January 10, 20187 yr 1 hour ago, Doug72 said: Thanks for the comments - its a difficult build and learning process. Everything is learning process in whole life, actually we have to educate us whole life long and every process is hard like some bumpy ride that lasts as long as we do
January 10, 20187 yr 4 hours ago, Doug72 said: Thanks for the comments - its a difficult build and learning process. I find your comments about 3 post confusing !!! Almost stopped any further work on this MOC. Post 1 Mobile Dockside Crane Post 2 Outriggers, posted seperatley as wanted to reach a wider range of veiwers to obtain help, which was quicky provided allowing progress with the build. Post 3 where ?????? If you are refering to the mobile ship loader converyor that was an seperate topic and MOC which is now dis-assembed to allow buiding this MOC. It also had unresloved issues with steering but was a good learning curve as it allowed me to not hit as many dead ends during this build especially with the steering. Ohh, I thought this was the same. Sorry.
January 10, 20187 yr Author 38 minutes ago, Aventador2004 said: Ohh, I thought this was the same. Sorry. A mobile Dockside CRANE uses a rope hoist to lift cargoes on & off a ship. A mobile ship loader CONVEYOR generally can only load a ship. ====================================== Outriggers now installed to raise & lower legs in unison using one M motor. Outriggers based on a design suggested by mocbuild101 as shown in Outrigger HELP post. Swinging in & out for each leg is by hand. Took a while to get a decent speed & at same time still have protection for over travel using a 24T clutch gear in addition to small L.A. internal clutches. Underside view: Close up of drive path: Edited January 10, 20187 yr by Doug72 Image file names removed.
January 12, 20187 yr Author Not really happy with the "X" outrigger layout - now working on an alternative and open to ideas. Slewing arrangment sorted - the 12T gear gives a nice steady rotation. Started work on the crane tower
January 12, 20187 yr 2 hours ago, Doug72 said: Not really happy with the "X" outrigger layout - now working on an alternative and open to ideas. Why? Is there something wrong with it? It seems pretty nice. A quick and obvious idea is 42009-style outriggers. Edited January 12, 20187 yr by BrickbyBrickTechnic
January 12, 20187 yr Author 2 minutes ago, BrickbyBrickTechnic said: Why? Is there something wrong with it? It seems pretty nice. A quick and obvious idea is 42009-style outriggers. It works fine raising and lowering the legs, red seems a bit bright, might change it to dark grey. I had a look at the 42009 outriggers but they take up a lot of space and would need an undercarriage re-build. I been looking at the new rack with housing and have come up with a compact version with both functions power driven. When tested I will put it in the Outrigger topic as could be useful to other MOCs.
January 14, 20187 yr Author Now building the upper rotating structure with the lower section of tower. The rotating frame is supported on curved gear racks using double wedge wheels at 4 cardinal points (N,S,E,W) plus two more at SW & SE to take the weight of the jib. Slewing tested and runs very smoothly. Overall view: Machinery space: Slewing hoisting & pull back cylinder motors installed plus a large battery box. Pull back cylinder for luffing the jib, hopefully the L motor will be strong enough for this. Final position (height) of this to be determined once build and connect to the jib. Pull back cylinder drive unit built into tower structure & driven by L motor. Edited January 14, 20187 yr by Doug72 image file text removed
January 14, 20187 yr Looks excellent so far I assume you'll find a way to cover up all those motors or at least integrate them into some sort of detail?
January 14, 20187 yr Author 6 hours ago, BrickbyBrickTechnic said: Looks excellent so far I assume you'll find a way to cover up all those motors or at least integrate them into some sort of detail? All the mechanics in the rotating structure will be hidden by the machinery housing.Aesthetics is not my strong point. I am happy with the turntable arrangement which gives very good support for the heavy top works. The two steering motors will probably be disguised as compressed air tanks. Begining to more resemble the Kone Crane so I may yet change the build to replicate that. The linear outriggers look better and the wheel arrangment is interesting with one pair of caster wheels the other pair with twin axles also on a caster steering unit. Have a solution for outriggers back to back without any offset and would leave more space in middle of under carriage to locate motors etc. with the turntable gear ring mounted in same manner. The box like structure should be easier to replicate and battery box can be hidden in the red housing and act as a counterweight. Wish I had spotted it before. Edited January 14, 20187 yr by Doug72
January 15, 20187 yr Author For a long time I wanted to use the new gear racks with housing on a crane build, now achieved. Combine Unit: Caster and Outrigger Unit. This forms one half of a back to back combined unit for one end of the crane undercarriage. Have now managed to combine the caster unit with an outrigger. Quite a struggle getting all components into place especially the drive to extend / retract the outrigger gear rack. The linear clutch is fitted to protect drive system & ensure all four outriggers extend / retract fully using one motor. The other end to be designed so each a caster unit has a bogie wheel arrangement which will be steered but not driven and be combined with the outriggers. All inputs will be driven by M motors with remote control for drive & steering function and PF switches for the two outriggers functions. The hardest part of this build was getting the drive to the gear rack without fouling the caster unit wheels. The red gear rack housing has few mounting holes and has a 1/2L problem. See images. Blue input: raise / lower outrigger leg. Yellow: Extend / retract outrigger arm. Note unused UJ for other side unit. Red input: drive to caster unit wheels. Yellow axle: 360 deg. caster steering. General view: Topside view: Underside view: with outrigger arm extended. Side view with outrigger arm retracted: Edited January 15, 20187 yr by Doug72
January 15, 20187 yr I'm enjoying this build quite a lot. I drive through a few of these cranes everyday and I've wanted to build one for a long time. I'm glad to see such a skilled and creative builder as yourself building one. Looking forward to the final result
January 16, 20187 yr Author 9 hours ago, jotta93 said: I'm enjoying this build quite a lot. I drive through a few of these cranes everyday and I've wanted to build one for a long time. I'm glad to see such a skilled and creative builder as yourself building one. Looking forward to the final result Thanks for your comments. I have settled on building the Kone Quaymate 50T Mobile harbour Crane, as per previous diagram. Have yet to test if a steered un-power bogie caster unit will work, if not it will be a four caster wheel set up as per original under carriage. Should be able to modify the existing under carriage to mount the linear outriggers at each end. Biggest task is to work out new drive paths for all the functions so they don't block each other. I find the most enjoyable part of using Lego Techic is problem solving and devising new ways to achieve results. The various new connectors make things easier now.
January 16, 20187 yr 12 minutes ago, Doug72 said: .. Have yet to test if a steered un-power bogie caster unit will work, if not it will be a four caster wheel set up as per original under carriage. ... I find the most enjoyable part of using Lego Techic is problem solving and devising new ways to achieve results. .... I enjoy your topic as well. It is nice to see the evolution of your creation and it reminds me of my build process: At times, when you take one step forward at two backwards, it feels like it might be impossible to complete it and then suddenly a eureka moment makes the build leap forwards. I'm very curious how this one will turn out. About a caster wheel: I have tried my hand at caster wheels in Technic while building a Mindstorms robot and the result where not that great. The distance between the wheel axle and the rotational axis of the caster need to be quite large (at least 3 studs in my experience) for a smooth operation. This means that it can be quite tricky to build a caster bogie which compact and rigid enough.
January 16, 20187 yr Author 2 hours ago, Cumulonimbus said: I enjoy your topic as well. It is nice to see the evolution of your creation and it reminds me of my build process: At times, when you take one step forward at two backwards, it feels like it might be impossible to complete it and then suddenly a eureka moment makes the build leap forwards. I'm very curious how this one will turn out. About a caster wheel: I have tried my hand at caster wheels in Technic while building a Mindstorms robot and the result where not that great. The distance between the wheel axle and the rotational axis of the caster need to be quite large (at least 3 studs in my experience) for a smooth operation. This means that it can be quite tricky to build a caster bogie which compact and rigid enough. Thanks for your comments, Re Caster bogie unit: thanks for info about this - I had made a quick test rig but even though each wheel can rotate indepentently they still scuff when turning so will keep with the four caster units. Edit The four caster unit I finally came up with are working well in the various steering modes so will use this. Just have to out the attachments points for outriggers and the drive to the support legs. The actual Kone crane has 3 axles but only one driven and two steered which is odd, presume the whole bogie caster can turn not each axle. Found a video of the larger cranes in this series but they have multilpe caster sets, can,t find one that shows the 3 axle version. Re eureka moments: I often when "semi" watching TV have a tray with lego parts and try out various ideas, thats how the caster units & outriggers evolved. Doug Edited January 16, 20187 yr by Doug72
January 16, 20187 yr So far what I see a huge moc... -i like your solution for Combine Unit (Caster and Outrigger Unit)
January 16, 20187 yr Author 1 hour ago, I_Igor said: So far what I see a huge moc... -i like your solution for Combine Unit (Caster and Outrigger Unit) Its just got slightly wider by 3L - the overhang of outriggers outside of the under carriage was to much even when retracted. So under carriage widened and have re-built one end unit, with two caster units plus steering motor and two outriggers. The red rack houses helps stiffen the chassis and now more space to put the various drives in for the two outriggers. Its not possible to have a straight drive to the 1L worm gear for the rack as the 12T single bevel gears would foul the red housing, hence the offset with linear clutch. Edited January 16, 20187 yr by Doug72
January 17, 20187 yr Author 2 hours ago, I_Igor said: It looks good IMHO Thanks - was begining to think its getting too wide. That's an end view and the wheels are positioned for sideways movement. The drive to lower / raise the support legs had to go over the frame to avoid the drives for steering & wheels. Have come up with a solution going over the top which also allows for 5 x 11 panels to form the platform on top of the under carriage. Steering motor now centrally placed. Now to dupliacte it for the other end ! Edited January 17, 20187 yr by Doug72
January 17, 20187 yr 3 minutes ago, Doug72 said: Thanks - was begining to think its getting too wide. That's an end view and the wheels are positioned for sideways movement. The drive to lower / raise the support legs had to over the frame to avoid the drives for steering & wheels. Have come up with a solution going over the top which also allows for 5 x 11 panels to form the platform on top of the under carriage. Steering motor now centrally placed. Now to dupliacte it for the other end ! It is very good solution, so you can make whole construction above them. Using panels is smart - they are light, stable and have no holes . you know how it is said - end well, all well
January 17, 20187 yr Author 2 hours ago, I_Igor said: Using panels is smart - they are light, stable and have no holes . They also have some very useful holes that allow an axle to pass through out of sight.
January 17, 20187 yr 47 minutes ago, Doug72 said: They also have some very useful holes that allow an axle to pass through out of sight. Perhaps I should say no unnecessary holes
January 18, 20187 yr Author 5 hours ago, BrickbyBrickTechnic said: Very elegant outriggers looks like they'll work for sure! Thanks - tested and able to just lift wheels off the ground but don't expect they will lift the completed MOC. Need to extend the support feet a bit more to give more lift. I see that rack housing now available in light grey but too pricey at the moment and not readilly available in UK. The size of the MOC is determined by the two outriggers back to back. Goldilocks syndrome at work on undercarriage !! Version 1 - caster unit 17L apart which too small & outriggers overhang far too much Version 2 - caster units 25L apart which too large Version 3 - caster units 21L apart which is just right with outriggers overhang just right. Version 3 now building & making improvements to connections and get a uniform colour scheme. The caster units will be on a 21L x 29L centres. Outriggers - have suggested to Jim that the seperate topic I made should become a thread so others can post their ideas, solutions etc. Edited January 18, 20187 yr by Doug72
January 20, 20187 yr Author Now re-built one end of the undercarriage:- Two outriggers fitted along with L motor for driving all four caster units, M motor for steering one pair of caster units and M motor for outriggers extend / retract. Despite a lot of room in the undercarriage it has proved very difficult to get all the drives to various functions without conflict, especially the drive for raising & lowering the outriggers legs. I hope to use one M motor to operate all four support legs in unison. Slewing gear ring required new mounting locations but is still supported at 8 points OK. More stiffening required to prevent undercarriage from sagging in the middle. Once satisfied all works OK the other end will be re-built. A rail mounted portal crane would have much easier to build !! General topside view: Close up the sliding RED 8T gear which is driven by a 2L worm gear. Drive to extend & retract outriggers - this will operate all four outriggers once other end built. Other caster units & outriggers now installed and tested. Drive & steering all OK Opps - tested all four outriggers together but found at one end they extend but the other end they retract !!! A quick re-positioning of a 12T DB gear fixed it so all four now extend & retract in unison. If any outrigger gets out of step it can be fixed by keeping drive motor running to move arms to full out or full in. The linear clutches them slip as each arm reaches its end travel while the out of step arms continous moving until it reaches its end travel. Edited January 20, 20187 yr by Doug72
January 22, 20187 yr Author Under carriage complete - apart from mounting PF recivers. All five motors are now installed on underside, which meant shifting some of them to give space for the battery box with alterations to various dives & gearing. Hardest to fit was the drive to the outrigger support legs. I had to devise a way of getting past other drive axles & pass up through the under carriage. I came up with two back to back LEGO Beam 3m Ø4.85 with fork (87408) to squeeze through a 1L gap - see image below. I had hoped to fit two PF receivers onto the top side but the underside of the rotating structure will foul them. I will either have to raise the turntable gear ring or modify the rotating base to get enough clearance. This build has been very useful in developing new ways to overcome the many problems. ie. outriggers deployment & caster steering / drive units. The under carriage has ended up being far larger than first envisaged and is taking up a lot of space !!! I I intend to continue with this build as a technical build and have decided the aesthetics will be minimal. Some of the solutions will come in very useful for any future MOCs which will use a simpler form of outriggers that take up less space !! I already have an idea for a future MOC. Top view: Underside view: L = drive to all four caster unit wheels via a central differential. M1 = steering to caster units C1 & C2 M2 = steering to caster units C3 & C4 M3 - drive to outrigger raise & lower support legs. M4 = drive to outrigger extend & retract arms. C1 to C4 = caster steering & drive units. M3 & M4 manually via two PF switches. L, M1 & M2 remotely. The build continue upwards & I may re-use the jib from my TC8 tower crane to finish the build, my spare parts are running low. Edited January 22, 20187 yr by Doug72
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