Gearboxes With New Orange Selector & 20z Clutch Gear

[Didumos69]

Just now, TeamThrifty said:

Update: The new blue clutch gears WILL engage with the old driving ring extenders, so its possible in some situations that they could be retro-fitted.. so red 3L driving ring + old gray extender + blue 20t clutch = OK

[LvdH]

Actually, while the blue clutch does engage with the old extension ring, it creates a lot of friction when it’s in a build because the “clutch” part of the gear is less than half a stud inside (the gear is 1 stud, and because of the bit of plastic separating the two halves it means less than 0.5 stud), while the extension part is more than that... That’s the same with the red ones, and might also be the reason for LEGO making the yellow extension ring. 

[1963maniac]

I made my own 20t gears w/ clutch. I also made a 24t gear with clutch. Just wanted to try some things with it. Both gears have the older style clutch. These gears work great with either 2L or 3L driving rings and either driving ring extension. BTW, I now have the new parts. 

[Philo]

On 6/12/2018 at 2:41 PM, BusterHaus said:

@Didumos69 My parts are in the mail, I'll be able to test designs soon. I'm also following the LDraw parts tracker, but the wave selector is not there yet. 

It will be there soon...

[Philo]

Now available on LDraw Parts Tracker! http://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cg.../35188.dat
AFAIK it completes the list of Chiron Technic parts (still missing: license plate and... stickers!)

[1963maniac]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Philo!!! They have been used!

[1963maniac]

Philo, I'm making BI with LPUB3D. I'm using 35185,35186 and they are working fine. 35188 appears on the page but not in the PLI or BOM. I don't know what to do.

[zux]

22 hours ago, 1963maniac said:

Philo, I'm making BI with LPUB3D. I'm using 35185,35186 and they are working fine. 35188 appears on the page but not in the PLI or BOM. I don't know what to do.

This question probably should be raised in dedicated digital building subforum, but my guess is that you use different application than LPub3D to create BI. Then check if it is pointing to the same LDraw parts folder, as there might be few separate copies.

[Sariel]

Just wanted to say that I applaud all your work with brand new gearboxes. I, on the other hand, have tried another approach - since our older, simpler gearboxes are relying on two adjacent driving rings, I found a way to adapt the new selectors to shift them rather than to create a brand new gearbox. The result is below, it's a typical 4-speed sequential shifting mechanism that shifts with every 90 degrees of the axle with beam's rotation. With a stepper added, it can be easily adapted to an existing gearbox design such as this one: http://sariel.pl/2016/08/4-speed-sequential-transmission-with-stepper-shifter/

The downside is that you're using 2 selectors to get only 4 speeds, but at least the gearbox itself is compact and simple.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Sariel

[BusterHaus]

On 7/4/2018 at 11:36 AM, 1963maniac said:

Philo, I'm making BI with LPUB3D. I'm using 35185,35186 and they are working fine. 35188 appears on the page but not in the PLI or BOM. I don't know what to do.

This should solve your issue: https://forums.ldraw.org/thread-20962-post-23352.html#pid23352

@Sariel Nice work, you could link the input gears by a small chain as well, although the second selector would turn in the opposite direction.

[Sariel]

5 minutes ago, BusterHaus said:

 

@Sariel Nice work, you could link the input gears by a small chain as well, although the second selector would turn in the opposite direction.

Thanks. Opposite direction works, too. I think gears have potentially less backlash than a chain, since chain can have play in it, and the gears add minimal friction since we're using 16t with clutches to transfer over axles. I will have a complete working gearbox with this and with a stepper shortly. It's already looking really small, the essential part of transmission has a cross-section of just 7x3 studs.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Sariel

[TechnicRCRacer]

Nice gearbox and very compact! Looks great for RC models!

@SarielOfftopic question, but how many monorail tracks do you have?

[Didumos69]

12 hours ago, Sariel said:

I found a way to adapt the new selectors to shift them rather than to create a brand new gearbox.

That's indeed a nice idea for controlling existing gearbox layouts, even though I'm not a fan of using clutch gears to transfer control (or drive) over rotating axles. The 2 control axles are not aligned at 90 degree perfectly, but good enough. I used the same approach in my 8-speed transmission tunnel.

12 hours ago, Sariel said:

The downside is that you're using 2 selectors to get only 4 speeds, but at least the gearbox itself is compact and simple.

Yes that's something that was bothering me too. Not only because one rotary catch should be sufficient to control 4 speeds, but also because you have to somehow split the control over 2 control axles, what you did with 16t gears, which takes a lot of space too. This is why I started focusing on using only one control axle for 4-speed gearboxes.

11 hours ago, Sariel said:

I will have a complete working gearbox with this and with a stepper shortly. It's already looking really small, the essential part of transmission has a cross-section of just 7x3 studs.

Looking forward to seeing it! Please post it here when you're done.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Didumos69

[Didumos69]

I'm working on two variations of this centered 4-speed gearbox with a single rotary catch:

A 3+R version:

And a 4-speed AWD version:

However, for the AWD version, I need to know whether this is going to fit (and if I need the new red differential for it). Does anybody know?

[LvdH]

Yes, that works, and no you don’t need the new red differential for it. It is however 1/10th stud or something too short to fit perfectly in a 7L space. 

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, LvdH said:

Yes, that works, and no you don’t need the new red differential for it. It is however 1/10th stud or something too short to fit perfectly in a 7L space. 

That's great! I thinks it can have some play. Thanks!

[Sariel]

Thanks guys, I'm done adapting the new shifting mechanism to my previous 4-speed sequential RC transmission with a stepper (http://sariel.pl/2016/08/4-speed-sequential-transmission-with-stepper-shifter/). The result is shown below, the full building instructions can be downloaded here: http://sariel.pl/down/chiron-4speed.pdf

This transmission works just the same as the older version, offering 4 speeds with ratios from 1:1 to 5:1, but thanks to the Chiron selectors it's now roughly 1/4 smaller and simpler. It's also built to handle high-load applications, provided, of course, that you mount its sides (with pins) to something. The output and input are 1 stud apart and two-sided, so you can use them both in front and in the rear of the transmission.

I will have a complete video with this transmission in action tomorrow.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Sariel

[Attika]

Hi everyone,

I could not resist to take my turn on this topic, however what you'll see here is based on @Paul Boratko's gearbox. I've really appreciated that it's offered the good old ratios. I don't build digitally, so I've made a dummy frame for the mechanism. I hope it gives you the view to clearify what is going on in there:

It uses only four axles plus the selector axle and there is only one 16T clutchgear involved in forwarding torque. (I know @Didumos69 it is one more than ideal )

Some pics in the proper housing:

The red connector is the input, yellows are the output, the white ox thingy is the limiter (1-4). There is a knobwheel too that indicates my attempt on the motorized stepper:

 

Looks awful doesn't it? Well I couldn't get rid of my old stepper idea...

That's it. Works well all around, but I wouldn't say it is the proper (final) execution. Meant to be a proof of concept and I hope it inspires some upcoming ideas of yours.

Have a lovely weekend.

[Didumos69]

Nice work and thanks for sharing @Attika! The clutch gear used for torque transfer could also sit on the control axle, then at least it won't affect the axles in the gearbox.

I remember we once came up with two very similar AWD gearboxes. One direct and one sequential. When I recall the simplicity and compactness, even symmetry, of those gearboxes and I compare that with what can be done with the rotary catch, I don't get the feeling that this new piece is the holy grail. Okay, it makes controlling driving rings more easy, but to come up with an elegant or symmetrical 4-speed AWD gearbox has not become more easy. Only with 2 rotary catches you can use existing 4-speed setups, like what @Sariel did, but then the control setup is not really more compact than with links.

But perhaps we simply didn't discover the ultimate usage of the rotary catch yet.

[Attika]

Yeap @Didumos69, I follow your fight towards perfection. I had little expectation towards this rotary catch for first, but after just testing that setup under stress, I have to say I'm happy wit it. From where I'm standing this gearbox is considerably smaller then the old type, more durable and reliable and since the last pics, I've changed the servo to an M motor with a back to center part (hockey spring or what is that). Sticked an L motor on the input and abused it to find the weak spot. It didn't let me down. (yet)

Regarding that clutch gear. It's ok there, always rotates the same direction as the axle. 

Those AWD gearboxes you've mentioned, if you remember mine had an asymmetric input, only the output was centered. And from all of my gearboxes that was the only axle ever in center.   So your fight for symmetry is rather personal. So will be the victory 

[Didumos69]

6 hours ago, Attika said:

Those AWD gearboxes you've mentioned, if you remember mine had an asymmetric input, only the output was centered. And from all of my gearboxes that was the only axle ever in center.   So your fight for symmetry is rather personal. So will be the victory 

I guess you're right. But I don't mind. I love this puzzling with gears.

[Sariel]

Here's my 4-speed version in action. Free building instructions: http://sariel.pl/downloads/
Gear ratios:
1st speed: ratio 5:1
2nd speed: ratio 3:1
3rd speed: ratio 1.66:1
4th speed: ratio 1:1

 

[Attika]

On 7/7/2018 at 7:05 AM, Didumos69 said:

I guess you're right. But I don't mind. I love this puzzling with gears.

Well, while the conscious me wasn't gonna go for symmetry, the subconscious me just could not let it go. The strange mixture of this psychological nonsense resulted in a non practical but symmetrical layout. Please take it as a thought experiment:

A little change that I left out the 20T clutch gears from this version. (still based on Pauls layout)

[1963maniac]

On 7/6/2018 at 1:27 PM, Attika said:

Hi everyone,

I could not resist to take my turn on this topic, however what you'll see here is based on @Paul Boratko's gearbox. I've really appreciated that it's offered the good old ratios. I don't build digitally, so I've made a dummy frame for the mechanism. I hope it gives you the view to clearify what is going on in there:

It uses only four axles plus the selector axle and there is only one 16T clutchgear involved in forwarding torque. (I know @Didumos69 it is one more than ideal )

I was wondering which @Paul Boratko's gearbox you are referring to? I'm working on a different one. I'm learning a lot from this Topic and from you and Paul and Didumos,etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[Attika]

12 minutes ago, 1963maniac said:

I was wondering which @Paul Boratko's gearbox you are referring to?

Meatman posted a video from Paul on the 2. page of this topic. It uses only one rotary catch. I've used the phrase "based" on it, cos when I built it I found that one of the axles can be eliminated. And another pic in this topic gave the idea to use the 20T clutch gears that takes the 12/20 ratio inside the box. The reason I'm trying to lower the number of axles is to reduce friction. Also I insist to keep the ratos (0.2, 0.33, 0.66, 1) as practically I find these useful. In the meantime I've built a chassis around to test it and it works surprisingly well. Awaits for an outdoor test as the livingroom turned out to be small.