Future LEGO Pirates Set Speculation

[Roebuck]

4 hours ago, TheCosmicTravelers said:

I feel like kids would find ship chases/battles to be more captivating than multiple small fort and pirate hideout structures.

It is 10 years since we got the last normal Pirates wave, so Lego has probably decided that kids nowadays do not like Pirates enough. As long as we get a set every 3 years that is fine by me. Personally I have less interest in ships than other sets from the line, since they are rather similar most of them  

[Black Falcon]

9 hours ago, TheCosmicTravelers said:

The problem with Eldorado is that it is essentially in isolation (with the exception of the Creator Pirate ship and few small random one-off sets like 40597). A soldier fort is all well and good but I think sailing ships from several factions will always be more fun and a fort/port set would really work only as part of the world-building for a Pirates theme rather than as a one-off set. In my opinion, one issue with past Pirate revivals has been too much focus on random small land structures rather than on the ships themselves (I understand this is a cost issue) - I feel like kids would find ship chases/battles to be more captivating than multiple small fort and pirate hideout structures.

Well but you essentially had the same issues with all the other Revival Sets. There is no siege for the Lion Knights Castle, no opposing Ships for the Galaxy Explorer (not counting the GWP since well, it was just avaiable for a short time and you couldn´t just buy it to be able to play with both). All of them, while surely having play features are not really designed for kids but rather for adults - that doesn´t mean that kids couldn´t have their fun with them and play just as well as with other sets with them - as play features and such are an essential part of Legos design phylosophy and they also add them to their sets targeted to adults.

And maybe the Fortress would sell better if there were other Sets like Pirate and Imperial ships at the same time - but honestly, I do belive that imperial are just not that popular like Pirates for both kids and parents. And if there would be more ships to accompany the Fortress the question would be how many would actually buy the whole wave - and how many would just go with the pirate ship or maybe the pirate and the imperial one.

4 hours ago, Roebuck said:

It is 10 years since we got the last normal Pirates wave, so Lego has probably decided that kids nowadays do not like Pirates enough. As long as we get a set every 3 years that is fine by me. Personally I have less interest in ships than other sets from the line, since they are rather similar most of them  

Well it is basically the same with the other classic themes like space, castle and adventures. Yeah, Space got some Sets through city now but that will get one set and a polybag this year and then it is done IMO.

And probably Lego is right that castle and pirates aren´t that popular among kids anymore - since they would have to compete with City, Ninjago, Jurassic World, Harry Potter, Friends, Monekey Kid, Dreamzzz (though that one might be the weakest competitor amongst them - and probably I am forgetting something anyways).

That beeing said, it isn´t like those Sets wouldn´t sell - the question would rather be if they would sell well enough for Lego to be worth it over producing other Sets. Eitherway I am sure they have done their research about the popularity of those themes. However, I actually do think they might underestimate the demand that Adults have for those. Well maybe one day we will get some Playsets again and till then I am happy with getting the bigger Sets and hopefully some nice GWPs.

[Yperio_Bricks]

1 hour ago, Black Falcon said:

That beeing said, it isn´t like those Sets wouldn´t sell - the question would rather be if they would sell well enough for Lego to be worth it over producing other Sets. Eitherway I am sure they have done their research about the popularity of those themes. However, I actually do think they might underestimate the demand that Adults have for those. Well maybe one day we will get some Playsets again and till then I am happy with getting the bigger Sets and hopefully some nice GWPs.

I am sorry, but I have to come back to this every time because I really do not understand this: When it is not profitable for Lego, then why so many other companies produce castle and pirates sets? Due to the economy of scale it should be much cheaper for the Lego to produce sets en masse for a global market while the other companies sell far less copies.

Taking into acount what the previous posters said, i do think it would have been better to sell a pirate ship alongside Eldorado Fortress. Take the ship out of Barracuda Bay, maybe tweak it a little bit and sell it on its own. So there are two opposing factions to play with and have the pirates attacking the fortress. It would also look nice on display i guess. Does anybody know how many parts the BB ship has in its ship form? [EDIT: Ok, there's the creator pirate ship, but the BB one looks much better.]

[TheCosmicTravelers]

3 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

Well but you essentially had the same issues with all the other Revival Sets. There is no siege for the Lion Knights Castle, no opposing Ships for the Galaxy Explorer (not counting the GWP since well, it was just avaiable for a short time and you couldn´t just buy it to be able to play with both).

Yes but a large castle is iconic for the Castle theme as a large exploration spaceship is for Space. What is most iconic for the Pirates theme are the ships, not the fortresses.

I feel like there should be a few sizes/types of ships available: a small sloop (a la Renegade Runner), a medium (merchant?) ship, a large iconic Pirate ship, and a UCS-scale Imperial frigate. Of course, these will likely be rather expensive (both to manufacture and purchase) and may not sell well either but I imagine that well-made ship sets also appeal as display pieces in a way that many other LEGO sets do not. If the ships are there, only then will fort, port, and/or pirate hideout sets sell.

[CloneCommando99]

Ideally I’d like a UCS style Imperial Man of War. 2 Gun Decks of 5-6 cannons, minimum of 10-12 canons included. Detailed Brig. 20 Minifigs: 13 assorted crew members (some of them being in the style of actual 18th century navy sailors), Admiral, Admiral’s Daughter, chef and 4 pirates

And at the same time Lego releases an updated version of the Barracuda.

[Black Falcon]

2 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

I am sorry, but I have to come back to this every time because I really do not understand this: When it is not profitable for Lego, then why so many other companies produce castle and pirates sets? Due to the economy of scale it should be much cheaper for the Lego to produce sets en masse for a global market while the other companies sell far less copies.

Noone said it wouldn´t be profitable. And actually I do belive if it is done well both castle and pirates would do better than Lego expects, because Kids and Adults would buy them.

But I do belive that their market research showed them that kids rather want to play with Ninjago sets than Pirates or Knights and that that those themes wouldn´t sell good enough to put them on the shelves sets from other themes. That beeing said, that is merely speculation, but basically I would guess that the problem isn´t that they wouldn´t make profit with those sets, but that they make more profit producing something else.

32 minutes ago, TheCosmicTravelers said:

Yes but a large castle is iconic for the Castle theme as a large exploration spaceship is for Space. What is most iconic for the Pirates theme are the ships, not the fortresses.

Which is basically what I said ;)

32 minutes ago, TheCosmicTravelers said:

I feel like there should be a few sizes/types of ships available: a small sloop (a la Renegade Runner), a medium (merchant?) ship, a large iconic Pirate ship, and a UCS-scale Imperial frigate. Of course, these will likely be rather expensive (both to manufacture and purchase) and may not sell well either but I imagine that well-made ship sets also appeal as display pieces in a way that many other LEGO sets do not. If the ships are there, only then will fort, port, and/or pirate hideout sets sell.

Well as I said in my last post, I am not so sure about it. If the fort port and hideout are together with the ships, how many people would buy everything? And how many would rather only buy the ships, because they are cooler? After all I wouldn´t expect the ships to be cheap, especially larger ones, and how many really could and want to afford a complete wave?

[DonQuixote]

Don't expect an imperial bluecoats ship because the bluecoats are no longer available in the Bricklink Designer Program parts pallette. That means they are going out of production. 

[Black Falcon]

54 minutes ago, DonQuixote said:

Don't expect an imperial bluecoats ship because the bluecoats are no longer available in the Bricklink Designer Program parts pallette. That means they are going out of production. 

Since we are not expecting any Pirates set for next year, aside from a GWP maybe right now, that isn´t really surprising ;).

[DonQuixote]

44 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Since we are not expecting any Pirates set for next year, aside from a GWP maybe right now, that isn´t really surprising ;).

Yes it's sad. Starwars and modulars are the only things Lego really cares about. A lot of people are dreaming of a UCS style imperial warship or some sorts. But that's not gonna happen. The theme is not popular enough to make huge profits with. It will make profits as other brick companies make them but it's not enough for the Lego company. They want Starwars profits. Well Starwars fans, enjoy your overpriced €500 giant turd (Jabba's sail barge) .

It's a good day to be a Star Trek fan.... Lol. 

Edited October 13, 2024 by DonQuixote

[Yperio_Bricks]

2 hours ago, DonQuixote said:

Yes it's sad. Starwars and modulars are the only things Lego really cares about. A lot of people are dreaming of a UCS style imperial warship or some sorts. But that's not gonna happen. The theme is not popular enough to make huge profits with. It will make profits as other brick companies make them but it's not enough for the Lego company. They want Starwars profits. Well Starwars fans, enjoy your overpriced €500 giant turd (Jabba's sail barge) .

It's a good day to be a Star Trek fan.... Lol. 

I am a Star Trek fan and a Star Wars fan and do not buy UCS sets Evereything is possible

[Black Falcon]

2 hours ago, DonQuixote said:

Yes it's sad. Starwars and modulars are the only things Lego really cares about. A lot of people are dreaming of a UCS style imperial warship or some sorts. But that's not gonna happen. The theme is not popular enough to make huge profits with. It will make profits as other brick companies make them but it's not enough for the Lego company. They want Starwars profits. Well Starwars fans, enjoy your overpriced €500 giant turd (Jabba's sail barge) .

It's a good day to be a Star Trek fan.... Lol. 

Well - that´s pretty much populism. Lego is a company and as such it shouldn´t shock anyone that they want and need to make profits. And it isn´t like they only have two themes. City, Friends, Ninjago, Dreamzz, Harry Potter, Technic etc etc - and the list goes on in on. In the end everyone would love to see different kinds of Sets, but they can´t please everyone. Would I want to have Castle back as a Theme? Sure. Look how many would want to get Adventurers, Western, Lord of the Rings playsets, Bionicle - you could make an endless list with basically most older Lego themes - and then split the themes down to subthemes, because some would rather have M-Tron returning and others prefer Ice Planet. Not to mention like every IP on the world they never have done yet. I would love to get Star Gate Sets but that isn´t going to happen either. ;)

On a side note, Modulars get one Set each year, so probably that one isn´t the best example for the only things Lego cares about ;). 

[DonQuixote]

23 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

I am a Star Trek fan and a Star Wars fan and do not buy UCS sets Evereything is possible

The Force is indeed strong with you! Live long and prosper! 

7 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Well - that´s pretty much populism. Lego is a company and as such it shouldn´t shock anyone that they want and need to make profits. And it isn´t like they only have two themes. City, Friends, Ninjago, Dreamzz, Harry Potter, Technic etc etc - and the list goes on in on. In the end everyone would love to see different kinds of Sets, but they can´t please everyone. Would I want to have Castle back as a Theme? Sure. Look how many would want to get Adventurers, Western, Lord of the Rings playsets, Bionicle - you could make an endless list with basically most older Lego themes - and then split the themes down to subthemes, because some would rather have M-Tron returning and others prefer Ice Planet. Not to mention like every IP on the world they never have done yet. I would love to get Star Gate Sets but that isn´t going to happen either. ;)

On a side note, Modulars get one Set each year, so probably that one isn´t the best example for the only things Lego cares about ;). 

Yes. You're right. But it sometimes just feels it's only Starwars because the Starwars fans get so much spoiled with every year an USC set. And pirate fans almost have to beg to pay €500 on a imperial flagship. But hey, it's good for the wallet. And modulars are great too. 

[Black Falcon]

7 minutes ago, DonQuixote said:

Yes. You're right. But it sometimes just feels it's only Starwars because the Starwars fans get so much spoiled with every year an USC set. And pirate fans almost have to beg to pay €500 on a imperial flagship. But hey, it's good for the wallet. And modulars are great too. 

Yeah and still if you read the Star Wars thread they still complain about what they are getting although they really get a lot different stuff ;).

[thewatchman]

5 hours ago, DonQuixote said:

The Force is indeed strong with you! Live long and prosper! 

Yes. You're right. But it sometimes just feels it's only Starwars because the Starwars fans get so much spoiled with every year an USC set. And pirate fans almost have to beg to pay €500 on an imperial flagship. But hey, it's good for the wallet. And modulars are great too. 

Do you really wanna see your collected theme turn into what lego Star Wars did?

piles of grey boring plates on hinges, constant rereleases of sets from like 5 years ago? It’s an awful predatory business model they have with starwars fans / exclusive figs to ucs sets all designed to attack collectors, only to release those rare figs in microfighters 3 years later. 
 Can’t say in terribly surprised being licenced by house of mouse. 

[BrickPerfection]

11 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

Since we are not expecting any Pirates set for next year, aside from a GWP maybe right now, that isn´t really surprising ;).

The BrickLink Designer Program might come to the rescue! 

 

[Klaus-Dieter]

On 9/22/2024 at 2:07 PM, Mister Phes said:

Sadly this appears to be case - but let's hope they surprise us with red coats/Imperial Guards!

That's the problem with these exclusive standalone sets: You only get one (big) set - but after that, you don't get the possibility to buy add-ons (in this case: the Bluecoats got a fortress, that's nice, but we sadly don't seem to be getting a decent sized ship for them). It's bad for kids for playability. But it's also bad for AFOLs who want to create a nice and senseful layout.

So if Redcoats one day returned, I fear that it would be the same problem: There will either be a huge ship for them or a harbor, but not both. The only possibility I see ist the comeback of a whole Pirates wave. But since Lego today seems - apart from Ninjago and the city theme (City, Friends and Creator) and some very few exceptions - only wanting to release licensed themes and ignoring their own routs with unlicensed and classic themes, I sadly don't see this happening.

Edited October 14, 2024 by Klaus-Dieter

[SpacePolice89]

6 hours ago, Klaus-Dieter said:

That's the problem with these exclusive standalone sets: You only get one (big) set - but after that, you don't get the possibility to buy add-ons (in this case: the Bluecoats got a fortress, that's nice, but we sadly don't seem to be getting a decent sized ship for them). It's bad for kids for playability. But it's also bad for AFOLs who want to create a nice and senseful layout.

So if Redcoats one day returned, I fear that it would be the same problem: There will either be a huge ship for them or a harbor, but not both. The only possibility I see ist the comeback of a whole Pirates wave. But since Lego today seems - apart from Ninjago and the city theme (City, Friends and Creator) and some very few exceptions - only wanting to release licensed themes and ignoring their own routs with unlicensed and classic themes, I sadly don't see this happening.

I agree completely. Lego released 53!!!! Star Wars set in 2024, 21 Harry Potter sets and 37 Marvel sets. If they wanted to they could easily make a couple of Pirates, Space and Castle sets every year or focus on one original theme every year and release 5-6 sets for that theme and then switch to another the next year. I'm 100% certain that this would be profitable but I believe certain people within the company wouldn't let this happen. When people like Peter Eio got more influence in the company in the mid to late 90s they started to dismantle most original in house themes. Before that he was held back by some of the executives but he managed to get permission from the ownership in 1998 to pursue licensing deals and then the downfall started.

[Jack Sassy]

On 10/13/2024 at 2:15 PM, Yperio_Bricks said:

i do think it would have been better to sell a pirate ship alongside Eldorado Fortress. Take the ship out of Barracuda Bay, maybe tweak it a little bit and sell it on its own.

Aye, if they made her smaller. When displayed next to each other, one can see just how small Eldorado fortress is next to 2020's Black Seas Barracuda.

 

That said, I would not mind having a classic wave of sorts - treasure islands, smaller fortifications, even trade posts!  It feels to me that possibly LEGO ran out of ideas for Pirates (as seen by the 2015 wave), did not see much financial potential in doing the same things over again. Who knows what would have been if we saw something similar to fantasy era of Castle, but for Pirates. 

[CaptainMoore]

Based on the leaked picture of the CMF 27, we are going to get a pirate woman with a cockatoo.

[zinnn]

4 hours ago, CaptainMoore said:

Based on the leaked picture of the CMF 27, we are going to get a pirate woman with a cockatoo.

This was discussed here last month: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/8250-useful-pirate-pieces-from-other-themes/&page=28

 

But yeah, I'm super excited for the new Pirate fig :)

[DonQuixote]

On 10/15/2024 at 6:48 AM, SpacePolice89 said:

I agree completely. Lego released 53!!!! Star Wars set in 2024, 21 Harry Potter sets and 37 Marvel sets. If they wanted to they could easily make a couple of Pirates, Space and Castle sets every year or focus on one original theme every year and release 5-6 sets for that theme and then switch to another the next year. I'm 100% certain that this would be profitable but I believe certain people within the company wouldn't let this happen. When people like Peter Eio got more influence in the company in the mid to late 90s they started to dismantle most original in house themes. Before that he was held back by some of the executives but he managed to get permission from the ownership in 1998 to pursue licensing deals and then the downfall started.

That's why I am no longer a Lego purist anymore. Bluebrixx is making the sets what I want from Lego : cool western sets and pirate/imperial ships.There is also a lot of castle. I am so looking forward to the 6000piece imperial flagship that's coming out next year! It's the first time in my life that I am more hyped about a set from another brick company than a Lego set. 

[Murdoch17]

On 10/14/2024 at 11:48 PM, SpacePolice89 said:

I agree completely. Lego released 53!!!! Star Wars set in 2024, 21 Harry Potter sets and 37 Marvel sets. If they wanted to they could easily make a couple of Pirates, Space and Castle sets every year or focus on one original theme every year and release 5-6 sets for that theme and then switch to another the next year. I'm 100% certain that this would be profitable but I believe certain people within the company wouldn't let this happen. When people like Peter Eio got more influence in the company in the mid to late 90s they started to dismantle most original in house themes. Before that he was held back by some of the executives but he managed to get permission from the ownership in 1998 to pursue licensing deals and then the downfall started.

Without the licenses, LEGO would have been bought by Mattel before 2003 - LEGO first posted a loss in 1997, two years before Star wars came out and a year or so before the SW agreement was inked. According to The Secret Life of LEGO Minifigures book (among other official sources) SW and Harry Potter did help right the ship, but without Bionicle it would have been game over. Bionicle was the Ninjago of it's day - movies, videogames, collectibles, and so on. In 2003 it became a multimedia money-printing juggernaut at a time when there was no HP or SW movie to help with financing the company.

Also, Galidor was totally an inhouse theme, as was Scala, Xalax, Paradisa, Belville, Spybotics, Znap, Town Jr., City Centre, Explore, Primo, Quatro, Jack Stone, and so on - all of those in-house themes failed miserably and brought the company ever closer to the buyout Mattel was offering. (and was seriously being considered by the owners of LEGO) We're not even getting into the runaway train of one-time parts types and colors from this era, or how every time they sold a fiber optic part in a set, they lost money.

In short: The simple fact is licenses helped the company hobble along until Bionicle hit it's stride, then both licenses and Bionicle helped TLG find it's feet again.

Edited October 27, 2024 by Murdoch17

[SpacePolice89]

5 hours ago, DonQuixote said:

That's why I am no longer a Lego purist anymore. Bluebrixx is making the sets what I want from Lego : cool western sets and pirate/imperial ships.There is also a lot of castle. I am so looking forward to the 6000piece imperial flagship that's coming out next year! It's the first time in my life that I am more hyped about a set from another brick company than a Lego set. 

I prefer to complete my collection with old official sets from Bricklink and Ebay and buy the occasional new sets that I like such as the new Galaxy Explorer. I still like the Lego company but they lose a lot of sales when they only do Hollywood stuff nowadays and almost nothing for people like us that grew up with the original themes.

1 hour ago, Murdoch17 said:

Without the licenses, LEGO would have been bought by Mattel before 2003 - LEGO first posted a loss in 1997, two years before Star wars came out and a year or so before the SW agreement was inked. According to The Secret Life of LEGO Minifigures book (among other official sources) SW and Harry Potter did help right the ship, but without Bionicle it would have been game over. Bionicle was the Ninjago of it's day - movies, videogames, collectibles, and so on. In 2003 it became a multimedia money-printing juggernaut at a time when there was no HP or SW movie to help with financing the company.

Also, Galidor was totally an inhouse theme, as was Scala, Xalax, Paradisa, Belville, Spybotics, Znap, Town Jr., City Centre, Explore, Primo, Quatro, Jack Stone, and so on - all of those in-house themes failed miserably and brought the company ever closer to the buyout Mattel was offering. (and was seriously being considered by the owners of LEGO) We're not even getting into the runaway train of one-time parts types and colors from this era, or how every time they sold a fiber optic part in a set, they lost money.

In short: The simple fact is licenses helped the company hobble along until Bionicle hit it's stride, then both licenses and Bionicle helped TLG find it's feet again.

I believe it is no coincidence that they started to lose money the year after they junior-ized Town. During those years they also discontinued Pirates and made really bad Space and Castle sets. They also invested too much money in a lot of different products like clothing and computer games during those years as well as having too many specialized parts. It is sad that they had to sell their soul to Hollywood to be able to survive. They had a working and profitable concept with the original themes which they should not have messed with.

[Murdoch17]

1 hour ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I believe it is no coincidence that they started to lose money the year after they junior-ized Town. During those years they also discontinued Pirates and made really bad Space and Castle sets. They also invested too much money in a lot of different products like clothing and computer games during those years as well as having too many specialized parts. It is sad that they had to sell their soul to Hollywood to be able to survive. They had a working and profitable concept with the original themes which they should not have messed with.

They'd been bleeding money for a while, it just was 1997 that they posted a deficit in income (no longer in the black, so to speak). This just didn't happen overnight, it was a several year or more process - maybe even a decade due to mismanagement of various items, among other things. (like the theme parks)

Also, I guess you don't think Bionicle is a in-house theme. Hollywood may have helped, but Bionicle put the nail in the Mattel offer's coffin, as I said. Maybe you should look into buying the book I stated before, along with 'A Million Little Bricks', as that goes into a ton of detail of the cash crunch too.

Edited October 27, 2024 by Murdoch17

[Alexandrina]

2 hours ago, Murdoch17 said:

Also, Galidor was totally an inhouse theme, as was Scala, Xalax, Paradisa, Belville, Spybotics, Znap, Town Jr., City Centre, Explore, Primo, Quatro, Jack Stone, and so on

It seems a bit unfair to say Paradisa failed miserably, seeing as it had a perfectly solid run stretching back to Lego's golden era, and many of its sets are still looked back on rightly as classics. It doesn't belong with the others on your list at all