An open letter about the Lego City fire lineup for 2019

[sasbury]

Dear Lego,

We know you design sets in advance, and it's very likely we'll see another lineup of fire sets for city. In conversations with other Lego fire builders, we humbly submit 5 requests regarding that theme. Thank you, in advance, for your consideration.

1. It's time for a new air tank mold.

The double-airtank Lego mold is now 40 years old and inaccurate. It's probably time for an update. Firefighters in the United States (and around the world) use airtanks that are a single tank, not a double tank. See this photo

 

2. It's time for a more modern stretcher (Stokes basket).

The Lego stretcher piece is from WWI. We're now 100 years past that technology.

We'd really appreciate a Stokes basket piece.

3. We're desperate for lift doors in sizes other than just 4-tall. A 2-studs-tall (4 wide) version would be awesome.

Also, we need them in red. The ones on Bricklink are going for $25+ EACH!

4. We'd like a 6-wide windscreen piece that's not sloped. This part – but in a 6-wide version.

5. This one is optional, but would be awesome. How about yellow printing on a black helmet? This is the standard helmet for firefighters in much of the U.S.

One way to address this would be to release a collectable American firefighter minifig. It's strange that in all the collectible minifigs, there isn't a firefighter.

Thank you for reading this and considering these requests.

-Steven Asbury (and members of the Lego fire community)

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by sasbury

[deraven]

Wow- what an altogether reasonable list.    Nice examples and well-said.  I agree on all counts, for what it's worth.

[Rick]

Interesting topic. I, too, am surprised of the age of some of the defining parts of the City fire fighting theme. Most parts date back to the Classic Town era.

I suppose the problem that LEGO faces stems from big international differences in the "look" of fire fighters and apparatus. Some of your requests are typical for the US.

4 hours ago, sasbury said:

1. It's time for a new air tank mold.

The double-airtank Lego mold is now 40 years old and inaccurate. It's probably time for an update. Firefighters in the United States (and around the world) use airtanks that are a single tank, not a double tank.

I don't know of a fire department that uses double airtanks. Fire departments here in Europe used single airtanks even when the piece was introduced at the end of the 1970s. Weird that this one is still around.

Quote

2. It's time for a more modern stretcher (Stokes basket).

The Lego stretcher piece is from WWI. We're now 100 years past that technology.

I'm surprised LEGO didn't take the opportunity to modernise this piece when they introduced the new stretcher piece.

Quote

3. We're desperate for lift doors in sizes other than just 4-tall. A 2-studs-tall (4 wide) version would be awesome.

Also, we need them in red. The ones on Bricklink are going for $25+ EACH![/quote]

Internationally, engines don't have "low" roller doors, so I can imagine LEGO sticks with taller versions. But I do agree that we need more variation. Perhaps a new system that more faithfully simulates door actually rolling up.

Quote

4. We'd like a 6-wide windscreen piece that's not sloped. This part – but in a 6-wide version.

There's this part, but I realise that does not capture the look of typical US fire engines.

Quote

5. This one is optional, but would be awesome. How about yellow printing on a black helmet? This is the standard helmet for firefighters in much of the U.S.

One way to address this would be to release a collectable American firefighter minifig. It's strange that in all the collectible minifigs, there isn't a firefighter.

I too am surpised we haven't at least seen a typical US and European fire fighter in the CMF range, while we've had a typical US motorcycle cop and British Bobby, for example.

It's surprising that LEGO is still using this style of helmet, whereas fire departments in Europe have long switched to these kind of helmets. I suppose the classic fire helmets are easily recognisable though.

Adding to the list, I'm surprised the roller doors have not been updated since the early 1980s. They were designed for bays with 4-wide fire engines and have flimsy connections between sections. A 10 or 12-wide version seems much more appropriate for today's 6+-wide fire engines. Also, the sections would look a lot better if they were taller.

 

Also, there is virtually no rescue equipment available. Vehicle extraction using hand axes...?

[scottwb2010]

7 hours ago, sasbury said:

Dear Lego,

We know you design sets in advance, and it's very likely we'll see another lineup of fire sets for city. In conversations with other Lego fire builders, we humbly submit 5 requests regarding that theme. Thank you, in advance, for your consideration.

1. It's time for a new air tank mold.

The double-airtank Lego mold is now 40 years old and inaccurate. It's probably time for an update. Firefighters in the United States (and around the world) use airtanks that are a single tank, not a double tank. See this photo

 

2. It's time for a more modern stretcher (Stokes basket).

The Lego stretcher piece is from WWI. We're now 100 years past that technology.

We'd really appreciate a Stokes basket piece.

3. We're desperate for lift doors in sizes other than just 4-tall. A 2-studs-tall (4 wide) version would be awesome.

Also, we need them in red. The ones on Bricklink are going for $25+ EACH!

4. We'd like a 6-wide windscreen piece that's not sloped. This part – but in a 6-wide version.

5. This one is optional, but would be awesome. How about yellow printing on a black helmet? This is the standard helmet for firefighters in much of the U.S.

One way to address this would be to release a collectable American firefighter minifig. It's strange that in all the collectible minifigs, there isn't a firefighter.

Thank you for reading this and considering these requests.

-Steven Asbury (and members of the Lego fire community)

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Rick said:

Interesting topic. I, too, am surprised of the age of some of the defining parts of the City fire fighting theme. Most parts date back to the Classic Town era.

I suppose the problem that LEGO faces stems from big international differences in the "look" of fire fighters and apparatus. Some of your requests are typical for the US.

I don't know of a fire department that uses double airtanks. Fire departments here in Europe used single airtanks even when the piece was introduced at the end of the 1970s. Weird that this one is still around.

I'm surprised LEGO didn't take the opportunity to modernise this piece when they introduced the new stretcher piece.

Internationally, engines don't have "low" roller doors, so I can imagine LEGO sticks with taller versions. But I do agree that we need more variation. Perhaps a new system that more faithfully simulates door actually rolling up.

There's this part, but I realise that does not capture the look of typical US fire engines.

I too am surpised we haven't at least seen a typical US and European fire fighter in the CMF range, while we've had a typical US motorcycle cop and British Bobby, for example.

It's surprising that LEGO is still using this style of helmet, whereas fire departments in Europe have long switched to these kind of helmets. I suppose the classic fire helmets are easily recognisable though.

Adding to the list, I'm surprised the roller doors have not been updated since the early 1980s. They were designed for bays with 4-wide fire engines and have flimsy connections between sections. A 10 or 12-wide version seems much more appropriate for today's 6+-wide fire engines. Also, the sections would look a lot better if they were taller.

 

Also, there is virtually no rescue equipment available. Vehicle extraction using hand axes...?

I agree totally with you guys that updates are required in the City Fire theme and like both your suggestions.

1) Although their is a single airtank available and used for Lego divers, its not suitable for the firefighters theme as the tank is upside down for a start and has big air tubes like BA sets from the 60's so new mould definitely required.

2) on the locker roller shutter, I like Sasbury's  idea of a 2 wide locker shutter but I would like to see a 4 wide with 2 or 3 high shutter, for above the wheel arch.

3) Yip the helmet is long overdue an update. I was happy when a yellow version of 3834 came out in the mixel series 8 so I got a load of these to make my fiefighters look more British.

4) As Rick says, the appliance bay doors are no longer suitable as I can barely get my 6 wide engines through the doors when you take into account wing mirrors etc.

5) Would love to see what they would come up with for Hydraulic Rescue Eqpt

And last but not least, a CMF firefighter is long overdue. But based on which Firefighter. IMO it would probably be on a FDNY 'The Bravest' Iconic firefighter.

 

[Digger of Bricks]

2 hours ago, scottwb2010 said:

And last but not least, a CMF firefighter is long overdue. But based on which Firefighter. IMO it would probably be on a FDNY 'The Bravest' Iconic firefighter.

Agreed, as I'm surprised that we haven't seen any sort of iteration of that archetype yet. I mean, I believe the Collectible Minifigure line has at least three iterations of police officers within the theme so far, but not one firefighter. 

Now I could say that the premiere introduction of a firefighter CMF could give us some of those updated parts (air tank, helmet, etc.), but from the way it looks, we might not see a "regular" Collectable Minifigure Series until September 2019 at the earliest. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Digger of Bricks

[sasbury]

Great responses.

Here are a couple of examples why Lego fire builders say lift doors are needed in both 4-tall and 2-tall versions.

I've included both American and European trucks.

21 minutes ago, Blk69 said:

Great list.  Hope someone at Lego gets hold of this and explores the possibilities.  On the off chance they do, would like to submit a few more ideas for consideration.

1) Here in the US, some fire engines are a lime-yellow color.  Might be fun to get a new fire truck in this color.  Would be nice if the fire fighters came with lime-yellow hats and equipment too.  Maybe this could be a special unit fire/rescue squad.  Good possibilities on expanding this idea into some really interesting sets.  Hopefully costs for this would be minimal as basically just a color change in bricks.

2) High probability the next Fire Station set will come with a simple helicopter.  I don't have anything against them, my kids love them.  Would be nice if the build could be a 2-1 helicopter and boat.  Would be something fun for the kids and those of us with a large helicopter fleet could add to our boat collection.  Just an idea.

Love the fire sets.  

Great ideas. Someone at Lego once told me that they won't do lime fire trucks because kids think fire trucks are only red and won't buy ones that aren't red. I'm not completely sure that's true. The obvious solution is an airport fire truck, which are most commonly lime green.

As for the boat set, I think a fireboat headquarters would be awesome and provide a new direction for the theme. They could also do a heliport base. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by sasbury

[CastleBeachFire]

On 12/28/2017 at 10:02 PM, sasbury said:

Dear Lego,

We know you design sets in advance, and it's very likely we'll see another lineup of fire sets for city. In conversations with other Lego fire builders, we humbly submit 5 requests regarding that theme. Thank you, in advance, for your consideration.

1. It's time for a new air tank mold.

The double-airtank Lego mold is now 40 years old and inaccurate. It's probably time for an update. Firefighters in the United States (and around the world) use airtanks that are a single tank, not a double tank. See this photo

 

2. It's time for a more modern stretcher (Stokes basket).

The Lego stretcher piece is from WWI. We're now 100 years past that technology.

We'd really appreciate a Stokes basket piece.

3. We're desperate for lift doors in sizes other than just 4-tall. A 2-studs-tall (4 wide) version would be awesome.

Also, we need them in red. The ones on Bricklink are going for $25+ EACH!

4. We'd like a 6-wide windscreen piece that's not sloped. This part – but in a 6-wide version.

5. This one is optional, but would be awesome. How about yellow printing on a black helmet? This is the standard helmet for firefighters in much of the U.S.

One way to address this would be to release a collectable American firefighter minifig. It's strange that in all the collectible minifigs, there isn't a firefighter.

Thank you for reading this and considering these requests.

-Steven Asbury (and members of the Lego fire community)

 

 

 

 

This would be really awesome! I do hope that Lego listens! By the way, I just replied to your email :)

[pinioncorp]

While I think your requests here aren't unreasonable, and their introduction would be welcome, I do have to say:

 

Sheesh, what a bunch of whingeing. None of the Lego fan communities have exactly what they need, there's always compromises to be had. Town group need architectual elements, train guys want wheels, sculptors want curved slopes, technic builders want connectors and cogs, spacers want cockpit canopies. Part of the challenge of Lego is doing the best you can with what you have.

 

The fact that you have a stretcher piece at all is incredible, who cares what shape it is, it's recognisable. The window pieces won't please everyone so be creative with your interpretation. And as far as air tanks and helmets go, I'd much rather the introduction of a generic piece that can be used by all rather than a single use specific part.

 

[sasbury]

10 hours ago, pinioncorp said:

Sheesh, what a bunch of whingeing. (snipped) The fact that you have a stretcher piece at all is incredible, who cares what shape it is, it's recognisable. The window pieces won't please everyone so be creative with your interpretation. And as far as air tanks and helmets go, I'd much rather the introduction of a generic piece that can be used by all rather than a single use specific part.

 

Perhaps I should have phrased it better.

I think what I – and others – are trying to say is Lego is awesome, and the fire sets have been awesome. We have some ideas to make them even better – and expand the creative options.

I'm a designer, and I'm also a business owner. I think most of what I do in my work is fairly great, but I recognize there is room for improvement. One of the things that makes my work better is feedback from my customers. And I appreciate that feedback when it's constructive. It makes my business and my work better.

I have to believe that Lego takes that same approach. I know some of the designers at Lego, and they are brilliant designers and kind people. I like to think they appreciate constructive feedback. If Lego didn't appreciate customer feedback, they wouldn't have started Lego Ideas.

Should we work within the existing parts? Absolutely. Is there room for new parts and new ideas? Absolutely. And I like to believe Lego appreciates the discussion as long as it stays constructive (pun intended).

 

[koalayummies]

While I always welcome new piece designs I also agree with Pinioncorp (and all these great MOCs) that finding a solution with existing pieces is preferable to hoping for Lego to cater to ones desires. 

So perhaps some Fire/EMT MOC inspiration is in order because who knows how long you'll be waiting. A number of these are Eurobricks members, included links to the threads they are in. There are a number of threads with great ideas on refreshing/updating/improving and expanding the fire sets, vehicles and equipment.

In a town/city its more of this type of stretcher in use with ambulances over that rescue basket (which would be good for the jungle/snow/exploration or the air rescue sets):

Here's a good stretcher from Flickr user Ryan Ziegelbauer, lots more available googling 'lego stretcher':

Eurobricks Farnheim:

Jaws of life can be brick-built as opposed to a new single-use tool mould. Here's a good one from Emilstorm:

And another from Lightningtiger:

Regarding the windows, modern pumpers like Seagrave Marauder still have have a slight angle to the windshield. Have seen great results bumping from 6-wide to 8-wide using two four wide windscreens. Even the six wide still look fantastic, here's a good one in the same thread from LucasLaughing:

So there are lots of creative ways to achieve the look of stuff that lacks an official Lego single-use part.

[Digger of Bricks]

4 hours ago, sasbury said:

Should we work within the existing parts? Absolutely. Is there room for new parts and new ideas? Absolutely. And I like to believe Lego appreciates the discussion as long as it stays constructive (pun intended).

I can definitely agree that purist solutions to particular shortcomings with Lego's inventory can be much more fascinating than new molds at times; but, Lego does introduce plenty of new minifigure accessory molds each year, and unfortunately most go toward very specific molds for licensed themes or "big bang" in-house themes (a.k.a. Ninjago and Nexo Knights). With the latter though, Lego can find ways to reuse those molds since they aren't restricted to a particular license, but more offer than not, it seems they don't. 

So the bottom line is, Lego could focus more of their yearly allowance towards more universal, archetypical molds, but it seems to instead be eaten by much more specialized, stylized ones for other themes.

[sasbury]

On 12/28/2017 at 11:47 PM, Rick said:

Adding to the list, I'm surprised the roller doors have not been updated since the early 1980s. They were designed for bays with 4-wide fire engines and have flimsy connections between sections. A 10 or 12-wide version seems much more appropriate for today's 6+-wide fire engines. Also, the sections would look a lot better if they were taller.

Good point. Yes, the garage doors no longer fit Lego's standard of 6-wide vehicles. Many of Lego's own sets don't fit in those garages. I'm surprised they haven't updated that part. Hopefully they will!

[scottwb2010]

On 12/29/2017 at 1:38 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Agreed, as I'm surprised that we haven't seen any sort of iteration of that archetype yet. I mean, I believe the Collectible Minifigure line has at least three iterations of police officers within the theme so far, but not one firefighter. 

Now I could say that the premiere introduction of a firefighter CMF could give us some of those updated parts (air tank, helmet, etc.), but from the way it looks, we might not see a "regular" Collectable Minifigure Series until September 2019 at the earliest. 

Looks like we will have to wait a bit longer for a Firefighter CMF as not in the leak list of series 18. 

[coghilla]

A good list. I’d support roller door updates and locker doors. But I think we need three or two wide (still 4high) parts.