[MOC] Liebherr LTM11200 crane

[Aleh]

On 2/1/2019 at 10:51 PM, AFOLegofan66 said:

@AlehI recommend WD40 specialist Dry Lube. Works wonders and does not attract dirt or dust. Over time you might have to reapply.

I know this lube, I use it for my bike. Thaks a lot for the advice!

18 hours ago, nigel1975 said:

Work in progress on a MOD of the ballasts for my Mammoet theme 

Will look forward to your mod with intetest, great job!

[Jeroen Ottens]

Well, I promised to do a longer write up of this model, so here I go.

Somewhere in March last year I decided that I wanted to give the LTM11200 another go after a first attempt in 2013. I knew it was going to be a challenge, but I didn't appreciate just how large this endeavour would become. I have tried to iron out all the flaws of the original model + update it to the newest parts (most notable the use of the new driving rings, but also more subtle partchanges were incorporated). I think I finished converting and updating the digital files I already had from LDD to LDCAD somewhere around the summer last year. I just needed to add the boom and then I would be done. What I expected to be a small task in the end took more time than the (re)design of the rest of the vehicle.

From the get-go the goal was to make all functions work smoothly. And that bar I didn't reach. In the end, especially the boom was just too big and too heavy to handle. I added a special boom loading string setup which is completely not realistic, but did get the job done. Just. There are a lot of forces going through the structure when the boom is lifted. Luckily the structure itself is nearly completely form-locked, which makes it scary, but possible to lift the boom without human help.

Extending the boom proved even more elusive. At first I tried to use the standard gear racks, but the gears just kept skipping. Furthermore the racks needed so much space that the sections themselves became quite low in height. I ditched the racks and invented a new system of 1L beams spaced 2L apart (so that there was one hole inbetween each beam). Using this part: as a 3T gear I could move the brickbuilt gearrack. As a bonus this part made the whole gearrack mechanism self-locked. I used this system in the boom that I made photos of in the summer.

I just needed to connect the axle that went through this part to the axle that was meant to drive boom extension function. And that just didn't work. The force needed to turn that axle was so big that there simply was no solution I could find in LEGO that fitted in the space and was capable of handling all that torque. So it was back to the drawing board again.

I then thought I'd use strings instead of a gearrack to extend the first section (the other sections are also driven by strings). The first mechanism I made just tore apart. The second mechanism tore apart. The third.. well you get the picture. I must have iterated that particular part of the boom at least a dozen times before I had something that could handle the strain.

In order to have some reduction in the extension mechanism I wanted the string to go back and forth a few times around pulleys. In theory that all fitted nicely, but in practice it was nearly impossible to assemble and even if the assembly succeeded the string subsequently got jammed or twisted inside the boom and the whole mechanism locked up.

So in the end I gave up. I only added 2 pulleys in the system, that way it is still possible to assemble the boom, but the XL motor + drivetrain doesn't produce enough torque to extend the boom. Maybe a Buwizz would help, but I wanted to stick to the PF system. It is still possible to extend the boom, but you'll need to manually help to pull the first section out.

One of the things that may not be as pretty, but is very useful in practice is the colourcoding I used on the axles. Since this model has 6 groups of 3 functions it is very difficult to remember which setting of the switchbox will lead to which function. Throughout the model I used red, yellow, grey and black axles.

The red axles are all used for the functions that require a XL motor. In the carrier that are drive and elongating the outriggers. In the superstructure that are rotation of the superstructure, tilting the cabin, extending the boom actuators (for lifting the boom) and extending the boom.
The grey axles are used for the switching functions using a M motor. In the carrier you can switch between two groups of three functions, in the superstructure you can switch between four groups.
The yellow and black axles are used for functions that require an L-motor. In the carrier that are steering, switching steering mode, spread the outriggers and lower the feet of the outriggers. In the superstructure it are all functions not mentioned so far.

The model is relatively easy to split in the three main parts: the carrier, the superstructure and the boom. The boom is attached to the superstructure with just 4 axles. The superstructure is attached to the carrier with just 4 3L pins with bush. Also the extra arms and legs on the boom are only mounted with a few axles that can be taken out easily to remove these parts. Still, setting up this monster is a lot of work. For my first video shooting it took me nearly 3 hours to assemble the model from these three parts, get all the strings wired correctly and get all the elements in the right position. And then I filmed without checking whether my camera showed the full frame or not. As it turned out half of the model was not in the frame, so I have to retake some shots.

All in all I am happy with the model. It is huge, 1.30 m long when in driving configuration, 2.5 m high when fully extended. It can lift a lot, as long as you have a lot of ballast as well (I haven't tried yet how much it can handle). It weighs so much I struggle to transport it through the house. So yes, not all functions work as good as I aspire to. But this really is the edge of what is possible in LEGO Technic I think with the PF system, so I wouldn't know where I could have done anything better.

To my delight people are already modding this model to their own wishes. If you have any questions or want more explanation just let me know. I'll be happy to answer them

Leg godt,

Jeroen

[Blakbird]

Just discovered this model.  Wow!  I thought I had stopped building MOCs but I might have to make an exception.  I haven't done any renders in quite a while, but I'd be willing to give this one a go if you like.  I think we could do some interesting things with perspective and comparing the scale to other models.

[Aleh]

@Jeroen OttensThanks for sharing this amazing story! Really appreciate! Waiting for the video!

I assume I'd have to add the Y-arrangements by myself after I collect all necessary parts :)

[schraubedrin]

I'm in awe of the size and complexity of this model.
There are so many ingenious details!

Until now i didn't understand every part of it, are the ends of the blue 3L pins at the tip of the boom for an extension?
And what are the linear actuators on the boom for?

[Jeroen Ottens]

11 hours ago, Blakbird said:

Just discovered this model.  Wow!  I thought I had stopped building MOCs but I might have to make an exception.  I haven't done any renders in quite a while, but I'd be willing to give this one a go if you like.  I think we could do some interesting things with perspective and comparing the scale to other models.

Thank you for the very generous offer, I've sent you a PM. Be warned though, this thing has 300 gears and even more axles... so that is a lot of part selecting...

9 hours ago, Aleh said:

@Jeroen OttensThanks for sharing this amazing story! Really appreciate! Waiting for the video!

I assume I'd have to add the Y-arrangements by myself after I collect all necessary parts :)

The Y-arrangements are on the boom, or am I misunderstanding you?

7 hours ago, schraubedrin said:

I'm in awe of the size and complexity of this model.
There are so many ingenious details!

Until now i didn't understand every part of it, are the ends of the blue 3L pins at the tip of the boom for an extension?
And what are the linear actuators on the boom for?

The blue pins are indeed for an extension. The idea is that you can place two 5x7 frames there and then lock them into place with 4 3L pins with bush.
The boom has four legs on which it can stand. When the boom is transported separately from the carrier on a separate truck those legs are used to position the boom on the road at the right height. The carrier with superstructure can then drive underneath it and when in the right position the boom can be attached to the superstructure. Once it is attached the legs are lifted again.

[Aleh]

@Jeroen Ottens Or, sorry, they are simply not seen on those pictures. 

[schraubedrin]

3 hours ago, Jeroen Ottens said:

those legs are used to position the boom on the road at the right height

Incredible, that you made this a working detail.

Now i'm really looking forward to the video "WIP LEGO Technic replica of the Liebherr LTM11200 crane, part 3/3" to see the boom in action.

Because with the pictures i can't figure out how this will work, everything seems connected...

[AFOLegofan66]

I am just finishing up this fantastic crane. It is only when you have it all put together that you realize what a marvel it is!!!

[Carsten Svendsen]

I haven't seen this creation until today, because anything that remotely mentions "Tatra" "4x4" "Car" "Mobile Crane" or "Tank" I completely ignore as it's always mostly the same anyway.

Yet, here I am and I must say that this is far from what I expected to see. Now, I'm not in awe just because of it's size as anyone can put together 6000+ pieces for a big model, but I'm in awe of it's complexity and the different way you managed to execute a lot of the functions.

With such a big model also comes a lot of questions - Just this picture alone rises a bunch of them

• What's with the blue 3L pins? there must be a reason as you clearly just could've used normal black pins
• 5L axle with red bushes? Doesn't look that great, 3L axle would've been sufficient seeing as there's a 3L pin holding it together as well
• Whats the 2x red pin with bush used for? It's just sitting there doing nothing
• What's the spring for?
• What is all of this rope stuff doing at the front? It doesn't look like it's got a clear purpose
• And finally, why are those pieces in the middle on an angle?

You need to do a proper showcase for it as well, you know, a video 'cause man, am I ever interested in seeing what you actually crammed in there. Also, even if you wrote a list of the functions, I still don't know what half of them do

Edited February 7, 2019 by Carsten Svendsen

[Jeroen Ottens]

 

1 hour ago, AFOLegofan66 said:

I am just finishing up this fantastic crane. It is only when you have it all put together that you realize what a marvel it is!!!

Thanks for the compliment. If I may ask, how long did it take you build it?

27 minutes ago, Carsten Svendsen said:

I haven't seen this creation until today, because anything that remotely mentions "Tatra" "4x4" "Car" "Mobile Crane" or "Tank" I completely ignore as it's always mostly the same anyway.

Yet, here I am and I must say that this is far from what I expected to see. Now, I'm not in awe just because of it's size as anyone can put together 6000+ pieces for a big model, but I'm in awe of it's complexity and the different way you managed to execute a lot of the functions.

With such a big model also comes a lot of questions - Just this picture alone rises a bunch of them

• What's with the blue 3L pins? there must be a reason as you clearly just could've used normal black pins
• 5L axle with red bushes? Doesn't look that great, 3L axle would've been sufficient seeing as there's a 3L pin holding it together as well
• Whats the 2x red pin with bush used for? It's just sitting there doing nothing
• What's the spring for?
• What is all of this rope stuff doing at the front? It doesn't look like it's got a clear purpose
• And finally, why are those pieces in the middle on an angle?

 

You need to do a proper showcase for it as well, you know, a video 'cause man, am I ever interested in seeing what you actually crammed in there. Also, even if you wrote a list of the functions, I still don't know what half of them do

On 2/6/2019 at 7:39 AM, Jeroen Ottens said:

The blue pins are indeed for an extension. The idea is that you can place two 5x7 frames there and then lock them into place with 4 3L pins with bush.

The 5L axle with red bushes: These are a remainder of a system with elastic bands to help with lifting Y-arrangments. But it didn't work, so I removed the elastic bands, but I forgot to remove the bushes.

The red pin with bushes are there to lock the legs (on which the boom can stand if it isn't attached to the superstructure) in place

The spring is used to keep the folding leg in place

The ropes in the front are a bit untidy, so the loose ends indeed have no purpose. The ropes are part of the system to extend the sections of the boom

Those angled pieces support the gears that drive the extension of the legs

Video is in the works, but it is so much more work than I anticipated that it is taking way longer than I expected.

[cadman]

Oh boy, did swear to my wife that enough was enough, no more Lego Technics. I lied, divorce imminent! So, after a couple of weeks glaring at this MOC i decided to bow to the inevitable and give it a bash. After a very long session on Brick owl I think that I have ordered all the parts, but I have ignored the colours just because that was far to expensive. So I am going to have a mismatch but the fun is in the build. I have 5 Technic sets and have built 2 MOC's, one of them the Grove crane, great fun & challenging. Hope my work bench is big enough, I have enough storage space for all the bits and the post office can cope with all the parcels coming my way.

Thank you for all your efforts in designing this, it beats me how you think up ways to make loads of bits of plastic become an engineering marvel.

Starting to build soon, but first got to disassemble the Grove crane, no mean feat in itself.

Colin

[nigel1975]

Completed the superstructure. Just a couple more days needed to make some MODs on the boom.

IMG_1958 on Flickr

IMG_1966 by on Flickr

Edited February 12, 2019 by nigel1975

[dannydos]

That looks so good!

[Jeroen Ottens]

7 hours ago, nigel1975 said:

Completed the superstructure. Just a couple more days needed to make some MODs on the boom.

 

Wow that looks amazing.  I love the MOD's you are doing on my crane, so I am curious what you come up with for the boom.

[Aleh]

The more interesting and exiting will be the video of the completed model!

[nigel1975]

Today I finished the boom section, making four MODS

i) made the boom one stud higher so that I could run the axles on the inside and thus close the top of the boom with panels

ii) filled the sides of the boom whilst maintaining the axles for lowering the support legs, this has made the boom much sturdier (and a bit heavier)

iii) changed the design of the end of the boom where the pulleys are connected

iv) modified the stabilizer arms to look more in proportion and allow for stickers

 

I also figured out how to link photos to Flickr :-)

 

IMG_1996 on Flickr

IMG_1991 on Flickr

IMG_1985 on Flickr

IMG_1988 on Flickr

Edited February 12, 2019 by nigel1975

[AFOLegofan66]

@Jeroen Ottensit took me about three weeks of assembly. I went all stock with no modifications. The instructions were amazing for such a complex model. I’ll put it all together this week and take some photos. I know it all works well because I’ve tested it every step of the way.

[Jeroen Ottens]

14 hours ago, nigel1975 said:

Today I finished the boom section, making four MODS

i) made the boom one stud higher so that I could run the axles on the inside and thus close the top of the boom with panels

ii) filled the sides of the boom whilst maintaining the axles for lowering the support legs, this has made the boom much sturdier (and a bit heavier)

iii) changed the design of the end of the boom where the pulleys are connected

iv) modified the stabilizer arms to look more in proportion and allow for stickers

 

I also figured out how to link photos to Flickr :-)

 

IMG_1996 on Flickr

IMG_1991 on Flickr

IMG_1985 on Flickr

IMG_1988 on Flickr

Amazing job!

I finally was able to make the video:

 

[nigel1975]

Final photos of erected boom.

IMG_2007on Flickr

IMG_2006 on Flickr

IMG_2020 on Flickr

Edited February 13, 2019 by nigel1975

[WvG_853]

It looks fantastic in black and red ...

[Aleh]

1 hour ago, WvG_853 said:

It looks fantastic in black and red ...

Totally agree! My main bad I've started collected parts in white already (and almost finish). Can't stand beginning my main lego build!

@nigel1975 Would you be so kind to extend the Y-arrangement and make a photo with this wings?

BTW do and sting connected to them??

[pagicence]

I don't get it. @Jeroen Ottens you spent so much time developing this great creation, motorizing it, making sure that all works how it's suppose to, considering all the little thing and whatnot... It's super slow and it still needs help!? I know that is heavy, but is it really that heavy that the motors can barely handle it? What gives?

[nigel1975]

30 minutes ago, pagicence said:

I don't get it. @Jeroen Ottens you spent so much time developing this great creation, motorizing it, making sure that all works how it's suppose to, considering all the little thing and whatnot... It's super slow and it still needs help!? I know that is heavy, but is it really that heavy that the motors can barely handle it? What gives?

I think if we want a fully functional model then we would need to change the objective. One objective here was to use the max 8 channels for the PF IR, so to get all the functionality there is a lot more gears, axles, switches (all adding weight). All these components have to deal with the combined weight of the MOC and there is a lot part strain, gear slippage and/or just not enough torque from the motors. Even if we got more torque I imagine we would only end up destroying axles, universal joints etc. Individually the functions work pretty well e.g. the carrier drive, steering, outriggers work very well until you add all the weight from superstructure and boom.

I think that If we remove the restriction of 8 channels and directly motorize the functions and use 5+ sbricks we would have a good chance of getting a working model. We could also change the turntable to use similar concept to the Lego Rough Terrain Crane, however we would need to change the scale of the model to accommodate the 1/4 circle gear racks. The boom itself would need to loose some weight and I would probably sacrifice the support legs.

I have achieved something like this when I built a MOD version of the crane by Peteria on ReBrickable:

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-7912/peteria/crane-mast-part-3/#photos

Having built several MOC cranes now I can see all the pros and cons of the techniques used and one day hope that I have time to build my own creation (most likely in retirement!)

For anyway attempting this MOC, don't say that Jeroen hasn't warned you of the limitations :-)

 

 

[AFOLegofan66]

I just finished this crane and for sure there are limitations to it’s performance. Jeroen did warn us of this! That said I had a lot of fun building this crane and was really surprised that the functions worked as well as they did despite the weight. The boom indeed was overwhelming in weight and played a part in in reduced performance but what an amazing design!! It’s too bad that I will have to dismantle this beast for parts...thanks for another awesome build!!

BTW @nigel1975 you did an amazing job on this project...beautiful color scheme!!

Edited February 14, 2019 by AFOLegofan66