42082 - Rough Terrain Crane

[Ngoc Nguyen]

11 minutes ago, suffocation said:

or there could be a coaxial solution

What would this solution look like?

[suffocation]

The motor could be in the substructure - think 8043 but in reverse. Of course, this solution would be needlessly complex, so I think it's more likely the coaxial shaft is derived from the superstructure.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Well I don't think the transmission would be an issue if the motor is in the undercarriage. Just need to route one axle from the undercarriage to the superstructure, since only one function can be selected at a time in the superstructure. Meanwhile, rotating the superstructure and extending outriggers can be done right in the undercarriage.

The problem would be the wire. In 42009 and 42042 the motors are in the superstructure and the wires are barely long enough to connect to the battery boxes. If the motor is in the undercarriage it's the wiring that gets needlessly complex.

[1gor]

i think that motor and BB would be i undercarriage simply because of stability and weight distribution. Don't forget that crane is also relatively heavy 

...and to put BB in superstructure could result in turning limitations, so at least IMHO both motor and BB should be on same segment

[Bartybum]

2 hours ago, I_Igor said:

...and to put BB in superstructure could result in turning limitations

I’d tend to disagree on that point. You’d want the motor and hence BB to both be located closest to the majority of functions, in this case in the superstructure. That way you have less gear reductions and therefore friction. Plus, since we know the boom is gonna be a long one, you want a suitable counterweight i.e. a BB!

The outriggers are already there to stabilise the crane when operating.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Bartybum

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Yeah I also think motor and BB should be in the superstructure to serve as counterweights.

[Maaboo the Witch]

11 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Yeah I also think motor and BB should be in the superstructure to serve as counterweights.

Sounds logical.

[1gor]

48 minutes ago, Bartybum said:

I’d tend to disagree on that point. You’d want the motor and hence BB to both be located closest to the majority of functions, in this case in the superstructure. That way you have less gear reductions and therefore friction. Plus, since we know the boom is gonna be a long one, you want a suitable counterweight i.e. a BB!

The outriggers are already there to stabilise the crane when operating.

Usually real cranes are able to make 360 degrees turn, so to achieve that It should have it in undercarriage but as a counterweight it could also be used on superstructure. My concern is that in comparison to crane length, chassis is relatively small and this could be a stability problem at some point 

[Bartybum]

16 minutes ago, I_Igor said:

Usually real cranes are able to make 360 degrees turn, so to achieve that It should have it in undercarriage

Not necessarily. If the BWE ring is fixed to the undercarriage then you can have a gear from the superstructure that moves around the inside of the ring to rotate the superstructure.

My bet is that the set uses precisely that, along with some small rollers on the top of the ring keeping the superstructure level.

It probably uses a system similar to 42009 i.e. a single axle through a turntable, that then acts as the input to the outriggers.

I’m sure stability won’t be a problem.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Bartybum

[1gor]

@Bartybum, could be; ironically I have used 42009 undercarriage as reference for stability, but totally forgot on solution that you mentioned. 

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Since outriggers and rotation are motorized there must be two switches in the undercarriage. I don't think these two functions should be changed simultaneously, so I think one switch will change the direction, and one switch will change the function.

[arijitdas]

All these discussions are only making this set more attractive to me. However, the price will be the final deciding factor. Or I shall have to wait till 2019 when there are more discounts on this set. 

[Ngoc Nguyen]

The price is 229.99 EUR

[Maaboo the Witch]

19 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

The price is 229.99 EUR

Aaaargh!

[arijitdas]

27 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

The price is 229.99 EUR

That's around the same price as the BWE. I think that's pretty reasonable. But unfortunately I shall have to source it from somewhere in Europe/Singapore since the Logo products are priced insanely in India. For instance, the Mack Anthem has a sticker price of 308 EUR in India. However, I plan to buy the ANthem from Singapore during my next visit.

[Maaboo the Witch]

I was just having a laugh.  I actually think the price is reasonable for roughly 4000 parts.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Nah, the reasonable price for a 4000 pcs set is 160 - 170 EUR, which you can get on amazon.de 1 year after 42082 has been released and right before the next flagship is released, just as how I got 2 BWEs for that price.

For some reason amazon.de can afford crazy discounts. I do feel like cheating TLG off a piece of their profit, but I just can't help it.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Ngoc Nguyen

[arijitdas]

29 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Nah, the reasonable price for a 4000 pcs set is 160 - 170 EUR, which you can get on amazon.de 1 year after 42082 has been released and right before the next flagship is released, just as how I got 2 BWEs for that price.

For some reason amazon.de can afford crazy discounts. I do feel like cheating TLG off a piece of their profit, but I just can't help it.

I agree with every bit of what you have said - my theory is way pay more for something when I know that the prices are going to fall later.

Sorry for wading a little off topic but does anyone know if amazon.de ship internationally (say for example ship to India) ?

[Jaromir]

2 hours ago, arijitdas said:

I agree with every bit of what you have said - my theory is way pay more for something when I know that the prices are going to fall later.

Sorry for wading a little off topic but does anyone know if amazon.de ship internationally (say for example ship to India) ?

For sure Amazon ships to other European countries, as I have ordered from Amazon UK to Poland. I think there should be no problem, but no promises :). You can always try to order something and then cancel, you will se if you can choose India :) 

[kolbjha]

10 hours ago, arijitdas said:

That's around the same price as the BWE. I think that's pretty reasonable. But unfortunately I shall have to source it from somewhere in Europe/Singapore since the Logo products are priced insanely in India. For instance, the Mack Anthem has a sticker price of 308 EUR in India. However, I plan to buy the ANthem from Singapore during my next visit.

308 EUR for 42078 in India?!! Sorry for being a bit off topic, but unless the reason is high taxes/import toll for Lego in India, it sounds like a unused business potential.

Edited April 16, 2018 by kolbjha

[arijitdas]

12 hours ago, kolbjha said:

308 EUR for 42078 in India?!! Sorry for being a bit off topic, but unless the reason is high taxes/import toll for Lego in India, it sounds like a unused business potential.

Yes I might post a new topic on this issue sometime later.

Coming back to the topic, wondering when will we get a glimpse/clear pictures of this set ?

 

[Jaromir]

59 minutes ago, arijitdas said:

Yes I might post a new topic on this issue sometime later.

Coming back to the topic, wondering when will we get a glimpse/clear pictures of this set ?

 

I believe it will be around June...

[Bublehead]

I think the large PF motor is the bomb when building high torque devices. My Twirl & Hurl amusement ride uses one large PF motor, and it drives the outriggers in and out, up and down, raises and lowers the platform (48 5x11 panels with inter-woven LA to make up the side of a semi trailer which unfolds to become the ride's loading platform) and it deploys and stows the ride's cars using pneumatics WHILE lifting the platform using winches at all four corners... So building a crane that works better than the 42009 should not be a problem.  I hope this set has the guts we all are hoping it does, but sadly, I'm not that optimistic with Lego's future looking a little grim right now. Sales are off, TRU is closing, and kids are not playing with real toys as much as they are playing with virtual ones. I will buy this set because it is red. If you have seen the Twirl and Hurl, you will understand why :)

[Ngoc Nguyen]

At least we won't have to worry jerky flimsy wobbly outriggers this time I guess, because they are one-stage only. I still can't get the outriggers in my 42009 to work properly.

[Bublehead]

I was faced with wanting to use the same outriggers from 42009 or design new ones for my MOC. I opted for a new design. Now mine work well enough as a two stage set, and because I used a worm gear to drive the final rack of 8 toothed gears that turns the frictionless red 8 tooth that the 42009 uses which rides on the 16L axle, the large PF motor can easily load up the outriggers and put a huge load on them, almost enough to lift the whole thing off the ground. Even with dead batteries, I can get the linear actuators to click when retracted fully. I accomplished this by gearing down the motor as it enters the transmission by a factor of 4 to 1, then gearing it back up by 3 to 1 as I send the power to the outriggers at 8 to 1 back down. This gives me the least amount of friction in the transmission and maximizes the load carrying the outriggers can lift. I felt the 42009 design had no load lifting capability and I needed mine to actually stabilize my platform and take a large load. So remember that speed is not always your friend when in a high friction / high torque application. (And yes, my outriggers take a while to deploy but not nearly as long as it takes the huge Midway sign to raise 17 studs into the sky). Happy Building.

BH

Edited April 19, 2018 by Bublehead