10191, 10192 newest instruction photo

[Hewman]

Hi Grand Admiral

Don't feel the need to defend every part of your creation, what I don't like, others might love, it's just a question of taste.

Regarding the price ratio, yes, but it does 'appear' (I don't have a piece list) to have great numbers of smaller cheaper pieces, and given the pieces aren't decorated, that further reduces the average value per piece.

I hope it sells well and this encourages Lego to introduce a better space line than mars mission (although I quite like their figs).

[Grand Admiral]

Hi Grand Admiral

Don't feel the need to defend every part of your creation, what I don't like, others might love, it's just a question of taste.

I'm not taking this personally, just trying to educate where I can, and explain just how difficult the design process can be when you have a very limited palette. We didn't have the luxury of picking and choosing any parts we wished.

Regarding the price ratio, yes, but it does 'appear' (I don't have a piece list) to have great numbers of smaller cheaper pieces, and given the pieces aren't decorated, that further reduces the average value per piece.

Are you saying you would prefer fewer pieces and more specialized elements, with an even lower value per piece? The Justice Set has fewer pieces than the Skulls set for the same price, because it uses special parts like canopies and wheels with tires.

We tried to get things like airtanks, various kinds of space engines, like 43121 and 30360 and other special "spacey" parts we like to build with. What you see is what we were able to get.

We did not try to "pad" the part count of the sets. We just built with what we had available to us.

[Hewman]

Hi grand Admiral

Oh no, I think it's an exceptionally difficult job you've got with the limitations on piece choice, and inevitably without piece choice there will be many situations where you will need to use several pieces instead of one more specialised one (I like a mixture of both, eg. the old minifig y wing hardly used a curved piece and it does look a bit ugly whereas the introduction of just a few bigger, more specialised pieces makes the new one look infinitely better).

It's a constant situation of compromise for Lego designers, which does make it a bit of a thankless task.

I think the prices become inflated because of the nature of them not being as mass produced as other non-factory sets.

I understand the price differential between these and more mass produced sets, but it doesn't mean I'm happy to pay it.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read my comments.

Cheers

Matt

[Admiral Giddens]

No :'-( stickers in the torsos, what is that *wacko* . I know it isn´t a mass production set but the stickers in the torso are a bad idea *sing* .

Stickers are like emoticons ;-)

What would your solution to a minifig based space set in factory?

[KDog]

I'm in love with Star Justice. The wheeled transport looks fantastic, and both ships looks very cool. The astronauts have the best Space uniform design in years; I don't mind the stickers. And with the compact but highly-detailed base and all the robots, this sets easily feels like it's worth $100.

But the Space Skulls... I expected a base or a more traditional large ship to anchor this set. But it's just a few really strange-looking, seemingly small skull ships. I guess the skull mech is the big item, but I'm kinda iffy on it. It's the best set in the Space Skulls collection, I think, as the rest leave me cold. I really want to like them, as I love the audacious concept behind them. They'll hopefully grow on me. I think this set really needed a base of some kind to present it as the full theme it's supposed to be.

I was planning to possibly buy the Space Skulls early on, and pick up Star Justice some months later, as the sets are supposed to be available for a year and buying both is a large expense at once. But I'm really anxious to get Star Justice as soon as I can and will likely wait on Space Skulls, if I get it at all. Even if I'm not immediately impressed with it, the idea behind it is compelling enough that I'm anxious to build the ships and see them up close. Either way, I'm already dreaming up uses for these sets in my comic. :)

Edited March 19, 2008 by KDog

[natelite]

here's an idea...if stickers aren't that expensive, how about giving us 2 types of stickers: normal transparent stickers and waterslide decals. since the sets are targeted at AFOLs, many would definitely love the beauty of "printed" torso. by giving us waterslide decals as an option, we can apply the decals and seal them, hence achieving that nice "printed" look without the added cost to TLC. free AFOL labor. :-D ;-)

i would also love to see the return of the space tires to lego factory. that moon buggy looks fine but would look even better with these set of wheels! >:-)

[legomilk]

Here the scans from 10191 and 10192.

http://cache.lego.com/bigdownloads/buildin...ons/4534253.pdf

http://cache.lego.com/bigdownloads/buildin...ons/4534254.pdf

and

http://cache.lego.com/bigdownloads/buildin...ons/4534242.pdf

http://cache.lego.com/bigdownloads/buildin...ons/4535397.pdf

[KDog]

Now that I've looked at the instructions, I'm really impressed by the Skull Fighter or whatever it's called. I like the airplane-style wings and tail, and I especially love how the skull opens its mouth to reveal the pilot and then closes its mouth like it's eating him. NICE TOUCH.

[Grand Admiral]

Yes, unfortunately the box art doesn't show off some of the fun features I incorporated into my models.

The Skullfighter is my favorite model but they put it in the back, with the wing half off the page. |-/

I also think people will be a little bit more impressed with the Mecha Skull when they see the actual size of it compared to the other models.

It's as large as the Justice base. *skull*

[KDog]

Oh damn, now I want both sets and NOW. Gonna have to try and restrain and pace myself with these sets. Is it certain that they'll be available for a year?

[Hinckley]

Since the conversation moved over here, I closed the original topic, so we could keep things more organized for all you space fans! *sweet*

If someone posts new pics of the sets, feel free to PM me and I'll add them to the first post, so people know where to look for picture updates. Thanks.

[Admiral Giddens]

here's an idea...if stickers aren't that expensive, how about giving us 2 types of stickers: normal transparent stickers and waterslide decals. since the sets are targeted at AFOLs, many would definitely love the beauty of "printed" torso. by giving us waterslide decals as an option, we can apply the decals and seal them, hence achieving that nice "printed" look without the added cost to TLC. free AFOL labor. :-D ;-)

i would also love to see the return of the space tires to lego factory. that moon buggy looks fine but would look even better with these set of wheels! >:-)

Since LEGO doesn't currently do waterslide decals, they would have to start an entirely new system to do this. The would either have to purchase the supplies and machinery, or outsource, etc. Imagine that cost. I don't know many 10 year olds now days know how to use waterslide decals. The sets are 10+ not just for Adults. How is lego printing additional stickers free labor?? :-|

We asked for all kinds of tires. I think big ol pieces like that are expensive and don't get used much. (and not enough imho) Thanks for the compliment over the buggy.

[Hinckley]

Since LEGO doesn't currently do waterslide decals, they would have to start an entirely new system to do this. The would either have to purchase the supplies and machinery, or outsource, etc. Imagine that cost. I don't know many 10 year olds now days know how to use waterslide decals. The sets are 10+ not just for Adults.

I know some adults that wouldn't be able to fathom the waterslide decal process either...

[Batbrick]

I love that Space Skulls so much, so many cool features, I'm a real sucker for that mech too, so awesome :'-)

I love the Star Justice too, but if I get one, I hope to get the skulls, more useful pieces for me and a wackier concept!

To the Batbrick Cave! >:-)

[danth]

These sets show exquisite skill and creativity, and it's great to see what talented fans of Space can come up with using limited bricks and colors, but I can't help feeling sad at Lego's unwillingness to give us space sets with printed pieces (I hate stickers) and airtanks.

Although I appreciate the Skull sets, they're a bit campy and wacky for my taste. Not that I could do better!

Edited March 19, 2008 by danth

[xenologer]

Thanks for those Instructions.

Now I just have to wait for the actual parts to show up in LDD for my to buy... nice windshields and slopes for future MOCs.

The Star Justice car looks great.

But I'm wondering about the steering.(if any)

I see now that there's a swivel plate on the rear wheels axel. The question is... how do you control it?theres no HOG wheel or anything...

[Pencoin]

are all those sweet parts in the new LDD? if so awsome?

do the space torsos already have the stickers on in ldd or are they blank and you put sticker on

blank torsos FTW!

[Faramir]

Oh, why the torso stickers, why? :'-(

Skull doesn't look great for me either, but the Star Justice I've gotta get... once I have money...

[Hinckley]

Oh, why the torso stickers, why? :'-(

Read over the thread. They've only explained it about 10 times or so.

I had a question about the torso process for Grand Admiral and Admiral Giddens: Did they offer the use of printed torsos already in existence like exo-force torsos and the stickers ended up as a compromise? Or were they trying to get you to use blank torsos and you brought up the idea of stickers? What was the process for this part of the design like?

[Scouty]

Read over the thread. They've only explained it about 10 times or so.

I had a question about the torso process for Grand Admiral and Admiral Giddens: Did they offer the use of printed torsos already in existence like exo-force torsos and the stickers ended up as a compromise? Or were they trying to get you to use blank torsos and you brought up the idea of stickers? What was the process for this part of the design like?

I think I read that LEGO gave them two options: Stickers or blank torsos...and their answer (this was from an interview) that stickers were better than nothing.

[Hinckley]

I think I read that LEGO gave them two options: Stickers or blank torsos...and their answer (this was from an interview) that stickers were better than nothing.

Thanks Imperial Scouts. Did they say that in this thread? Because then I would feel really stupid. :-$

[Scouty]

Thanks Imperial Scouts. Did they say that in this thread? Because then I would feel really stupid. :-$

Naw, I picked it up from Brothers-brick.com

Here's the excerpt on the sticker issue:

Andrew: Okay, I’ll bite the bullet and ask the question everyone seems to be asking. Why are there stickers in the sets instead of printed pieces — especially the minifig torsos?

Chris: Printing parts is expensive. If you print a part that’s going only in one line of sets, you can’t spread that cost out because of it’s limited production. We hope the space sets sell a buhjillion copies… but factory sets usually are limited runs. We had the choice of either blank torsos or do stickers. Stickers were the best option. We talked to LEGO about these issues and they agreed that stickers were the way to go. We would use stickers IF: A) we could make them B) They would be on transparent film so they could be used in other applications other than our sets C) we get enough color to make them look cool and D) they would be a part available somehow on LDD or factory so kids who can’t afford our set can still get in on the action by building a small LDD ship and adding stickers. LEGO talked internally about this for a while and made it happen.

Mark and I sketched out some ideas and his mad Illustrator skills whipped em out and there ya go. The minifig torso is very expensive to produce… and you add printing it’s even more. If you note, they stopped putting the noggins on the minifigs.. to try and cut some production cost.

Mark: Like Chris said, printed parts are VERY expensive to produce, particularly minifigs. The most expensive part LEGO produces is the printed minifig torso.

We were given the option of using printed parts that existed in LDD, like the 2×2 computer slope that appears in a couple of our sets, or any existing printed minifigs in LDD, like the plaid shirt torso, or maybe a torso with dungarees printed on — not very spacey. Or we would have been stuck with blank minifig torsos, which would’ve been pretty boring.

LEGO also said that we could have stickers, and we could help design them. In an effort to get some more classic space style in our sets, we decided to go with the stickers. Chris and I sketched up some ideas, and I rendered them in Adobe Illustrator. We sent the designs to LEGO, and they made the stickers that will be in the sets.

I know a lot of people are disappointed by this. We would have liked to have our designs printed onto the minifigs, for sure. Unique printed parts were not an option. We did the best we could under the circumstances.

[Grand Admiral]

Thanks for posting that quote, ImperialScouts.

We would have been happy to use ExoForce torsos, and we asked for them, but LEGO would not give us access to printed torsos from other System lines, except what's already in LDD. :-/

[Hinckley]

Thanks for posting that quote, ImperialScouts.

We would have been happy to use ExoForce torsos, and we asked for them, but LEGO would not give us access to printed torsos from other System lines, except what's already in LDD. :-/

Interesting. Thanks for the info. That must have been a roller coaster of an experience. Exciting and frustrating, especially knowing how some of your concessions would be taken by the "oh-so-forgiving" AFOL community at large. :-D I hope that these sell well and they give you more liberties for round two. These are released in a couple of weeks, right?

BTW, I like your stickers better than the Exo-Force torsos.

[Scouty]

Thanks for posting that quote, ImperialScouts.

We would have been happy to use ExoForce torsos, and we asked for them, but LEGO would not give us access to printed torsos from other System lines, except what's already in LDD. :-/

You're welcome :-) . Interesting to know about the Exoforce torsos... but:

BTW, I like your stickers better than the Exo-Force torsos.

So do I *sweet*