Brethren of the Brick Seas (BoBS) Intro Thread, Era II

[Darnok]

Two questions.

1. How are "friendly" ships in port handled during raids? As an example, assume faction Xs settlement of Namelessia is raided by a fleet of faction Y, with three ships of faction X in port during the same MRCA turn. How does this add up?
2. How do I license a ship for which a license has been bought in the past, but the MOC is only up soon™? What options would I pick in the ship licensing form?

As always: thanks in advance!

[Mesabi]

@Capt Wolf, a few clarifications about some rule changes.

1. So Troop Carrying Capacity. What's the maximum amount of troops a ship can carry per class, assuming the ship has a maxed out cargo stat? Can troops be 'packaged' or made easier to transport?
   1. Additionally, can you please add the raiding rules to the 'Rules updates and Clarifications' page please? 
2. Buying Troops. There are now limits to how many troops you can buy per city, but what about NPC cities? Can I raise an army in Belson, or is thart off the table, or are their limits to that as well?

Thank You!

[Capt Wolf]

16 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

What's the maximum amount of troops a ship can carry per class

Use the formula provided. You can determine the max cargo for a given class easily enough.

16 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

Can troops be 'packaged' or made easier to transport? 

Nope.

17 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

There are now limits to how many troops you can buy per city, but what about NPC cities? Can I raise an army in Belson, or is that off the table, or are their limits to that as well?

For now, they're off limits, although leadership is discussing the matter.

17 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

Additionally, can you please add the raiding rules to the 'Rules updates and Clarifications' page please?

Thanks for the reminder. Done.

43 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

How are "friendly" ships in port handled during raids? As an example, assume faction Xs settlement of Namelessia is raided by a fleet of faction Y, with three ships of faction X in port during the same MRCA turn. How does this add up?

Ships in port don't factor into the raid equation. Any encounters with ships on patrol happen before the raid. Unencountered ships in port just get to watch the raid for entertainment purposes (and please, no wagering ). (@Captain Genaro, correct me if I'm wrong here.)

46 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

How do I license a ship for which a license has been bought in the past, but the MOC is only up soon™? What options would I pick in the ship licensing form?

Can't license until the MOC is up.

 

[Darnok]

18 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

Can't license until the MOC is up.

I of course meant "how is the process handled the moment I have posted the MOC?".

[Capt Wolf]

8 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

I of course meant "how is the process handled the moment I have posted the MOC?".

I guess I don't understand the question. Specifics might help here.      Or this might be a question for @Legostone or someone who knows the ship licensing form better than I do.

[Darnok]

39 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

I guess I don't understand the question. Specifics might help here.      Or this might be a question for @Legostone or someone who knows the ship licensing form better than I do.

I have bought the license for the "Misfortune's Wrath" for Mesabi Landing in the last auction. There is no MOC attached to this license yet, which I want to change in the next days. The question is: what are the details of the licensing process in this case, since this is no "free license" and no new license either?

 

I guess either @Legostone or @Captain Genaro know for sure.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Drunknok

[Capt Wolf]

17 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

I have bought the license for the "Misfurtune's Wrath" for Mesabi Landing in the last auction. There is no MOC attached to this license yet, which I want to change in the next days. The question is: what are the details of the licensing process in this case, since this is no "free license" and no new license either?

OK, I see. I think "free license" might actually apply here, as you are not paying any extra for the license after acquiring it. Or @Legostone can do some magic behind the scenes in transferring the license and attaching the MOC link.

[Darnok]

I have just filled out the new troops form to move 10 of my troops - previously on the Pirate Hunt AMCRA - to Mesabi Landing. I left "Location" blank, since they were not strictly in one place befor, hoping this works.

[Legostone]

13 hours ago, Capt Wolf said:

OK, I see. I think "free license" might actually apply here, as you are not paying any extra for the license after acquiring it. Or @Legostone can do some magic behind the scenes in transferring the license and attaching the MOC link.

You pick "changing the link to the MOC" option while filling out the form :P May I ask for confirmation that Mesabi Landing stays the owner of that vessel?

[Darnok]

6 minutes ago, Legostone said:

You pick "changing the link to the MOC" option while filling out the form :P May I ask for confirmation that Mesabi Landing stays the owner of that vessel?

Ah, thanks a lot. And of course Mesabi Landing will stay the owner.

[Elostirion]

Quick reasoning for the Montario and Nova Terreli loans:
The announcement for the next MRCA was given 14 days ago.  With an A-MRCA MOC that I had to build in this short timeframe, I did not have any time left to work on fortresses or extensive troop MOCs. However fortresses (or at least large troops) are mandatory to cope with the new raiding rules. Sure, I could have pumped out quick shit-MOCs, just for the sake of the EGS, but I will not contribute to ruining BoBS with lack of quality.
If leadership decides my actions are illegal, so be it, and feel free to reverse all transactions. However I see no rule forbidding what I just did, and loans have been made in the past already. If at all new rules should be future-oriented in my opinion, and if my actions give the case to clarify things, that would be ok.

[Darnok]

Here we go again...

11 hours ago, Elostirion said:

Quick reasoning for the Montario and Nova Terreli loans:
The announcement for the next MRCA was given 14 days ago.  With an A-MRCA MOC that I had to build in this short timeframe, I did not have any time left to work on fortresses or extensive troop MOCs. However fortresses (or at least large troops) are mandatory to cope with the new raiding rules. Sure, I could have pumped out quick shit-MOCs, just for the sake of the EGS, but I will not contribute to ruining BoBS with lack of quality.
If leadership decides my actions are illegal, so be it, and feel free to reverse all transactions. However I see no rule forbidding what I just did, and loans have been made in the past already. If at all new rules should be future-oriented in my opinion, and if my actions give the case to clarify things, that would be ok.

So, "pumping out quick shit-MOCs" is gaming the EGS, but transferring funds from settlements to private accounts (so they can not be raided) is not? Interesting opinion...

Apart from that: who is "contributing to ruining BoBS with lack of quality"? Which are these "quick shit-MOCs"? Quite an attitude you have there.

 

P.S.: For everybody who does not understand: several not-so-well-defended settlements have had most of their DBs "loaned" to player accounts, so in case of a raid these amounts could not be lost. This is completely legal by the current rules, but makes raids a mockery obviously.

[Maxim I]

I haven't loaned the DB's of Trador to a player account, but put them in the safe Bank of Corrington, so it still is in the game :) I could have licenced soldiers with it, that's true, but as said earlier, I can't do much more than photographing figs on a table right now...

I could LDD build a fort. And I have been tempted to finish my big digital fortress (which I started months ago), but I decided for myself (also months ago) that I am not licencing a digital MOC without a real brick sidebuild.

So yes it sucks very hard for me right now and it will be the same the next MRCA and perhaps even the one after that. The only thing I can do is sent some vessels on a Trade Run. I can't continue my AMRCA's, not expand my fleet or my property imperium. So that's why I set up an account for Trador in the BoC. If someone raids Trador, well good for them, but I can't respond within 2 or 3 months.

[Bregir]

The court will find a way around this. Obviously, the point is not to find ways to embezzle or hide money from the raiders. So those of you who feel you may have found a way to safeguard your money might end up being disappointed.

There might not be anything specific in the rules about this, but the spirit of the rules is the main thing here. And obviously, the spirit of the rules is not that raiding should be irrelevant for neither raider or raidee.

These transfers can, in my personal opinion, only be fair in a ruleset where money can be intercepted during transport, or regardless of who holds them. And I do not think we want a complicated ruleset for moving funds around.

We will get back when we know more.

22 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

Quite an attitude you have there.

Drunknok, Elos is explaining his own position, that he does not want to post something he is not satisfied with. There is no reason to make it a conflict by projecting his own standards on others, when he has not done so himself.

Let us not make this a conflict.

[Darnok]

3 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Drunknok, Elos is explaining his own position, that he does not want to post something he is not satisfied with. There is no reason to make it a conflict by projecting his own standards on others, when he has not done so himself.

Quite some selective reading on your part then.

[Elostirion]

40 minutes ago, Bregir said:

The court will find a way around this. Obviously, the point is not to find ways to embezzle or hide money from the raiders. So those of you who feel you may have found a way to safeguard your money might end up being disappointed.

 There might not be anything specific in the rules about this, but the spirit of the rules is the main thing here. And obviously, the spirit of the rules is not that raiding should be irrelevant for neither raider or raidee.

 These transfers can, in my personal opinion, only be fair in a ruleset where money can be intercepted during transport, or regardless of who holds them. And I do not think we want a complicated ruleset for moving funds around.

 We will get back when we know more.

My only concern is that those rule changes come too suddenly, with too little time to prepare. For more than 2.5 years now noone had to be afraid for his money, neither in raids nor in transfers (as you suggest). I 100% approve both changes, but you should definitely leave players with some time to prepare for this. And 2 weeks definitely is not enough, neither for fort-building nor to properly prepare for potential transport-interferences.

I personally wouldn't cry if the money is robbed anyway, I just think that sudden rule changes (for the player base) are not the way to go.

 

@Drunknok: I have not adressed any MOCs from other players, but only talked about my personal MOC quality.
However if you yourself feel that you need to improve your MOC quality, I will not stand in your way.

[Kwatchi]

To be frank, this is all a tempest in a teacup.  The raiding rules came far too late to be of any use - too many microforts got awarded already and the added disincentive of black flagging make a non-starter.  Unless the council tries them out with an NPC, I don’t foresee them ever being used in peace time.

Dont worry about your game moneys; Traders of Trade Seas will continue unabated. 

 

[Darnok]

26 minutes ago, Elostirion said:

However if you yourself feel that you need to improve your MOC quality, I will not stand in your way.

Du mich auch.

[Legostone]

@Fraunces Can you PM me your intended stats for " The Octopus'"? You've added 41 stat points for a class 5 vessel which isn't right  If you don't manage to get back to me before the MRCA  we'll figure out a way to let it sail without breaking everything, but it would be best if we can resolve this quickly.

[Maxim I]

9 hours ago, Bregir said:

These transfers can, in my personal opinion, only be fair in a ruleset where money can be intercepted during transport, or regardless of who holds them. And I do not think we want a complicated ruleset for moving funds around.

This is something I can only support (transferring money via ships). But where do you will draw the line?

Trador transferred to the Bank of Corrington. Does this means that from now on off, every transaction of the BoC will require a vessel? When sending money from player to player, does this needs a vessel as well?

It would be another option that Banks can be raided as well. But how to put this in the game?

Anyway, I honestly thought that Town Bank and Available Funds are two different things. 50% of the income goes to the Town Bank, the other to available funds, right? So there still should be 750 db's in the Townbank of Trador...

[Bregir]

2 minutes ago, Maxim I said:

This is something I can only support

I cannot. We do not need more complexity, so unless an easy to understand and operate solution can be presented, this is unrealistic.

3 minutes ago, Maxim I said:

Anyway, I honestly thought that Town Bank and Available Funds are two different things.

This is old hat. And in any case, being raided should have consequences for the one being raided. Just digging into a reserve that can't do anything else is just adding even more money to the game.

[Maxim I]

3 hours ago, Bregir said:

I cannot. We do not need more complexity, so unless an easy to understand and operate solution can be presented, this is unrealistic.

This is old hat. And in any case, being raided should have consequences for the one being raided. Just digging into a reserve that can't do anything else is just adding even more money to the game.

I do think that transferring money over ships will make it way more interesting for Black Flag etc... See it as the Silver and Gold transports Spain and Portugal did between Latin-America and Europe...

I know it will bring an extra (complex) layer to the game, but it would give more RPG elements to it as well... More banks popping up to make safer transactions possible.

For example: Bank of Trador has a quarter in Trador and Breshaun, both with a reserve of 1000 db's. When I transfer (500 db's) to someone in or around Breshaun, (or have to pay a bill in Breshaun), I transfer 500 db's to the Bank of Trador in Trador (total reserve in Trador: 1500). The Bank of Trador pays the recipient 500 Db's (total reserve in Breshaun: 500 db's). For this service, I pay x% to the Bank of Trador. Every now and then the Bank of Trador will have to charter a fleet to transfer funds from one location to another.

Further worked out.

Bank of Trador active in Breshaun (500 db's), Fuerto Unido (1000 db's) and Trador (1500 db's)
Bank of Corrington also active in Breshaun (1250 db's), Jameston (1000 db's) and Trador (500 db's).
=> Both banks can make a trade to make their reserves more even.
=> Or Bank of Corrington can receive a transfer request (800 db's) in Jameston (to be sent to Fuerto Unido) and asks the Bank of Trador if they can pay out. Administration notes a debt from the Bank of Corrington towards the Bank of Trador of xxx db's.

This can become more interesting when raiding a settlement can give more reward than the Town Bank alone. Let's be honest, when pirates raid a settlement, they don't only loot the Town Bank, but also raid every house they come across. So they got a 1/10 chance to succesfully raid a Bank (for each Bank) active in that settlement. And a 1/10 chance to successfully raid the house of other players (meaning they can steal a random part of other players funds).

It would mean that it is safer for players to put their money in the Bank as the Bank always guarantees repaying debts even when raided. Banks will have to find insurances (insurance companies finally having some sort of meaning). More money being moved in the game. And a lot more to gain for raiders than a meagre 400 db's when raiding a decent fortified city.

==> as a side note, I would add a 1.1=>2 modifier for raiding settlements ansich. As said, you don't only raid a Town Bank but also shops and houses of NPC's

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Maxim I

[Ross Fisher]

14 minutes ago, Maxim I said:

insurance companies finally having some sort of meaning

*Waits for the Sea Rats to launch the Crimson Permanent Assurance*

[Darnok]

There are some cases were settlements of one faction are close enough to each other so that the "defense radius" of forts covers more than one settlement. One example is Cocovia, where King's Harbour and Quinnsville are less than 50 miles apart. So the medium fort in KH also covers QV, and the large fort in QV also covers KH (while the small forts in each only matter for their "home town"). I do not know the details of Isla de Victoria, but Eslandola has quite a few settlements there that could easily cover each other too.

 

Is this accounted for by the raiding rules? Is this perhaps something that is about to change?

[Legostone]

57 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

There are some cases were settlements of one faction are close enough to each other so that the "defense radius" of forts covers more than one settlement. One example is Cocovia, where King's Harbour and Quinnsville are less than 50 miles apart. So the medium fort in KH also covers QV, and the large fort in QV also covers KH (while the small forts in each only matter for their "home town"). I do not know the details of Isla de Victoria, but Eslandola has quite a few settlements there that could easily cover each other too.

 

Is this accounted for by the raiding rules? Is this perhaps something that is about to change?

I think it'll be accounted for in the upcoming war rules, not in the raiding rules. If you feel the desire to raid a settlement without fortificiations the neighboring settlements don't matter, at least for now. The Royal Fortress in Puerte Desafio doesn't protect Fuerte Unido (Large Fortress) nor Nova Malto (Medium Fortress) nor the two small Fortress only Settlements on the island.