This is the end ... of Exo-Force

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

Oh well. All good things must come to an end... :'-(

I remember the happy days of 2006... :'-)

-ZotS

[Zarkan]

They all did...even the 08 line has their bottoms exposed for absolutely no good reason At least they're leagues better than the previous mecha

When I said only Uplink had an open cockpit, I mean that it was TOTALLY unarmored around the cockpit area. Most of the human mechs had at least a canopy over them. In my opinion, the unarmored backs were a totally unrelated issue, but I agree that they were annoying. I agree also that 2008's mechs are much better: I think the big square cockpit design helped with the looks a lot. ;-)

Woah, Yoda, that's a BIG minifigure collection! 8-

[Bionic-Sun]

Woah, Yoda, that's a BIG minifigure collection! 8-

[BrotherDog]

i don't think agents or any other theme in 2008 is a replacement for the EF line. The decision to get rid of EF seems fairly recent, no time to create something new. And right now there's no open slot in the catalog. At best there's some available space in the second half of 2008, but for the moment EF is here readily available.

I'm also surprised by the drastic aspect of the decision. Dumping a line completely... wow... sales must have totaly collapsed, no other explenation... I wonder how that will effect the books for 2007.

Odd. On the rare occasion they actually show-up on shelves in this area, they sell out that day. The only Exo-sets that didn't/don't are those really expensive humongo-sets. I really believe those are what killed the theme, along with no change in characters.

Edited February 11, 2008 by BrotherDog

[Visorak-kal]

To tell the truth, this does not come as a big surprise to me. Exo-Force from the beginning I always saw as a three-year line. The surprise I have is that they are not giving it an ending and there will be (apparently) no summer sets.

Exo-Force was a good line while it lasted, though I agree that 2006 in terms of both sets and story was much more thought out than 2007. 2008 looks good, shame it is the last year. Just look at Striking Venom and compare it to the Combat Crawler. The first is far better than the second. I think that what others have said about Exo-Force failing to change directions fast enough is true.

Look at BIONICLE; sales dropped when they used the same set/story tactics for 2001-2003. But since BIONICLE was popular enough, it survived until they were able to change directions and improve the line in 2004. Exo-Force just wasn't popular enough to survive the repetition. And the code bricks could in no way replace the light-up feature.

Like Knight's Kingdom (another 3-year-line) Exo-Force died of repetition. Let us hope that Castle does not suffer the same fate!

VK

[Brainbox]

The surprise I have is that they are not giving it an ending and there will be (apparently) no summer sets.

I guess 'no summer sets' is a reasonable decision. If the lines being cancelled, presumably due to it not selling, then why draw it out with more sets that aren't selling? It'll be interesting to see how the end is dealt with in the comics though, see whether we get a proper end or not.

Like Knight's Kingdom (another 3-year-line) Exo-Force died of repetition. Let us hope that Castle does not suffer the same fate!

I shouldn't think it will. If one of the problems is repetition, then this years Castle is different enough to not be accused of that.

I'm not sure if repetition is the main problem though. Sure, the basic storyline was the same all three years, but the setting changed and the designs changed. Having a basic storyline that's the same is no different from the 'Good vs. Bad' storyline every year in Bionicle, or the 'build a viable City' idea in City.

[natelite]

Do you have any source to back that nonsense up, or are you just typing in rage?

LEGO has clearly made some mistakes with Exo Force, but don't go tossing the blame around in blindness.

The names make good sense. "Sentai" is used in the military to mean something like "regiment" and Takeshi is a common surname in Japan.

chill dude! it's a fact that TLC uses the target group (boys age 7-14) for any of their sets. just check out some of the designers' blogs. they have to redesign sets if the kids from the focus group couldn't put it together by themselves. designs are made in denmark (read the blog again - even if hired in the US, the designers will move to denmark and are based in denmark). so, unless you want to tell me they fly kids from the US to denmark to test their sets...then I would believe you they are not danish kids. ;-)

takeshi is a first name. not a surname. it is a very popular first name though. perhaps you have seen it many times and mistook it as a surname.

[gizhou]

I'd like forum members' opinion on this: EF mechs really don't look like Japanese mechs they take their inspiration from. If Lego really copied Japanese style mecha as well as they do Star Wars models, instead of trying to "westernize" the mechs, do you think we would see a better response?

If they aimed EF at an older age group and more complicated builds, would we see more sets sold?

BTW, I would be curious what the sales of EF are in Asia?

it's a fact that TLC uses the target group (boys age 7-14) for any of their sets. just check out some of the designers' blogs. they have to redesign sets if the kids from the focus group couldn't put it together by themselves. designs are made in denmark (read the blog again - even if hired in the US, the designers will move to denmark and are based in denmark).

Hey, do you have links to the blogs?

Edited February 12, 2008 by gizhou

[hollisbrick]

Like Knight's Kingdom (another 3-year-line) Exo-Force died of repetition. Let us hope that Castle does not suffer the same fate!

VK

I doubt it, you see castle is a core theme like city and space and it would be very very very unlikely if it stopped, it's like stopping city.

[xwingyoda]

I'd like forum members' opinion on this: EF mechs really don't look like Japanese mechs they take their inspiration from. If Lego really copied Japanese style mecha as well as they do Star Wars models, instead of trying to "westernize" the mechs, do you think we would see a better response?

Interesting ;-)

Well hard to say but Mecha based on the Gundam style would have rocked big time thats for sure but we could argue the opposite that they were too japanese based !!

We also could argue that they should have been more western based like Transformers but the asian signs and MFs owuld have looked weird.

I think that one of the flaw of that line is that TLC tried too much to stay between western and eastern cultures in the same time. Compromises are not always good !!

*yoda*

[hollisbrick]

i've been thinking and part of me thinks no news is good news this sucks I was just getting into the theme >:-( but then aprt of me thinks that it's good that there telling us now so were not like OMG!!!!!where'd EF go 8-

[natelite]

Hey, do you have links to the blogs?

http://sideshowjamie.livejournal.com

he's the designer of the 4953 fast flyer and he also worked on cafe corner. Actually I was slightly mistaken, they do test on UK kids as well. :-P it was mentioned in his blog. read the mar 29, 2006 blog. there's more further down...so it really depends on how much patience you have reading other's diaries.

there's also more details in the brickjournal magazines. unfortunately those aren't free anymore. :-/

[shunlabs]

Well to me this is terribly bad news. Yeah sure EF could have been a lot better than it was, but in the end it's a pity to lose a fresh theme, a completely new universe different from the usual way of considering themes. Agents will be a ton less innovative, with the usual lot of action/spy material.

I read people complain about repetitive sets ... what would they say about the unavoidable fire stations, police HQ and the like ? Come to think of it, isn't that a bit of the same thing, evoluting years after years ?

What I really find difficult to understand, are satisfied reactions of people basically saying "hey you the theme I don't like, get out so that my fav theme can sell more".

Despite sales figures were not up to expectations, there were people who actually liked these sets.

They were also useful parts-wise and brought their fair amount of share of new minifigs.

EF was a try to make things differently than the usual trilogy past (castle) / present (city) / future (space) and I am greeting LEGO for it.

I'd like forum members' opinion on this: EF mechs really don't look like Japanese mechs they take their inspiration from. If Lego really copied Japanese style mecha as well as they do Star Wars models, instead of trying to "westernize" the mechs, do you think we would see a better response?

If they aimed EF at an older age group and more complicated builds, would we see more sets sold?

BTW, I would be curious what the sales of EF are in Asia?

I will bring some (limited) information on the discussion on how popular EF was in Asia through the link to a music video below.

Not many Lego sets had the privilege to be featured in official music videos, right ?

Then check this one out and tell me what you see around 3:11

Fit Song by Cornelius [music video]

Alright, this one is rather conceptual ;-) Artist is Cornelius, aka Keigo Oyamada from Japan.

No gundams or else, just a Grand Titan (7701) *y*

Now that's a tribute to EF !! *wub*

Edited February 12, 2008 by shunlabs

[xwingyoda]

Well to me this is terribly bad news. Yeah sure EF could have been a lot better than it was, I read people complain about repetitive sets ... what would they say about the unavoidable fire stations, police HQ and the like ? Come to think of it, isn't that a bit of the same thing, evoluting years after years ?

I keep complaining about that :-D I doin't want my city to be a fascist state where there are more policemen that actual inhabitants |-/

Still glad to have that new Coast Guard theme for novelty !!

What I really find difficult to understand, are satisfied reactions of people basically saying "hey you the theme I don't like, get out so that my fav theme can sell more".

Well I always said and will keep maintening that forever that as long TLC gains money I'm happy !! Sure I was not a huge EF fan but if that lines sells well I'm happy.

Despite sales figures were not up to expectations, there were people who actually liked these sets.

They were also useful parts-wise and brought their fair amount of share of new minifigs.

I just ordered a few of the new sets for parts !! They always have great part effectively !!

*yoda*

[natelite]

well, i don't think "westernization" is the problem here. mechwarriors/battletech has the same cult following if not greater than gundam or macross. the problem is TLC has to come up with its own special design or risk intellectual rights lawsuit and unfortunately it tanked.

i would attribute the failure to TLC's mech design. it's terrible. it's neither here nor there. they tried coming up with themes and even those suck. i think they need to make the themes coherent. jungle mech warfare is doable but not with those crazy pointy bricks. i mean even SW has a better coherent theme. there's hoth and hoth gears/mechs, there's endor/ewoks for jungle warfare, tatooine for desert, etc.

the mechs have to be believable. they have to be designed to work in those settings instead of like a mish-mash of parts. there's actually a lot of possibilities with this line if only they had done it right.

there's the desert settings - highly visible, little to no protection cover - which will require the mechs to have better camo, stealth design (not heavier armor), long range capabilities, horizontally designed (rather than big and tall mechs), tunneling (digging) abilities, etc.

the jungle theme - low visibility, heavy cover, lots of defense, poor range - which provides better camo but most mechs will be in shades of green, more melee attacks (range is terrible), slicker design (taller and slimmer to blend into the forest), heavier armor, etc.

the urban theme (city) - which emphasise on heavier armor, blockier (to look like buildings), sniping attacks, emphasis on speed (for moving from one cover to the next), silent and armor piercing attacks.

so far they have done bridge theme, golden city (dunno what's that) and the jungle theme. none of the mechs have a coherent design. the titan is always large and unwieldy. the hunter is always fast and speedy. the hayato mech is always a support mech and the ryo mech is always a medic.

i'm hoping they take the lesson learnt and maybe apply better in the agents theme. there's always the possibility of exo suits and mechs for the agents!

[M'Kyuun]

I'd like forum members' opinion on this: EF mechs really don't look like Japanese mechs they take their inspiration from. If Lego really copied Japanese style mecha as well as they do Star Wars models, instead of trying to "westernize" the mechs, do you think we would see a better response?

If they aimed EF at an older age group and more complicated builds, would we see more sets sold?

BTW, I would be curious what the sales of EF are in Asia?

Hey, do you have links to the blogs?

I think EF would have fared much better if, as I mentioned in an earlier post, they had used a more authentic Japanese style for the mechs, or went as far as hiring/contracting one of the many reknowned Japanese mecha designers. They would have been more expensive, but I think the end product would have been much more appealing, and sold better.

Although I'm unsure of the popularity of Japanese mecha in Europe, in the US the popularity of anime and anime inspired products continues to increase, evidenced by the growing number of anime sections in book and movie stores, tv programs, toys, and internet sites . So, yes, I think the EF line would have done far better had the sets a more complex anime look and build. On this note, I think many more adults buy toys for themselves than ever before in history. It's become somewhat acceptable, as even the many Conventions and Toyfairs are more for adults than kids these days. And I think toy companies would definitely prosper by realizing this shift in the consumer demographic.

[Lasse D]

chill dude! it's a fact that TLC uses the target group (boys age 7-14) for any of their sets. just check out some of the designers' blogs. they have to redesign sets if the kids from the focus group couldn't put it together by themselves. designs are made in denmark (read the blog again - even if hired in the US, the designers will move to denmark and are based in denmark). so, unless you want to tell me they fly kids from the US to denmark to test their sets...then I would believe you they are not danish kids. ;-)

takeshi is a first name. not a surname. it is a very popular first name though. perhaps you have seen it many times and mistook it as a surname.

It doesn't seem like a good practice to sell products globally for which there have only been made a Danish marked analysis. I have only seen these screenings in Denmark, but it doesn't mean that this is the only place it is done.

That said, this was not the point. The point is that Exo Force was not made because of some "Danish kids who don't play with LEGO" suggested it. I read the sentence and figured how an American might have said it, which is why I was so harsh in my remark. I'm sorry if that has offended you.

I also sorry for my factual error. Takeshi is a given name and not a surname. I made the mistake because the names are pronounced in opposite order in Japan, but this does of course not change their types.

Wow. I'm suddenly not so sad about the demise of Exo Force...

[M'Kyuun]

well, i don't think "westernization" is the problem here. mechwarriors/battletech has the same cult following if not greater than gundam or macross. the problem is TLC has to come up with its own special design or risk intellectual rights lawsuit and unfortunately it tanked.

i would attribute the failure to TLC's mech design. it's terrible. it's neither here nor there. they tried coming up with themes and even those suck. i think they need to make the themes coherent. jungle mech warfare is doable but not with those crazy pointy bricks. i mean even SW has a better coherent theme. there's hoth and hoth gears/mechs, there's endor/ewoks for jungle warfare, tatooine for desert, etc.

the mechs have to be believable. they have to be designed to work in those settings instead of like a mish-mash of parts. there's actually a lot of possibilities with this line if only they had done it right.

there's the desert settings - highly visible, little to no protection cover - which will require the mechs to have better camo, stealth design (not heavier armor), long range capabilities, horizontally designed (rather than big and tall mechs), tunneling (digging) abilities, etc.

the jungle theme - low visibility, heavy cover, lots of defense, poor range - which provides better camo but most mechs will be in shades of green, more melee attacks (range is terrible), slicker design (taller and slimmer to blend into the forest), heavier armor, etc.

the urban theme (city) - which emphasise on heavier armor, blockier (to look like buildings), sniping attacks, emphasis on speed (for moving from one cover to the next), silent and armor piercing attacks.

so far they have done bridge theme, golden city (dunno what's that) and the jungle theme. none of the mechs have a coherent design. the titan is always large and unwieldy. the hunter is always fast and speedy. the hayato mech is always a support mech and the ryo mech is always a medic.

i'm hoping they take the lesson learnt and maybe apply better in the agents theme. there's always the possibility of exo suits and mechs for the agents!

Wow, you put a lot of thought behind this, Natelite. Love how you specify the look of the mecha in conjunction with its environment/mission. I posted my previous reply before reading yours.

I'm not much of a BT/MW mecha fan, preferring the look of Macross, Armored Kore, Five Star Stories, Evangelion(I know, the EVAs aren't mecha per se), GiTS, etc. But to be fair, Mechwarrior and Battletech have huge followings. So, I guess it's not as much about the mech's Eastern/Western aesthetic as how the mech is built. EF was built, obviously on the cheap, with not much technical thought, but with quick building, no realism, a fair bit of articulation thrown in, "playability" gimmicks, and anime inspired figs. The mechs themselves do not look Japanese at all, although the PR campaign and decal designs suggested otherwise. The new joints were the strength of this line, as well as the new mech arms and claw pieces, IMHO, more than anything else. Well, I did like the alternate models for many of the 2006 line, as they often looked better than the primary models. Not continuing this trend hurt the line considerably, I think.

Hopefully, the Agents will get mecha...transforming mecha would be better, but i digress. :-P

The upcoming Mars Mission set has a great little mech design for the astronaut. The arms are :-X, but the overall aesthetic is sweet.

Link: http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/benlego/2008/ALL/7646.jpg

[natelite]

It doesn't seem like a good practice to sell products globally for which there have only been made a Danish marked analysis. I have only seen these screenings in Denmark, but it doesn't mean that this is the only place it is done.

That said, this was not the point. The point is that Exo Force was not made because of some "Danish kids who don't play with LEGO" suggested it. I read the sentence and figured how an American might have said it, which is why I was so harsh in my remark. I'm sorry if that has offended you.

I also sorry for my factual error. Takeshi is a given name and not a surname. I made the mistake because the names are pronounced in opposite order in Japan, but this does of course not change their types.

Wow. I'm suddenly not so sad about the demise of Exo Force...

hey lasse, no harm done. ;-) yes it is quite myopic in that sense but a lot of companies do that. japanese electronic giants release gizmos in japan ahead of the rest of the world because essentially japan is their test market. i'm not surprised lego tested the majority of their products in denmark. although according to the designer's blog, they also tested on UK kids too. :-P

why aren't you be sad with the demise?

[Lasse D]

The latter responses in this thread have made me think more about the designs of the mechs, and I think many of the posters are on to something about them being westernized.

I actually think I will reserve judgment and wait to see what replaces Exo Force. If it is replaced by a licensed Mecha-theme, then I'll be very happy for it.

If some people can dreams about Pirates, then I should be able to dream about this as well :-D

I will still be quite baffled if LEGO really doesn't "screen" in America (it's called screening in Danish). I mean. It is the second largest marked (second to Germany, right?), so to release something like the new and very European like Mail sub theme for City seems a bit risky.

[DJ Force]

I haveto say that I really liked theMecha designs, BECAUSE they were different from western and asian style. It was a mixture that just somehow appealed to me. It was futuristic in design and had this "used universe" look to it, that made Star Wars (Classic of course) so believable. Furthermore it had a bit of the ever so popular anime feel to it, with the Manga faces and hairs, the names and the japanese decals. But still it had this western feeling too, with the use of big, heavy, bulky weapons opposed to the sleek and curvy designs of japanese mecha-weapons. Even if the japanese manga and anime style continues to increase all over the world, I think it

[xwingyoda]

2006 - flawless

I wouldn't go as far !! It was a new line so we were all excited about it and that beeing said we undermined its nulmerous flaws IMO

The models were OK but not fantastically stable and I'm not going to enter the alternate models that need glue to stay together >:-(

The Mfs were brilliant IMO, thats for sure

2007 - flaws:

- no light-up brick

- code-bricks that made no sense for the AFOLs (who actually used the kiddy stuff offered for entering the codes? It was just booooring)

No light brick ? I would deem that a ++ (cost reduction and those darn bricks didn't light up that much due to their week power source)

And those code bricks were great for City fans !! Printed license plates 8-

[Shadows]

And those code bricks were great for City fans !! Printed license plates 8-

[DJ Force]

The models were OK but not fantastically stable and I'm not going to enter the alternate models that need glue to stay together >:-(

So far I

[natelite]

i think the small sets of 2007 were right on the mark. sales would kinda confirm that. they were small enough that the ball joints work and allow for good poses as well as playability. the click joints work better on the larger $15 sets. i agree the ball joints on the larger were a hinderance because they didn't allow for better movements. they almost reminded me of that t-rex from "meet the robinsons": big head, tiny arms, i'm not sure how well the plan was thought through. :-P seriously...blade titan and the twirling blades...hardly any room to twirl without cutting your own mech.

but even then they were still okay hits. as mentioned in the first post the bummers were the larger sets. i think the mobile devastator was especially terrible. the design just wasn't good, so very few buy them for the design. then there's hardly any value as parts pack. who wants large neon green wheels and tons of technic bricks? no offense gylman/dunamis! (sorry, i forgot who's the technic junkie) :-P the only saving grace is the wolverine mecha but $90 for one mech??? sorry buddy...if it was on clearance for $15 maybe. at least sentai fortress still has a pretty cool repair bay and 2 mechs, one of them was silent strike *wub* . this makes the value slightly better at around $40-50 in terms of design/set appeal.

on its demise, it's a combination of better other themes/lines and poor designs. if castle wasn't made in 2007, i'm sure the MD would beat the crap out of MM's base. on that note, i think castle cannibalized many of the other themes. most parents would probably buy just one $90-100 set. out of the available choices, AR's base for $70, MM base for $90, MD for $90 or castle siege for $100...which one would you get?

As for MM, I think it survived because of the strong mid-sized sets. it has strong $10 set (the trike), a strong $30 set (the robot is rather creative and new), a strong $40 set (the pelican is great), and a strong $80 set (the armadillo). i think even the alien mothership was a bummer...and the $20 set was ugly.

with the new and better themes, i.e. indy jones, SW 08 (which has like 50-70% more sets than 07's), castle 08, city 08, creator 08, even more marginal sets/themes will be affected. AR is dead. MM is dying (the 2 08 sets are bad, the summer 08 may hold some surprises, but can it win against the other lego titans???). SBSP may still attracts girls or parents of girls but definitely the choices for boys lie with the other better themes.

of the themes in 08, i think the winners (top 3) will be SW, IJ, castle. In that order. The losers (bottom 3) will be EF, MM, racers/batman.

p.s. on fragile alternate models: the alternate for the 06 tank is rather fragile. it falls apart very often. same with the stealth hunter alternate. the titan walker though is quite good. the rest are just a rehash of flyers...boring.