Bionicle 2001 and beyond: An essay of personal thoughts.

[Heir of the Chronicler]

Aye, me, th' mask-melter :-D

Been 'round here a while. Jus' not under this name.

[Ikki o' Moopyville]

Glad to see yer back 'ere, mate!

Goin back to the disussion about silly story / characters, I have to admit BL10 was a huge improvement over BL9, in both that respect and plenty others -- compared to the incessant dogfights in the skies with little or no progress, BL10 had a bunch of nice perspective, a minimum of cheesy lines, and a mood that actually fits a story's end; a feeling of almost hopelessness, rather then happy-go-lucky jumping around in SoS.

An' creating an' expanding your own Bionicle story is one of the most fun aspects of the entire line!

-Ikk

[Zarkan]

Goin back to the disussion about silly story / characters, I have to admit BL10 was a huge improvement over BL9, in both that respect and plenty others -- compared to the incessant dogfights in the skies with little or no progress, BL10 had a bunch of nice perspective, a minimum of cheesy lines, and a mood that actually fits a story's end; a feeling of almost hopelessness, rather then happy-go-lucky jumping around in SoS.

Totally agree. I liked Shadows in the Sky, but Swamp of Secrets was far better. I loved the characterization of the Nuva in that book - it really shows how they've been through a lot and have a really solemn and wise perspective on the whole universe, which would be expected after all the battles they've been through. The Makuta also had some great lines - especially Krika, who is easily my favorite Makuta other than Teridax aka "THE MAKUTA."

An' creating an' expanding your own Bionicle story is one of the most fun aspects of the entire line!

Indeed. While I like following the actual storyline, I also have a bunch of ideas for alternate universes that are created in tandem with new MOC's. It's no different than what fans of other toys and sagas do.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Grevious

[VBBN]

Aye, me, th' mask-melter :-D

Been 'round here a while. Jus' not under this name.

Good to have you here!

[Dovchenko]

I couldn't disagree more. Personally, I love all the Bionicle Adventure and Legend books. They have a great mix of action, dialogue, characters, and even some mystery. The MNOG on the other hand was mostly just the "asking questions and getting answers" variety, without much personality. Except for the cutscenes, which I agree were AWESOME.

We give him a lot of credit because he basically writes all the bionicle books and comics (which is a big job), plus he willingly answers all our questions on BZP - which amounts to hundreds a day. I'd like to see you try to do that.

Good points, I'll admit that. (venemous comments sure seem nicer with a wink ) But honestly, hasn't Bionicle ever bugged you?

I adored it like you do up until 2007. I loved 2006 and the story, but 2007 was a joke in my opinion. 2008? I didn't even try. It might make you happy to hear that I'm buying one or two of the REALLY, REALLY old sets... 2001/2002. I'll find something or another...

[Heir of the Chronicler]

Thats funny... I found it *impossible* to take the '06 storyline seriously in the least :-P

And, meh. At least the MNOLGs "talk to this person, go get that" gameplay was involving, if simple. And Templar did a superb job on portraying the world - something not even the movies have truly been able to do since.

- Heir

[hewkii9]

I adored it like you do up until 2007. I loved 2006 and the story, but 2007 was a joke in my opinion. 2008? I didn't even try. It might make you happy to hear that I'm buying one or two of the REALLY, REALLY old sets... 2001/2002. I'll find something or another...

The part of 2007 I found ridiculous was the tenuous explanations for everything - The Ignika did this, the Ignika transformed that - and the fact that the Barraki were these supreme ancient dudes who we've never heard of before.

[Zarkan]

The part of 2007 I found ridiculous was the tenuous explanations for everything - The Ignika did this, the Ignika transformed that - and the fact that the Barraki were these supreme ancient dudes who we've never heard of before.

One thing you have to understand is that the Bionicle storyline each year depends on what the sets are. Each year there are new villians, so each year Greg and the team have to fit them into the storyline somehow. That's why they've adopted an approach where the timeline and players in the bionicle universe are revealed slowly. The Order of Mata Nui, for example, wasn't even hinted at until 2005, and it was probably created to have another faction that certain sets and combiners could be a part of.

As for the Ignika, I don't see what's the problem really. I actually like the idea of having a sentinent, extremely powerful mask that PERSONALLY influences the storyline, as it was something that had never been done before in bionicle (the other great masks we've had before were mainly powerless by themselves, and only influenced the storyline by other characters means)

And, meh. At least the MNOLGs "talk to this person, go get that" gameplay was involving, if simple. And Templar did a superb job on portraying the world - something not even the movies have truly been able to do since.

I agree that the actual feel of the MNOLG's world was amazing, but I personally don't like the gameplay that much. It just seems TOO simple, and IMO it needed more interactivity that it had. Still, it was really a work of art.

[Heir of the Chronicler]

Look at it this way; MNOLG II had tons of "gameplay", and what happened? You spent hours gathering seaweed and making flax instead of saving villages and kicking Rahi butt :-P

[Ikki o' Moopyville]

I personally wouldn't have minded some more action in the MNOG -- like, say, a lightstone battle against the Kofo-Jaga or an actual Koli game. Just look at how rockishly awesome the Kahu ride was!

But even without that, the game featured tons and tons of exploration, something that is nearly entirely absent from Bionicle these days. Yes, the Core is a great place, the Codrex is intriguing, but there's so little time to actually run around and check out all these potentially cool things. The Pit, for instance, was a VAST and varied world of its own, completely unique from anything we'd seen before. I would've loved nothing more than a MNOG-style puzzle game in those dark depths. City of the Lost did touch upon some unique elements of the Mahri Nuian Matoran culture, such as the Council and the submarine, but there's still so much down there.

I'd give anything for a tale about the adventures of Lesovikk and Sarda as they traverse the entirety of the Endless Ocean. Well, as long as it's not written by Greg anyway.

-Ikk

[Algernon]

I agree that a little more action would not have hurt MNOLG- with it's sparse distribution it felt a little... random. But I loved how elaborate the Bionicle world was, and the very thought-out cutscenes were great too. The gameplay itself- I won't lie- wasn't amazing. But I did enjoy it more than Bionicle Heroes, and still do to this day. Shame there's not much replay value- I feel like it could be a true masterpiece of Templar Studios had put just a little more time and energy into it. There are a lot of games like that.

In short, I absolutely agree that MNOLG captured the Bionicle world in a way that no LEGO theme has ever attempted since, Bionicle included. Before MNOLG I really just thought of Bionicle as upgraded Throwbots- which was enough for me to snatch them all up- but with MNOLG, the music CDs, and the free software it became something entirely different. 2002 wasn't so bad, but from 2003 onward I feel like it lost that quality. Now it's just stupid. I'm not gonna buy any Bionicle set with "really firing!!" gimmicks attached to them, which probably means I won't be buying any ever again.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Algernon

[Heir of the Chronicler]

Indeed, Alg - because those cheesy gimmicks, which I find truly irritating, sell to hordes of fans who cannot possibly comprehend using "imagination" whilst playing with their sets. Jus' stand 'em up, shoot, an' see who gets knocked over. Oh, the excitement

[Zarkan]

Indeed, Alg - because those cheesy gimmicks, which I find truly irritating, sell to hordes of fans who cannot possibly comprehend using "imagination" whilst playing with their sets. Jus' stand 'em up, shoot, an' see who gets knocked over. Oh, the excitement

Careful now - it's not usually good to over generalize. I see your point though, but I also don't see what's wrong with doing that. Bionicle is made to appeal to KIDS - not mature roleplayers - and most kids enjoy playing more if there's action features. I could say the same thing about the gears in the 2001 Toa: "just flip the arms around and bang them against each other. Oh, the excitement."

From what I've seen with many older Bionicle fans, it's not as much having gimmicks that's the problem as much as having high tech things like guns in Bionicle. I agree that that is getting really old, but this is not a problem exclusive to Bionicle - every major line except City has launchers of some sort, which is a sign of what TLC thinks will sell the sets. And they're probably right.

It's a good thing there's always been a simple solution to the gimmick problem in Bionicle - just take the launcher off. Problem solved... unless you're trying to do that to the 2005 kits, since it doesn't really help the appearance at all.

Look at it this way; MNOLG II had tons of "gameplay", and what happened? You spent hours gathering seaweed and making flax instead of saving villages and kicking Rahi butt :-P

Exactly - that wasn't gameplay either. Also, MNOLG II was plagued with so many glitches that the game was actually unwinnable.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Grevious

[Heir of the Chronicler]

Wrong - three years after it came out, someone *did* find a way to TRICK the game into getting past the major glitch point that had held everyone up. Also, someone else found a "debug mode", and fans have since made great strides in editing the code into something playable. But I still don't like it.

- Heir

[Pencoin]

Well it was win-able when it first came out. It was the re-release that had all the glithcs i belive, but your right there is a wa to bypass it.

[Zarkan]

Wrong - three years after it came out, someone *did* find a way to TRICK the game into getting past the major glitch point that had held everyone up. Also, someone else found a "debug mode", and fans have since made great strides in editing the code into something playable. But I still don't like it.

True, but I was ignoring that because most people had no idea that that was even possible. Unaltered and played as normal, it was impossible to win the game.

[Algernon]

If you're debating about whether or not a game is winnable, you KNOW it sucks.

[Zarkan]

If you're debating about whether or not a game is winnable, you KNOW it sucks.

Also true.

[maiq the liar]

Scenery and world depicted in MNOLG: Mein Leiben

Gameplay: would be mein lieben, but the crippling glitches ruin it. (it harkens back to the simpler days of monkey island and space quest)

[Clonie]

I've won MNOG II, for the record.

[maiq the liar]

Well, i was just reading Bonesii's theory on the nature of protodermis (while waiting for him/Jinzo to email/PM me on whether or not my old BZP account still exists), and i thought of something:

What if the great beings used protodermis in the creation of the toa/turaga/matoran/whatever due to the fact that standard human/animal/plant cells (like that of real life or the animals on mata nui) get destroyed/mutated when exposed to protodermis (I.E The protodermis in metru nui's water supply and oxygen)? either way, it sounds like interesting fanfic fuel. also, it sounds like mata nui could be a human...i imagine if you were 5 inches tall a human would seem to be 700,000 Feet tall...

Edited August 1, 2008 by maiq the liar