Future LEGO Pirates Set Speculation

[Murdoch17]

7 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

It seems a bit unfair to say Paradisa failed miserably, seeing as it had a perfectly solid run stretching back to Lego's golden era, and many of its sets are still looked back on rightly as classics. It doesn't belong with the others on your list at all

I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading none of the girls sets made money during this time, and Paradisa is one of those themes. Up until Friends came out, everything 'girly' failed by the LEGO point of view.

Edited October 27, 2024 by Murdoch17

[DonQuixote]

4 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I prefer to complete my collection with old official sets from Bricklink and Ebay and buy the occasional new sets that I like such as the new Galaxy Explorer. I still like the Lego company but they lose a lot of sales when they only do Hollywood stuff nowadays and almost nothing for people like us that grew up with the original themes.

Ah the Galaxy Explorer remake. Fantastic set for a reasonable price.More of this please. Way better looking than Starwars ships.Was a lot on sale for €80. A shame it didn't sell well.Retired really fast.

3 hours ago, Murdoch17 said:

I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading none of the girls sets made money during this time, and Paradisa is one of those themes. Up until Friends came out, everything 'girly' failed by the LEGO point of view.

Actually I liked Paridisa. A friend of mine had a couple of sets such as the Paridisa villa on a raised baseplate with the black car . I don't remember the set  number but I do remember playing with Paridisa. The colors were cool .White,pink and grey.

Damn I'm old

[Klaus-Dieter]

I can't agree more, @SpacePolice89!

 

In these days in the one hand I have to agree with @Murdoch17 that Lego couldn't live without licenses since our today's world seems to be license crazy.

But at the same I have to disagree that the classic Lego themes apart from City some sort of failed forever. Look at the majority of the unlicensed sets from the late ninetees to the mid 00s: In contrast to the sets from the eightees and early ninetees they looked horrible simple. It was no surprise that they should fail. In contrast, the licensed sets were build very detailed from the beginning on. So to a decent part, it weren't the licenses but the again more detailed built sets which helped Lego to survive.

In contrast, these days Lego releases great and bad sets at the same time - independent whether unlicensed or licensed.

That Lego thinks their classic themes don't work, is their own fault. E. g. look at the Pirates wave of the last twenty years: The 2009 Pirates were designed with much love, the vehicles were detailed and the buildings ok. In contrast, in 2015 Pirates got much too small buildings and too undetailed vehicles plus a ship for the soldiers was missing - so no surprise that this wave failed.

When Lego releases retro sets which are detailed, designed with love and have a good price ratio performance then they'll be bought like hot cakes. Lego exactly knows what we want. So I really do not understand why they hesitate so much.

Apart from that I think it's a bit some sort of duty of a toy company to bring imagination to kids. But licenses are everything other than creativity but only displaying and in the best re-playing scenes from movies and games. Not allowing kids of these days to get access to new Castle, Pirates and Space sets (apart from some expensive ad standalone sets without add-ons) is imo very questionable and unfair. And in some time in the future it will retaliate for Lego because today's kids have no longer a relationship to Lego products, but only to the licenses, and so I predict that when they'll be teens and even adults, they won't buy any Lego any longer.

Edited October 28, 2024 by Klaus-Dieter

[SpacePolice89]

6 hours ago, Murdoch17 said:

They'd been bleeding money for a while, it just was 1997 that they posted a deficit in income (no longer in the black, so to speak). This just didn't happen overnight, it was a several year or more process - maybe even a decade due to mismanagement of various items, among other things. (like the theme parks)

Also, I guess you don't think Bionicle is a in-house theme. Hollywood may have helped, but Bionicle put the nail in the Mattel offer's coffin, as I said. Maybe you should look into buying the book I stated before, along with 'A Million Little Bricks', as that goes into a ton of detail of the cash crunch too.

I can't remember where but I have seen some chart with their yearly profit for every year during the 90s and it is very clear that the problems started in the mid 90s with sudden and sharp drops. In the 80s and early 90s they had very healthy economy and even rewarded designers for using pieces across themes. Then they started producing too many specific pieces and color variations.

[Roebuck]

It went downhill after -94 in my mind. Pirates got Islanders then a huge breath of fresh air, what did we get in the following years? Bigger and less interesting parts with simpler builds..
There where exceptions in other theme that was innovative and new like Western and Divers, but overall downhill

[Yperio_Bricks]

6 hours ago, Klaus-Dieter said:

But licenses are everything other than creativity but only displaying and in the best re-playing scenes from movies and games.

This is not true. Actually the opposite is true! For example, if you compare Classic Space and Star Wars, all Classic Space mocs look the same. Actually they MUST look the same because it is Classic Space! If you add a color or to many new parts the gatekeepers will hit on you. I've seen that. Or, I still remember a fantastic Ice Planet moc that was shared in this forum and people said it is not really Ice Planet because the moccer added a color. Talking about creativity eh?!

On the other hand Star Wars has hundreds of planets, space ships, thousands of characters, etc. Star Wars mocs are much more diverse and creative than anything a classic theme has to offer. Oh, and you can make up your own planets and characters, ships and animals within the Star Wars galaxy and it will be perfectly fine.

Or you can create your own Hogwarts student and let them explore the Wizarding World and have many adventures. Meanwhile, what does Majisto do? Living on peoples shelves in his GWP hut. Is that creative?

Saying licensed themes can not be creative or that other people are not creative because they like licensed themes is just so wrong on so many levels.

 

[Black Falcon]

1 hour ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

This is not true. Actually the opposite is true!

While I do agree with the first part, I can´t really agree with the second. Who says you have to take the pieces of classic Space and build another classic space set? Just build whatever you like. And if you build an classic faction with some new colours, maybe some people (most probably will not care) will say it isn´t Ice-Planet or whatever - but I doubt they will dislike the MOC just because of that.  You could also argue that most of the SW ships are grey, so you are limited in what you display also, colour-wise - but honestly, before that license came up people also used colourful bricks to build Star Wars ships - especially kids won´t care that much about that detail.

That beeing said. I don´t think there is really much difference whether something is licensed or not. In the end you can build a licensed Ship from whatever license exists in the world our of unlicensed Sets and your own madeup ship from a licensed set.

[Alexandrina]

8 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Star Wars mocs are much more diverse and creative than anything a classic theme has to offer.

I think that's swinging too far the other way, and using a subset of classic theme MOCs (those based on specific Space factions) to represent the whole. Any ten minute browse of the Castle, Pirates or Space forums will show off plenty of incredibly creative MOCs. There's even creativity to using a specific limited colour scheme - you might not have the part you want available, if it's never been made in the right colour, so you have to be creative to work with your parts limitations to make something new.

MOCs, of all themes, are creative - often moreso than official sets, of all themes, which give you a specific model to build. I can see an argument that non-licensed sets are more creative than licensed sets, from TLG's perspective only, because the designers are constrained only by their imagination, rather than the template of a licensed model. Once those bricks get into consumer hands, though? It's all equally creative! 

[Yperio_Bricks]

18 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

I think that's swinging too far the other way, and using a subset of classic theme MOCs (those based on specific Space factions) to represent the whole. Any ten minute browse of the Castle, Pirates or Space forums will show off plenty of incredibly creative MOCs.

I guess i mixed things up between unlicensed and classic.  But the majority of castle mocs, are not 'classic'! That's what i meant. I should have been more clear but i always try to keep it short. (Otherwise writing a text in English will take me too long ) I love to browse through all the fantastic castle mocs at flickr! But they do not qualify as 'classic'.

 

What i want to say is: whenever people hate on Star Wars and licensed themes in general, they often have a very narrow view of what is creative while the orthodox definition of 'classic' is not very creative in itself. Thus licensed themes are much more creative in my opinion. Of course other people view it differently

[SpacePolice89]

I believe that licensed themes require less imagination and creativity than classic themes such as Pirates and Space because all major characters are already named and the story is set if we talk about franchises such as Star Wars or Harry Potter. It is very much up to yourself to set the story and names if playing with Space or Pirates. With classic themes there is much more freedom when it comes to building and backstory because you don't have to follow someone else's rules and ideas when building or playing. This of course only applies if you build or play within the world of a particular theme, it is equally possible to use pieces from licensed and unlicensed sets to make all kinds of random fantasy builds.  

[Black Falcon]

3 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I believe that licensed themes require less imagination and creativity than classic themes such as Pirates and Space because all major characters are already named and the story is set if we talk about franchises such as Star Wars or Harry Potter. It is very much up to yourself to set the story and names if playing with Space or Pirates. With classic themes there is much more freedom when it comes to building and backstory because you don't have to follow someone else's rules and ideas when building or playing. This of course only applies if you build or play within the world of a particular theme, it is equally possible to use pieces from licensed and unlicensed sets to make all kinds of random fantasy builds.  

Is it? I mean sure, kids might sometimes play scenes from the films, but playing in a certain franchise doesn´t mean they can´t play their own, madeup adventures. And in the end, IMO making up names is probably the least creative part in play and whether they play Harry Potter and use the spells from the books/films or use Abrakadabra instead in a unlicensed world - I don´t see much difference either. In the end it will probably more depend on the kids themselves rather than if it is licensed or unlicensed. 

[Alexandrina]

24 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Is it? I mean sure, kids might sometimes play scenes from the films, but playing in a certain franchise doesn´t mean they can´t play their own, madeup adventures

This is definitely true. Back when I was in primary school, if you followed the lore of our playground Star Wars games the two coolest Jedi were Quinlan Vos and Tam Wattaduwa. One of them was basically a name and a picture in some reference book, the other entirely made up - we just used the sandbox of the world's framework for them to exist in

In fact, it's been a while since my childhood but I don't remember ever recreating scenes from my favourite books and films like-for-like. It was always using the source material as a springboard for my own original ideas

[SpacePolice89]

I completely agree that creative adults and kids can use their imagination when building and playing within a licensed theme but I still think that unlicensed themes provides more creative freedom in both building and playing and stimulates the imagination more. 

Edited October 29, 2024 by SpacePolice89

[SpacePolice89]

Instead of the Endurance ship they should've made some sort of large realistic minifigure scale ship like HMS Endeavour, HMS Victory or the real life Queen Anne's Revenge. Those ships would appeal to both fans of the Pirates theme as well as people that are interested in realistic Lego models and history.

[Captain Becker]

I disagree whit that statement. Altough I love the Idea of more Lego Pirates, and ships to sail our way, making a minifigure scale large ships like Endeavour and Victory simply isnt realistic. 
The parts count would be trough the roof, and the price whit it. And altough Endurance is in miniature scale and hence costs a fortune! (Atleast what we know so far). I think we should go the opposite round!
Go back to the roots, make simple, playsets, aimed for young audience! Just look at the Original Eldorado Fortress! Its simple, not a lot of parts. Sure its blocky and doesnt have all the detail the newer one has, but its was made to be played whit! 

AFOLs have ruined Lego, we expect bigger, better sets! And ofcourse we are ready to spend the money! But if youre a Kid, thats out of reach. Lego as a company is a Toy making company aimed mainly for Kids, whit evergrowing AFOL market. And Im not saying there shouldnt be ANY Expert AFOL lines out there. But we dont need 15000+ part HMS Lego Minifigure scale ships. 

[Yperio_Bricks]

35 minutes ago, Captain Becker said:

AFOLs have ruined Lego, we expect bigger, better sets! And ofcourse we are ready to spend the money! But if youre a Kid, thats out of reach. Lego as a company is a Toy making company aimed mainly for Kids, whit evergrowing AFOL market. And Im not saying there shouldnt be ANY Expert AFOL lines out there. But we dont need 15000+ part HMS Lego Minifigure scale ships. 

Obviously minifig scale means playscale. Nobody is asking for a 2m long HMS Victory.

[CloneCommando99]

3 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Obviously minifig scale means playscale. Nobody is asking for a 2m long HMS Victory.

Well I am now!!!! 

[SpacePolice89]

4 hours ago, Captain Becker said:

I disagree whit that statement. Altough I love the Idea of more Lego Pirates, and ships to sail our way, making a minifigure scale large ships like Endeavour and Victory simply isnt realistic. 
The parts count would be trough the roof, and the price whit it. And altough Endurance is in miniature scale and hence costs a fortune! (Atleast what we know so far). I think we should go the opposite round!
Go back to the roots, make simple, playsets, aimed for young audience! Just look at the Original Eldorado Fortress! Its simple, not a lot of parts. Sure its blocky and doesnt have all the detail the newer one has, but its was made to be played whit! 

AFOLs have ruined Lego, we expect bigger, better sets! And ofcourse we are ready to spend the money! But if youre a Kid, thats out of reach. Lego as a company is a Toy making company aimed mainly for Kids, whit evergrowing AFOL market. And Im not saying there shouldnt be ANY Expert AFOL lines out there. But we dont need 15000+ part HMS Lego Minifigure scale ships. 

I also prefer regular sets and would love to see a full wave of sets but that seems unfortunately unrealistic nowadays and therefore something like a minifigure scale HMS Victory could be the only option to get a ship or Pirates related set. I doesn't have to be huge, just big enough to fit some minifigs. The original Eldorado Fortress is one of my favorite sets.

[karrit]

I personally want play scale.  I love the old printed wall panel pieces & big ship hulls.  While the newer more detailed sets look great and I do enjoy building them, as I get older my arthritic bones can't handle long periods of placing tiny parts, tiny brick by tiny brick anymore.  Not to mention I can't spread everything out to sit on the floor and build like I used to without being in pain for days after.

[SpacePolice89]

12 minutes ago, karrit said:

I personally want play scale.  I love the old printed wall panel pieces & big ship hulls.  While the newer more detailed sets look great and I do enjoy building them, as I get older my arthritic bones can't handle long periods of placing tiny parts, tiny brick by tiny brick anymore.  Not to mention I can't spread everything out to sit on the floor and build like I used to without being in pain for days after.

If they made something similar to the original ships and fortresses today I'm certain it would sell very well. I think both kids and adults would appreciate such sets.

[Klaus-Dieter]

@Yperio_Bricks

1.: I mainly didn't wrote about MOCs / moccing but about sets you can  or can not buy. And I remember very well that when I was a teen, after having built up some Star Wars sets, I sat in front of them, replayed the scenes of the movies with them. But shortly after that I was bored. Then I took some of the (unlicensed) Western sets and had hours of creative fun with them.

2.: SW MOCs are limited in style, too. I think you wouldn't count a pink, round vehicle as a vehicle for the Imperials.

3.: Of course you can create anything out of your imagination. But as long as it's not seen in official SW movies / books / ..., it's strictly seen not Star Wars but Space.

 

But back on topic:

The Endurance is of course a nice display model (for those who have the money and place for it). But that it would be interesting for (us) Pirates fans, I would have liked to get an updated Caribbean Clipper (to go with the new Eldorado Fortress) instead. 😢

Edited November 1, 2024 by Klaus-Dieter

[eldiano]

I just wish TLG stuck to their guns with the subscription plan that let you buy classic sets as a perk. I was banking on getting more pirate sets that way. 

[SpacePolice89]

11 hours ago, eldiano said:

I just wish TLG stuck to their guns with the subscription plan that let you buy classic sets as a perk. I was banking on getting more pirate sets that way. 

Can you please explain more about the subscription plan? I've never heard about it.

[Black Falcon]

10 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Can you please explain more about the subscription plan? I've never heard about it.

They made a survey where people had several different options to vote on what Lego Insiders (one of the questions was what name it should get and  the result was obviously that) should become. Some of those question were if people would be willing to pay for a subscription (and how much they would pay for it), and what people would like to get from it. One of those options what that people could get access to buy exclusive Sets that resemble older Sets from Lego´s history.

Well I guess not many were willing to pay for something like that so Insiders replaced VIP with actually quite little changes.

[SpacePolice89]

8 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

They made a survey where people had several different options to vote on what Lego Insiders (one of the questions was what name it should get and  the result was obviously that) should become. Some of those question were if people would be willing to pay for a subscription (and how much they would pay for it), and what people would like to get from it. One of those options what that people could get access to buy exclusive Sets that resemble older Sets from Lego´s history.

Well I guess not many were willing to pay for something like that so Insiders replaced VIP with actually quite little changes.

Thanks for the information! While I like such sets I am no fan of subscriptions and try to avoid them as much as possible. I am very happy that they didn't go with a subscription model.