Is the new Castle line making old ones obsolete?

[Norro]

For those of you Anti-Bley Castle people, I ask you one thing: Have you ever seen two stones that are completely the same, or for that matter, a castle in which all the stone matches up color-wise? Didn't think so ;-) That said, wouldn't bley just make a castle more realistic?

Have you ever seen a castle? In america... ;-) X-D

Since stones do embody a plethora of colour variants I have often said I would have welcomed bley if it complimented the amount of grey variants I have to work from. In my opinion it doesn't. It makes the old greys look strange in comparison and it itself looks far too metallic to represent natural rock or weather worn stone.

The castles I look at for models are generally weather worn due to their age, few of them inspire me as gleaming bley edifices... the similarities of wear also make the stones appearance far more homogenous than you might think...

God Bless,

Nathan

[TheFrisian]

ofcourse, like the space theme, the parts itself have often been replaced by parts that are waaaaay better. We have brown colours now and far more different parts to build great castle mocs. in that way classic castle just as classic space, have been surpassed, but the spirit of both themes is very much alive in the hearts of the older fans who used to grow up with the older themes...

Great topic! I think Snefroe describes very well how I feel about the matter. With new colors, new parts, new prints and innovative designs, the new Castle line surpasses previous Castle lines in almost every way. Yet, I don't know if i'm just being nostalgic here, but I can't help still feeling a soft spot for the great Castle themes of the late 80s and early 90s. Compared to present day standards those themes seem rather primitive and simplistic, but they more than make up for it in spirit and charm :'-)

[Norro]

the new Castle line surpasses previous Castle lines in almost every way.

Not to be quarrelsome, but I'd be interested in what lead you to this conclusion... piece count, fig detail, generosity of sets, central concept?

Thanks and God Bless,

Nathan

Who has to admit Lego is the real winner when we're discussing the classic sets being parred again, it almost makes a few years back look like an isolated nightmare...

[TheFrisian]

Not to be quarrelsome, but I'd be interested in what lead you to this conclusion... piece count, fig detail, generosity of sets, central concept?

Thanks and God Bless,

Nathan

Who has to admit Lego is the real winner when we're discussing the classic sets being parred again, it almost makes a few years back look like an isolated nightmare...

First of all, I mentioned colors. The new Castle line brings us a very nice varied and colorful palette, among which various shades of blue and brown. Yet these colors are not as overly bright as the primary colors used in the 80s and 90s, which adds a touch of realism for me. And lets not forget the metallic armour, helmets and weaponry, which in my opinion also look much more realistic than the old grey and black ones.

The prints have also come a long way since then, the designs are very detailed and of great quality. Though, I do have to admit that some of the torsos would be better off if they were less faction specific, since they would make great torsos for other factions (the archers scale mail comes to mind).

I think set design has also greatly improved over time. In part because new parts became available, but also because designers seem to experiment with different building techniques more nowadays. I doubt they would've come up with sets like the Troll Battle Wheel back then, even if the parts had been available. And it is exactly this originality and innovation that I find so refreshing in the current designs.

Hence my conclusion that the current Castle line surpasses previous ones at least in terms of aesthetics. Though this is ofcourse just my personal opinion, and I'm the first to admit that the Castle themes from the 80's and early 90s definitely had their own charm and appeal ;-)

[blueandwhite]

Hence my conclusion that the current Castle line surpasses previous ones at least in terms of aesthetics. Though this is ofcourse just my personal opinion, and I'm the first to admit that the Castle themes from the 80's and early 90s definitely had their own charm and appeal ;-)

I guess that's where I feel differently. While the new sets undoubtedly have a greater number of pieces and colours to choose from, I've always appreciated the clean designs of the castle sets of the 80s and early 90s. The best of those sets were incredible. I look at 6085 and 6080 so fondly because they are asthetically so pleasing. They may not have the fancy torso prints or new colours of the current castle line, but they are beautiful. I miss castles that have a proper gatehouse and clearly formed towers on each corner just as I miss the brick built portculis and modular building design which allowed for seemless expansion.

I'm not saying that the new castle isn't a nice looking structure in its own way. I simply feel that when people say that this new line is flat out better that they don't necessarily understand why some of us old timers have such a fondness for the older designs. I respect your opinions and I definitely agree that some of the newer elements that have been introduced to the castle line are positively wonderful (I have re-equipped my lion knights with shinny new silver helms). At the same time I can't help but miss the compact well-designed castle structures of my childhood. What made the 80s/early 90s line so popular (and still popular amongst us geezers :-D ) goes beyond the simple nostalgia.

[wulf]

I think they have made them some what obsolete( but I'll always love the old ones: )!

[fenrir]

Well, I do like the new castle sets.

although I never owned a big castle set from the 80's of 90's, I like them more.

The older sets are way more realistic, and I realy like that.

I don't mind if they come up with a more solid, less open and more realistic castle again.

[SlyOwl]

New ones win any day for me, a heavy MOCer.

-The soldiers are more uniform - you get a nice army easily, without having to worry about all the different torsos that so jumbled up older factions.

-Faces. I like to give them personalities and have "action" faces for what they are doing. Smileys just don't cut it.

-They look better (silver e.t.c...)

-People-on-people fights get boring after a while. Giant trolls e.t.c. add variation

-I like using bley. It's a nice colour and it adds variation. However, I don't like light bley, as I can't tell the difference from old light grey.

-The new war machines are much more fun!

-More fantasy factions = good

-More browns and tans; better colours for MOCing

-I don't play with sets and rarely use BURPs, 1x(X)x5 bricks or panel walls, so the older stuff isn't that useful, and therefore expensive for what you get.

Edited June 8, 2008 by SlyOwl

[Wilhelm screamer]

New ones win any day for me, a heavy MOCer.

-The soldiers are more uniform - you get a nice army easily, without having to worry about all the different torsos that so jumbled up older factions.

-Faces. I like to give them personalities and have "action" faces for what they are doing. Smileys just don't cut it.

-They look better (silver e.t.c...)

-People-on-people fights get boring after a while. Giant trolls e.t.c. add variation

-I like using bley. It's a nice colour and it adds variation. However, I don't like light bley, as I can't tell the difference from old light grey.

-The new war machines are much more fun!

-More fantasy factions = good

-More browns and tans; better colours for MOCing

-I don't play with sets and rarely use BURPs, 1x(X)x5 bricks or panel walls, so the older stuff isn't that useful, and therefore expensive for what you get.

All 100% correct.

[Nikola Bathory]

I disgree. I prefer the older sets, they are classic! The Forestmen. the Wolfpack and all the other older fractions are great!

I only agree about what you said about the faces.

[KurttKrueger]

I grew up with the Black Falcons, Lion Knights, Forestmen, Black Knights, Royal Knights and Dragon Knights. I love every single one of these factions, as I had hours of fun massing armies of them and staging mass battles. Then came the dark times, Fright Knights, Knight's Kingdom and Ninjas (imo). During this dark period in Castle history, I was passing my driving test, and discovering girls and beer :D

Imagine my suprise and delight when I discovered last years Castle line! Finally, castle sets that echo the awesome sets of the 80's and 90's. I honestly feel that the King's Castle Siege 7094 is one of the best Castles that Lego have produced in a long while, and I even make that comparison against Black Falcon's Fortress.

For me, the new Crown Knights, Skellies and Trolls capture the true spirit of what Castle was all about. Only this time, we have clearly marked factions, and theres no doubting who's good and who's evil.

As for compatability and older sets being obsolete, I don't really think its possible for this theme. My Forestmen sets sit proudly next to my Fantasy Era stuff, and I'm in the process of 'updating' my Forestmen sets (blacks for browns, a few minifig changes etc) so they all mesh together well.

I have very high hopes for the rest of this line, and look foward to getting my hands on as much of it as possible!

[Fluyt]

-The soldiers are more uniform - you get a nice army easily, without having to worry about all the different torsos that so jumbled up older factions.

-I don't play with sets and rarely use BURPs, 1x(X)x5 bricks or panel walls, so the older stuff isn't that useful, and therefore expensive for what you get.

Isn't that what the new ones are like? I mean, crownies have 3 different torso's, with crown logo(If you don't count the armor/plain torso combo), while older factions only had 1 faction specific torso (dragon masters changed that I think, but they still have only 3, just like new castle). And new castle also has a fair amount of panel walls and burps and has a lot more "specific pieces" and less normal bricks. I do agree on your other points.

Classic castle is definately not obsolete, but I do like the new ones for their detail and that it is so different with the fantasy aspect and all.

But why is a black falcon is cheaper than an orc on BL nowadays? It doesn't make sense

[Dwarvenlord]

Wtf! That's absurd! How much are they then? Srry for oftopic

[Fluyt]

Wtf! That's absurd! How much are they then? Srry for oftopic

It's almost 3,5$ minimum for the orcs (or trolls, whatever they're called), I think dwarfs are just as bad for your wallet, or even worse. And then we're not even talking about those big ugly trolls, at around 10$. Luckily the crownies aren't at these crazy prices yet.

You can get black falcons (also other classic factions I think) for under 3$.

To steer it back ontopic, or try to :Old castle is definately also not obsolete when you want an army, looking at these prices. But then again, dwarfs and orcs are a special faction, not like the dozen or so of human factions.

[Tacitus]

I'm not entirely sure that a LEGO line can become obsolete now, since, by definition, the classic line became obsolete when production of that line was discontinued years ago. And, when the classic line truly ended is a matter of opinion (Dragons? Fright Knights?). Old LEGO doesn't really fall into disuse, either. So, I'm not sure that obsolescence is the right question.

Most of the responses here have been more about which line is better or more desirable, the old or the new, and that's something that probably should go on a case by case basis. For example, I think that the old 6066 is one of the best, and really makes the Dwarf Mine look silly. But the Skull Tower is much better design than either the Wolfpack Tower or the Dragon's Den (two of my favorite "classics," nonetheless).

[Tom_castlefan]

In my legoverse, the crown knights are a relatively new group established by the king who leads the lion crusaders. Basicallym they are an expansion to the army, whilst being inferior to the lion knights, yet still used to support the kings forces. Therefore, I do not see the old factions becoming obsolete, but instead see the news ones as adding more flavor my existing storyline and collection.

[cdljal]

The new fantacy age brought me out of a second mini dark age. At the time I had King Leo, His Knight from the joust set, and the Black Monarchs Ghost Knight. In my Lego KIngdom the knights were the kings leaders and each had 4 soldiers under them, Leos Knight 4 KK1 troops, and the BMG knight had 4 classic soldiers I think crusaders under him. Of course there was a ninga leader and the Fright Knights and a few Bulls with a couple of Black Falcons to fight them.

Then I saw the new castle sets and picked up the joust, catapult, and crossbow sets and had a new Knight and unit of troops for Leo.

Well since then thanks to ebay and a new interest all ranks have swelled A couple of new kings with vassles and knights and entered the kingdom that now has roving trolls and such,

Its Lego after all the only limit is you imagination and supply of bricks and people. I have a few of several factions the largest each between 6 and 18 troops so the loyaties of the factions change depending on their aka my mood at the time.

Oh and the new crowies look good with the Black falcons crusaders and classics.

[Steel Dragon]

My first LEGO set ever was from what you'd probably consider Classic Castle. It was the tree with the wizard. And since it was a cheap set, I got that one in multitude for my then birthday, ghehe.

Oh my goodness gracious, I had that set! I've since msplaced the hat ( ), but it sticks in my mind as the iconic Classic Castle.

I personally think Classic and Modern castle figures blend beautifully together, so no, I don't think Classic Castle has been obsolesced at all.

[supertoad64]

I have more of the recent Castle figs then any of the other castle lines. I have been collecting the older torsos to build up other factions, though, as I love the look and diversity of the classic torsos and for me, the factions are more based around color then the specifics of the designs.

I don't think the new faces mesh well with the old ones. Now the faces all have detailed expressions, white dots in the eyes, and lots of stylized facial hair and or eyebrows. A lot of what was simply a single color in the past is now outlined in black and shaded as well to make the design more vibrant. To me, that creates quite a noticeable difference between new and old. I used to use the more expressive (newer) faces for more important characters in my own Lego universe, but now I seem to just use the old faces to hold the headpieces on until I find a newer head that I like (especially since Lego seems to be releasing so many new heads lately).

Though I really like the detail of the new figs, I wish that they would blend together with the older ones with more subtlety.

Edited January 13, 2010 by supertoad64

[Smidy101]

New components and weapons can always be added to older designs to enhance the look. However the horse hasn't change its shape for over twenty years, so I guess they got something right. My favourite knights helmet is from the 1990's (french visor design). I still like the dark grey design. Don't get me wrong the shine armour and helmets are great, but they added to an already existing collection of quality helmets and gear to select from.

In my opion the lions and the falcons are still the best looking armies. I like the 2007 crownies but from a distance I think the simplier design of the 84 knights look better. Sometimes less detail is better.

The new 2010 knights are looking really good and these are easily the best knights they have made for a long long time.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Smidy101

[Big Cam]

I am hardpressed to call the older castle sets obsolete.

If anything LEGO is just expanding the availablilty of parts and new parts.

THe great thing about LEGO is it all works together, the name has changed but it's still the same them.

[Grand Poobah]

This may sound like blasphemy, but I never actually was a fan of LEGO sets in the conventional sense.

I LOVE legos, no doubt, but I always found the Castle sets themselves were rather flimsy and not realistic. To this end, I would build the LEGO set, I'd leave it up for a few months, and then I'd tear it down and build something entirely new.

I am a HUGE fan of MOCs, because the standard set just doesn't cut for what I want to portray.

When I get my LEGOs out again, my goal is to make massive LEGO Pirate/Castle MOCs. I'll do most of it by ordering many new bricks straight off LEGO's website.

[The Green Brick Giant]

I mix them all together, or just use the newer guys. What I normally do is use the older guys that match and the ones that don't I take the new armor off the guys and just cover the older torsos.