schematics here.

Best
Thorsten

Hello,

9771 Schematic was reverse engineered here

And you can control the Interface "A" also by your parallel LPT Port

 

Jo

 

[aFrInaTi0n]

3 hours ago, Toastie said:

For drivers as well? See above - the USB IR tower does not work on 64 bit machines due to the lack of a 64bit driver ...

I believe many people have tried to make it work, but it does not. And should not/cannot, as per my understanding. Sure VMs etc. will work, not the point though. All the software depending on tower communication works perfectly well on a 64bit OS. Just that tower does not.

Unfortunately I wasn't 100% in the topic when I wrote that statement and was only thinking about regular (non-hardware related) 32bit DLLs. So "old Fart not even being able to read correctly" 

 

[Toastie]

On 12/13/2022 at 6:47 PM, BrickTronic said:

9771 Schematic was reverse engineered here

And you can control the Interface "A" also by your parallel LPT Port

How cool is this? I searched for weeks ... thank you very much!!!

*SNIP: Schematic updated and moved to this thread: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/192941-lego-interface-a-97509771-–-lego-technic-control-1-tc1-referenceideas-thread/

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Toastie
Don't want to derail this VC thread

[DrJB]

With such diagram now in the open ... should we expect some copycat solutions from the 'far-east' anytime now?

Also, and on a slightly different topic, I was looking at the parts for Spike Prime Expansion Set (45681), and one such part is a 'proto-board' for mounting 3rd party SBC (Single Board Computers). What does this say about Lego? ... opening up to Arduino, Raspberry PI and the like?

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=45681-1

Edited December 14, 2022 by DrJB

[Toastie]

Well, I believe even the Eastern World may not see a business model in making 9771-clones  I believe this is more in the Tindy (or the like) territory - where some freaks create, among a million other nice items, wonderful things to revive old computers ...    

Spoiler

*SNIP: 9771 stuff Moved to this thread: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/192941-lego-interface-a-97509771-–-lego-technic-control-1-tc1-referenceideas-thread/

With regard to 45681: Did you see this thread?   

 

Best,
Thorsten

Edited December 15, 2022 by Toastie
Content was not related to OP