2018 Lego Trains

[Carefree_Dude]

5 hours ago, ClassicTrains said:

I'm not sure if this was posted yet, I guess not. :)

 

I don't have access to sound, but am I interpreting the end of that video right? Is the train motor struggling to pull it? 

[ColletArrow]

6 minutes ago, Goldenmasamune said:

I don't have access to sound, but am I interpreting the end of that video right? Is the train motor struggling to pull it? 

No, they just didn't have any batteries to put in it (see auto-translated subtitles at 17:58 ish). I'd hope the motor will pull a doubled-up set; the question is how long it will run for on one set of batteries.

I do think it looks quite impressive when doubled up at a distance though, especially with the continuation of the colours.

[sed6]

5 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

I'd hope the motor will pull a doubled-up set; the question is how long it will run for on one set of batteries.

I'm sure it will. I'd bet it will run at least half as long a single train, maybe even 75 percent as long if you remove the motor from the back engine so it doesn't drag. 

[Chromeknight]

Looking at the way they were able to push the train around without batteries, there’d be very little drag from the back engine even if unpowered.

[JopieK]

I noticed the same with the 60198 engine. I'm working on the review, built the entire set already, need still add the stickers and make the entire loop. Then I need to find my very tiny torx screwdrivers to open the electronics, (but I will probably do that part at a later moment).

[freestorm]

12 minutes ago, JopieK said:

I noticed the same with the 60198 engine. I'm working on the review, built the entire set already, need still add the stickers and make the entire loop. Then I need to find my very tiny torx screwdrivers to open the electronics, (but I will probably do that part at a later moment).

It will be cool if you can try to shutdown the remote or go out if range when the train is running
So we can know if PU have a watchdog that stop the motor when out of range.

 

[ElectroDiva]

On 03/06/2018 at 4:00 PM, Roebuck said:

Well the only thing I can think of on the top of my head is the Hogwarts express, but since we are getting that this year a D2C/creator expert version is several years into the future at best  

Yep - I was surprised they didn’t make the new Hogwarts Express a more complex D2C set. I’m ok with what they’re going to put out though (I will take that set as a base for expansion and MOCs)

 

On 04/06/2018 at 4:23 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

If only someone could pry the merchandising rights to the Thomas the Tank Engine franchise away from Mattel, then we'd have a winner! But, alas... 

If only. That would be a dream crossover theme for most lego train fans 

[Roebuck]

1 hour ago, ElectroDiva said:

Yep - I was surprised they didn’t make the new Hogwarts Express a more complex D2C set. I’m ok with what they’re going to put out though (I will take that set as a base for expansion and MOCs)

Most likely because they are making another huge D2C set for the theme

1 hour ago, ElectroDiva said:

If only. That would be a dream crossover theme for most lego train fans 

Thomas the Tank Engine would most likely end up as duplo or juniors sets, so would be of little help in lunching a new D2C train.. Back to the future have a slim chance for a crossover maybe

[JopieK]

If LEGO would release the STM boot loader (I guess there is an STM chip in it just like with Boost), then we would be able to overrule / void that watchdog.

[freestorm]

4 minutes ago, JopieK said:

If LEGO would release the STM boot loader (I guess there is an STM chip in it just like with Boost), then we would be able to overrule / void that watchdog.

Yes, like what we ca do with Sbrick (I think it need to be set every reboot)

[HenrikLego]

56 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

Back to the future have a slim chance for a crossover maybe

Yeah, except someone already tried to push that throught:
https://ideas.lego.com/projects/49ef8341-b927-4768-9635-f1f882de1c63

[wooster]

20 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

No, they just didn't have any batteries to put in it (see auto-translated subtitles at 17:58 ish). I'd hope the motor will pull a doubled-up set; the question is how long it will run for on one set of batteries.

I do think it looks quite impressive when doubled up at a distance though, especially with the continuation of the colours.

I doubled up 60051, and it ran with no problem.  You could sense a little more drag on the motor, but it still ran nicely.  I'm not sure how long it would run compared to a single set.

And to be clear, I took a second set of 60051 and converted it into 2 more passenger cars.  So by doubling the set, what I actually ended up with was two of the "engine" cars with the pointy nose and three passenger cars.  Only one of the "engine" cars was actually motorized.  

[Roebuck]

2 hours ago, HenrikLego said:

Yeah, except someone already tried to push that throught:
https://ideas.lego.com/projects/49ef8341-b927-4768-9635-f1f882de1c63

Well sometimes Lego make sets that have been rejected in Ideas, but as I said slim chance A Hogwarts express in about 5 years is more likely

[sed6]

On 6/5/2018 at 8:58 PM, Chromeknight said:

Looking at the way they were able to push the train around without batteries, there’d be very little drag from the back engine even if unpowered.

Honestly that would be impossible to tell from watching the video. Even a child can push an unpowered train with zero perceived effort. See my measured results below..

19 hours ago, JopieK said:

I noticed the same with the 60198 engine.

I strongly doubt the motors and gearing are improved in any way to reduce rolling resistance. There's no reason for TLG to re-engineer this motor beyond the connector. See my test results below. 

14 hours ago, wooster said:

I doubled up 60051, and it ran with no problem.  You could sense a little more drag on the motor, but it still ran nicely.  I'm not sure how long it would run compared to a single set.

Not as long to be sure. How can I be sure? I just took some measurements. Keep reading. 

I have always found the drag of an unpowered motor to be huge compared to that of a train car. I first noticed it when I gave my cars the "flick test" months ago. Pick any single car you have and give it a flick with your finger, as hard as you can and see just how far it will roll on the tracks. Mine roll a long way. Do the same with an engine. It doesn't roll far at all! That's because of the drag from the unpowered motor.

I took some measurements on the force required to push my 60051 train. I used a small gram scale turned on it's side. Here are my results:

Two engines with motors and three passenger cars: 100 grams 

Two engines alone: 70 grams

Three cars alone: 30 grams

These results show that the unpowered engine with a motor requires over three times the force to move as a car! Or for every unpowered engine you drag around you could pull three additional cars with the same effort. Or an unpowered engine on the back of a three car train nearly doubles the amount of work the powered engine does to move the train!

I hope this puts to rest the speculation that an engine with an unpowered motor dragging along on the back isn't that big of a deal, because it is.

(A couple of notes about my testing methods. It doesn't matter if my gram scale is accurate nor does it matter if my testing is an accurate measure of the forces required to move the cars. My testing is designed to measure the differences between the cars and engine. This is the difference between accuracy and precision. If you need to further understand what I mean check out the link below. Secondly my results don't translate directly into running time for the train. Just because an unpowered engine at the back of a three car train doubles the load the powered engine must pull, that doesnt mean running time is cut in half. Runtime is determined by the capacity of the battery divided by work. I'd speculate that the majority of the work comes from moving the powered engine itself. I could measure this properly with a small watt meter but don't feel inclined. You could measure this yourself by running a set of batteries thru a single engine by itself until it quits, then repeat pulling three cars, then repeat pulling three cars and an unpowered engine with a motor in back. Then compare their running times. If I had to guess I'd guess that 90 percent of the battery goes to moving the engine alone and the two cars of 60051 or 60197 reduce run time by only about 10 percent. If you double up the train and drag the unpowered motor around also that number probably increases to a 30 or 40 percent reduction in run time.)

http://www.statisticshowto.com/accuracy-and-precision/

Final thought: Why drag around an unpowered motor anyway? Pull that sucker out and sell it or use it in another project. Or, better yet, power it for more speed or power!

[JopieK]

Sed6, after opening the motor and reading your arguments I totally agree with you after all ;)

[Bartybum]

Gotta say when doubled up it’s a pretty set

[wooster]

8 hours ago, sed6 said:

These results show that the unpowered engine with a motor requires over three times the force to move as a car! Or for every unpowered engine you drag around you could pull three additional cars with the same effort. Or an unpowered engine on the back of a three car train nearly doubles the amount of work the powered engine does to move the train!

I hope this puts to rest the speculation that an engine with an unpowered motor dragging along on the back isn't that big of a deal, because it is.

Final thought: Why drag around an unpowered motor anyway? Pull that sucker out and sell it or use it in another project. Or, better yet, power it for more speed or power!

2

Who said anything about dragging around an unpowered motor?  I said one of the engine cars was motorized, and one was not.  And there were three passenger cars between them.  So one motorized and powered car, and 4 non-powered.  I'm not sure why you typed half a page to explain that dragging a car with a non-powered motor would cause a lot more drag.  You even went as far as to measure this effect.  Thank you for quantifying the obvious.

[JopieK]

53 minutes ago, wooster said:

Who said anything about dragging around an unpowered motor?  I said one of the engine cars was motorized, and one was not.  And there were three passenger cars between them.  So one motorized and powered car, and 4 non-powered.  I'm not sure why you typed half a page to explain that dragging a car with a non-powered motor would cause a lot more drag.  You even went as far as to measure this effect.  Thank you for quantifying the obvious.

Nevertheless the severity of the effect depends on how the motor is built, how they did the gear setup, etc (I mean if they would use worm gears it would be impossible to turn the wheels). Even the way the electronics are designed matters, if one would e.g. use an inductor that might influence the end result quite a bit. So it is not that obvious at all! (To be clear: maybe that is not what you did, but still valuable information for others).

[sed6]

11 hours ago, wooster said:

Who said anything about dragging around an unpowered motor?  I said one of the engine cars was motorized, and one was not.  And there were three passenger cars between them.  So one motorized and powered car, and 4 non-powered.  I'm not sure why you typed half a page to explain that dragging a car with a non-powered motor would cause a lot more drag.  You even went as far as to measure this effect.  Thank you for quantifying the obvious.

Don't get so butt hurt. My observations weren't a personal attack against your thin skin. There's been discussion about dragging around an unpowered engine with a motor in this thread and others. Read more carefully before you randomly attack someone who's just trying to help others.

Edited June 8, 2018 by sed6
cnat spele

[JopieK]

Hi guys, please be a little more friendly to each other, you both made some useful observations, just from a different vantage point. :)

[Bricked1980]

Now that reviews, videos and pics of the new sets are available, my overall opinion is that they are pretty decent sets. The only thing that bugs me about the passenger train is the lack of doors and also I'd been hoping for a bit more detail inside the coaches. The buffet compartment is not bad but the other coach just has the usual couple of very basic chairs and tables.

I like the cargo train, except for all the exposed studs around the front of the cab area. Also the bank robber and arctic vehicle seem a bit too gimmicky for me. I do appreciate that this provides great playability and crossover with other current city sets though.

[Vilhelm22]

Don't know if anyone noticed but the app is out.  I find kind of ridiculous that it takes up 525 MB, though.  The SBrick app only takes up 5.1 MB.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Vilhelm22

[legotownlinz]

It takes 136 MB on my Android device.

[legotownlinz]

I had a look at the Powered Up Android App today. It was developed with Unity, a cross platform game engine. The APK includes the Unity runtime, which explains the file size.

I've unpacked the app and took a look at the embedded images. Besides images of the train battery box, the Boost Move Hub and the WeDo Hub, there is a Duplo motor image, too. Is Duplo also part of Powered Up?

Edited June 19, 2018 by legotownlinz

[Mr Hobbles]

13 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

I had a look at the Powered Up Android App today. It was developed with Unity, a cross platform game engine. The APK includes the Unity runtime, which explains the file size.

I've unpacked the app and took a look at the embedded images. Besides images of the train battery box, the Boost Move Hub and the WeDo Hub, there is a Duplo motor image, too. Is Duplo also part of Powered Up?

I wondered this when I saw the new Duplo trains - they are app controlled via Bluetooth just like the System train sets, and they have a colour sensor built into the bottom. I wonder if it presents itself with a similar protocol (pu hub+color sensor attached).

I don't own any Duplo stuff myself, but it'd be interesting if someone tried sniffing it to check. :)