Is the new Castle line making old ones obsolete?

[concreteasflesh]

Ive been thinking for a while now, that i have a few new crown knights numbering in the 20s, they have quickly started to outnumber my other castle factions. what is the fate of the older castle themes?

To start the new castle line has a level of detail i think no other faction or theme can relate to; there are beautiful vibrant colors and great figure details. the armor colors are brights and have a nice shiny factor to them, when putting my new castle figs next to the older ones i sometimes become saddened. as my falcon knights and wolf raiders now seem only to be adoring a simple tunic with their respective banner. only the original Knights Kingdom (not the power ranger knights) have any sort of nice detailed body parts to stand next to the new ones. some fright knight figures seem to be able to stand up to some level of detail as well but not so much.

My view of the new castle line vs. the old ones.....

to be honest, i would any day take the new Kings Castle Siege over the 6075/375 Yellow castle...i know that MANY will dissagree with me, but to me the new castle has much much more playability and expandability then the yellow castle. Of course i Respect the Yellow Castle as being the first one, and so much depth and theme richness has come from it, but to me its so simple, the brick built horses, the all yellow when you compare it to the dragon and modular walls of the new castle, the high level of detail and lively colors. dont get me wrong i dont have a problem with the Yellow Castle but its just a thing of the past, sort of like an old statue youde look at and say, ye that was the top of the top in its day. the investment of its value would be my only want for the Yellow Castle.

So do you think that Classic Castle is being made a thing of old with the new line of Castle? Do your new Lego knights stand out strangely from your older ones? what is your thoughts on this matter? And how are your Dragon knights and Falcons, and Forestmen reacting to the invasion of the New Generation of knights?

[Paradosis]

I think classic castle will always have a special place in my heart, because those are the sets I grew up loving. I don't think newer castle sets could put a dent in my enjoyment of Black Falcon's Fortress or Black Monarch's Castle. Having said that, I understand what you're saying, and I think it may effect others. One reason for classic castle's popularity--even among those who didn't grow up with it--was that the modern crop of castle sets were unsatisfactory. But if that has changed, and the new castle lines are now able to hold their own against sets of the past, then there's less reason (for some, anyway) to go chasing after 20 year old sets on Ebay or Bricklink. I don't think things would change very quickly community-wide, but eventually "all good things must come to an end".

[tedbeard]

So do you think that Classic Castle is being made a thing of old with the new line of Castle?

Every new set in the "new" castle line just makes me pine for the classics. I buy very few at deep discounts as parts packs and yet still end up with lots of useless crap (giant bionicle axe-heads WTF!?!?). Even the best castle set in the last two years, Dwarf Mine, would not win for me in a head to head with Black Falcon's Fortress.

[brickzone]

I do think the shiny helmets being the old-style ones with neck protector do make the older non-shiny ones look more like pieces of plastic, which is a pity.

The silver and gold printing on the torso also shows up the old torsos though.

I mean, I am very nostalgic too about the old designs. But the new torso that the soldier in the "Knight" impulse set has just looks so realistic by comparison (I mean in the sense of the shadowing and printing of folds in the tunic; the actual tunic design is possibly too complex).

However, the light-blue/navy combination is the downfall of the new knights too. It's a nice coherent colour scheme, but just leaves them with a softer feel compared to the colour scheme of say the Black Knights or Black Falcons.

Using the coherency and subdued nature of the crown knights design with other colour schemes would be interesting; e.g. using brown and dark red maybe.

[Shadows]

If bley didn't kill Classic Castle, nothing can. The truth is, the current line is trying to blend some of the old with modern tastes, and I think it's doing a reasonable job of it (certainly better than anything Knights Kingdom ever did).

Give me a 6066 over anything out, but that just isn't where we're at right now. So, I'm buying some of the new sets, certainly not all of them and definitely not bulk quantities. I don't foresee the news ones outnumbering the classics in my collection, but I don't blame people who absolutely love the new stuff. They are a very welcomed change from what we were getting.

I think the bottom line is that the Castle world is big enough for everyone, old and new and those of us who don't mind having our Black Falcons kick some troll megabutts. X-D

[Athos]

I do think the new shiny armor and weapons make the classic-stuff look shabby. Beyond that, I don't see much conflict between the two, which would render classic obsolete. Though since most of my classic sets are packed up in storage, I've not had a chance to put a bunch of the different parts together for comparison.

I do have a story line for why the new stuff is different from the classic. At least in my little Lego universe...

Steve

[Mr Spielbrick]

My first LEGO set ever was from what you'd probably consider Classic Castle. It was the tree with the wizard. And since it was a cheap set, I got that one in multitude for my then birthday, ghehe.

With the Bat-Knight theme I once again bought/got some Castle sets. You can argue that the 'fantasy aspect' had already kicked in at that point. There WERE dragons, after all.

So now LEGO's doing all out 'fantasy' Castle sets. And hey, my old friend the wizard seems to be back in a cheap set! Sure, his face has changed. Sure, his clothes have a slightly different colour (still blue). Sure, his wand is different. Sure, he's got another kind of bird this time around.

But with 2007/'08, Castle is once more as attractive to me as it was when I was a youngster. It was a Castle set that brought me out of my Dark Ages for Majisto's sake! The very pretty 7090 Crossbow Attack had me fall in love again with the common 'soldiers' (now dubbed Crownies?) and the brand new evil skeleton on his fantastically designed skeletal horsey.

Now, I've always liked fantasy elements thrown into any mix. Among my favourite films at the moment are Jurassic Park, the first Pirates of the Caribbean and Disney's Robin Hood. Hm... Big monsters, skeletal evildoers and dashing but childfriendly medieval adventures. Referring back to the new Castle line, I'd say check! check! and check!

However, I still need to get used to the shiney armours and weapons. Those could've remained dark grey, if you ask me. And yeah, in general the new sets and minifigs (and dragons...) are a lot more detailed than the old ones.

Does that render the oldies obsolete?

I think you can have mostly the same adventures with the classic line. There's kings, wizards, knights and dragons. The skeletons can easily mix with the oldies. Perhaps the dwarves and trolls look a bit detailed next to ye olde minifigs, but if you don't like new Castle they're usually the actual reason why.

So I think most of the older themes and characters have been given a facelift, but I can see why people could still prefer the old sets. I guess it's everyone's personal choice. I never had much classic Castle, so I like the chances the new line gives me. If others want to keep it to the old sets, let them. It's a matter of visual taste and some nostalgia, I guess. Like with films. Some like remakes better than the original. In this case, both the original and the 'remake' (if I may be so bold as to call the new line that) have their distinctive charms. Somewhat different from each other, but both charming in their own way.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Mr Spielbrick

[Cardinal Brick]

I

Edited January 31, 2008 by Cardinal Brick

[Nebsirob]

It

[blueandwhite]

Obsolete? LEGO is NEVER obsolete! You youngsters and your crazy new age nonsens :-D .

In all seriousness, I've never seen a major difference between the old and new knights. For me, the new Crown Knights work extremely well with older factions like the BF, Lion Knights (the REAL Lion Knights that is) and the Black Knights. they have a faction design that doesn't really seem that different. Sure, the torso prints are a bit more complex, but that hardly makes the figures seem out of place. Heck, while the torsos themselves are more complex, the heraldry of the older factions is every bit as detailed (or perhaps moreso). In some cases, the old designs are actually preferable. for me, I favour the blank breastplates over the printed ones that we have for the new Castle line as they can be used with any faction and actually look more believable (thank goodness the impulse knight has not printing on his).

I appreciate the newer figs for having heraldry that looks reasonably authentic, much like the earlier classic castle lines (The Royal Knights and beyond moved to heraldry that was too cartoonish for my liking). Beyond that, I still prefer the set design of older classics like the BFF to the newer line. When BFF was re-released as a legend, I snapped up ten of them for parts alone; something that no recent castle set could motivate me to do. The new figures are quite nice, but I sometimes wonder if young fans actually like LEGO for anything beyond the figures themselves. For me, a major selling point of any LEGO set was the playability. A good set is one that offers a great mixture of bricks; ready for endless MOCing. This is something that most of the great classics always had. Some of the new Castle line's top sets feature similar possibilities, however I feel that this is one area in which the new line has taken a couple of steps back this year.

[General Zen]

The old sets bring a sense of nostalgia to me, and remeber that maybe in the distant future the sets we are recieving now will become obsolete.

Just think, two old fans of lego will be talking and one will turn to the other and say " Remember the dwarves mine set? Back in the day, we had minifigures with printed torsos and heads, and that was it. Now we get blasted stickers!"

(That is my prediction, though I hope it never comes true! ;-) )

[snefroe]

wow! that is really a great question! *sweet* for me, classic castle will never be obsolete in it's intentions. it was a heroic fight between bad soldiers and good ones, or robin hood against Prince John mixed with some classic medieval elements like a tavern, a blacksmith... The naivety, what the theme stood for, the optimism (don't really know how to call it) will never be obsolete.

ofcourse, like the space theme, the parts itself have often been replaced by parts that are waaaaay better. We have brown colours now and far more different parts to build great castle mocs. in that way classic castle just as classic space , have been surpassed, but the spirit of both themes is very much alive in the hearts of the older fans who used to grow up with the older themes...

[Batbrick]

ofcourse, like the space theme, the parts itself have often been replaced by parts that are waaaaay better. We have brown colours now and far more different parts to build great castle mocs. in that way classic castle just as classic space , have been surpassed, but the spirit of both themes is very much alive in the hearts of the older fans who used to grow up with the older themes...

I think snefroe has said it best here, the spirit and atmosphere that these classic sets generate keep them from ever becoming obsolete. Surpassed in design? Yes. Surpassed in quality? Most certainly. But in spirit, originality or memory? Not in a million years.

Batbrick Away! >:-)

[blueandwhite]

I think snefroe has said it best here, the spirit and atmosphere that these classic sets generate keep them from ever becoming obsolete. Surpassed in design? Yes. Surpassed in quality? Most certainly. But in spirit, originality or memory? Not in a million years.

Batbrick Away! >:-)

Not everyone feels that way. What you see and I see as being superior design are clearly two very different things. These sorts of things are largely subjective.

[Batbrick]

Not everyone feels that way. What you see and I see as being superior design are clearly two very different things. These sorts of things are largely subjective.

I was not referring to JUST the new castle line, I was referring to all castle lines ;-)

Batbrick Away! >:-)

[gylman]

The direct answer to your question: "Is the new Castle line making old ones obsolete?"

Is that the old ones ARE OBSOLETE ALREADY!.

They are not made anymore!

No more dragon knights, crusaders, or forestmen will ever be born!

Real gray is dead!

So the question makes no sense. Old castle is already long obsolete.

You probably meant: "will the availability of a new and not-utterly-useless castle line make us pine less for the old days and look more to the future"?

The answer, of course, is YES. While I am not crazy about the new castle line, and I am not planning to buy much of it, I am an old fart that can't use bley, and I do not represent the typical LEGO buyer and builder of today (luckily for TLC).

Obviously the new figs and accessories with the new castle line will open up great new opportunities for building and play for many people, and therefore the old lines will see less attention. It is inevitable. And good.

[salty tbone]

As others have said, nostalgia for me means that classic castle will never be obsolete. The crownies' shiny duds just reflect their wealth in my fantasy world (they do have a gold mine, after all :-) ) That wealth has made them the target of most all the other factions (my yellow castle serves as the original "crownie" keep in my kingdom).

[Hewman]

Well like many others I'm totally impressed with most of the new castle sets. I don't think they'll usurp the classic castle sets of the 80s but I'm sure comtemplating whether I need to keep all those KK2 figs and sets I have, when I could use the money for the upcoming castle sets.

[voltio]

I don't think that high-quality Castle sets of the late 70's, 80's, and early '90s can ever be called obsolete. I love the new Crown Knights, but there will always be a place in my heart for the sets I grew up with (Dragon Masters! *wub* ). What may suffer in popularity are the less popular Castle sets like KK1, KK2, and Fright Knights. To make room for Castle 2007, I sold my 6091 King Leo's Castle; it just could not compare in terms of minifigure selection, parts count, or realism.

[iamded]

Well, I love the new Castle line, that's for sure. The best thing Lego's hit me with in a long time. I mean, I've previously gathered all my floppy armed skeletons and made a small army, doubtfully wishing TLC would someday make some way to mass skeletons. Then I see this, with what I originally wanted but never thought would be made, Knights versus skeleton armies! :-D *wub* The '07 Castle line was wonderful to me. And '08 is equally as awesome, trolls with crazy war machines, Dwarves, giant ogres... *wub*

Then I browse through Brickset and look at all the awesome oldies, like the simple, awesome catapult, siege tower, castle, other castle... *wub* *wub* *wub*

So, to answer your question. Em. Well, The old sets look awesome, but I'll never have a chance of getting my hands on them, and I love what I can get, the new Castle line. *wub*

~Peace

[Batbrick]

'snip'*wub* 'snip'*wub*'snip'*wub* *wub* *wub* 'snip'*wub*

~Peace

Wait a second, do you like the castle line or not? X-D

That said i agree with you, while some castle fans don't like the fantasy elements in the new theme, I'va always wanted a skellie army *wub*

Batbrick Something! >:-)

[Norro]

Does that answer your question? ;-)

This is the main reason I'm not completely anti-orc and the first thing I thought when I saw the leaked pics...

Only the bleys affect lego's backwards compatibility, changing styles just broaden the range of what can be built...

God Bless,

Nathan

[brickbitz]

I think personally there are great elements to both. I'm certainly glad the new Castle weapons and accessories are based on the original Castle elements but with the new shiny metallic finish.

The KK2 stuff was a bit rubbish and probably best forgotten.

Overall if the aim is make great MOC's, then the original castle lines and new castle lines can be combined to great effect. However I still prefer the original LEGO dragon figure rather than the more realistic recent dragons. Perhaps because they seem more like a general toy rather than LEGO.

Got no problems with the great Trolls though...

[Chuck]

For those of you Anti-Bley Castle people, I ask you one thing: Have you ever seen two stones that are completely the same, or for that matter, a castle in which all the stone matches up color-wise? Didn't think so ;-) That said, wouldn't bley just make a castle more realistic?

-Chuck

[blueandwhite]

For those of you Anti-Bley Castle people, I ask you one thing: Have you ever seen two stones that are completely the same, or for that matter, a castle in which all the stone matches up color-wise? Didn't think so ;-) That said, wouldn't bley just make a castle more realistic?

-Chuck

I guess this depends on your reasoning for disliking the colour change. For me it wasn't a matter of realism. I simply don't like the way the new colour mixes with the older bricks. LEGO, no matter how you cut it is still a toy. There are some excellent builders (many whom are far better than I could ever aspire to be) who synthesize both bley and grey into their MOCs. That being said, I still don't like the mixture of old and new colours. It's just a personal preference.