42083 Bugatti Chiron - MODs and Improvements

[chox]

Oh sorry

It's my Firefox that translates everything
I would take care

[Didumos69]

9 hours ago, jb70 said:

...

Cool! And is the sequence okay now?

I do think it would be nice if the 16t gear at the back could somehow be secured better. In general I would prefer gears to be supported.at both ends. I would think there is some space above the 5x7 frame around the diff and the 13L lbg liftarm right in front of that frame.

[jb70]

Yes, the sequence is perfect now: 1-8 with block on both ends. There is a noticable change in speed between each of the gears. The gearbox works fluently and has less friction as the original one. And I think the overall design of our new gearbox looks much cleaner the the original one.

I found a solution to support the 16t gear by adding a 9L beam at the rear side, which fits well into the chassis:

[Kumbbl]

Are there possibilities to add a gear-indicator? Something like that what have been added to the Porsche?

i had the hope that this could even be easier as with the Porsche.... 

[agrof]

Just for my understanding: did @Didumos69 and @jb70 a more compact, but similar effective (or even improved) gearbox for the Chiron in 2 weeks, using their free time? 

Fantastic job Guys, I am amazed, thanks for sharing!

If I set it in comparison with full time engineers working on this for couple of months... You feel for sure, why I am scratching my head right now... 

Edited June 16, 2018 by agrof

[thatrabidhobo]

31 minutes ago, agrof said:

Just for my understanding: did @Didumos69 and @jb70 a more compact, but similar effective (or even improved) gearbox for the Chiron in 2 weeks, using their free time? 

 

AND one of those people did it all through renders. Unless I missed a post Didumos doesn't have the set yet to physically mess with the new parts.

Perhaps Lego should consider contract work... hand over the desired specifications of a module (like for a gearbox, front suspension, etc) and see what the results are. No different than the automotive, space, or aviation industry.

Edited June 16, 2018 by thatrabidhobo

[Didumos69]

3 hours ago, jb70 said:

Yes, the sequence is perfect now: 1-8 with block on both ends. There is a noticable change in speed between each of the gears. The gearbox works fluently and has less friction as the original one. And I think the overall design of our new gearbox looks much cleaner the the original one.

I found a solution to support the 16t gear by adding a 9L beam at the rear side, which fits well into the chassis:

I say high five @jb70! Great work!

The housing could have been even more elegant without the need to fit it in the rest of the Bugatti. The main gain though, is having 2 less gear meshes in each of the 8 speeds.

I know @ttoobbyy has been sharing ideas on connecting the shift axle.to the rear wing, but I somehow have the feeling that these free holes in the center of the gearbox could be used to route the center shift axle to the back.

To make such a thing work, the mechanism of the rear spoiler should be practically without friction. Also, such a connection should have the least lag possible. Preferably only one gear mesh. If we could somehow replace the liftarm above the rear diff (the one with holes placed vertically) we can extend the center shift axle all the way to the back of the rear diff.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Didumos69

[sm1995]

The new gearbox is seriously awesome. Great work guys, keep it going. Love to see where the spoiler idea goes!

[ttoobbyy]

If I understand correctly. The idea of 1-8 speed gear box is to limite  the Rotation angle in 90 degrees. Other than adding liftarm on the axle of orange selector. Why not just add two 1*3 liftarm at the back of those grey shifter? They will stop the orange selector further turning.

[Appie]

Simple and effective I'd say @ttoobbyy

Seems @Didumos69 and me were thinking overly complex, because neither of us thought of this option after my suggestion for a 1<->8 gearblock in the free space

[Didumos69]

8 hours ago, ttoobbyy said:

If I understand correctly. The idea of 1-8 speed gear box is to limite  the Rotation angle in 90 degrees. Other than adding liftarm on the axle of orange selector. Why not just add two 1*3 liftarm at the back of those grey shifter? They will stop the orange selector further turning.

 

7 hours ago, Appie said:

Simple and effective I'd say @ttoobbyy

Seems @Didumos69 and me were thinking overly complex, because neither of us thought of this option after my suggestion for a 1<->8 gearblock in the free space

I did think of that, but I don't think it's a good idea. It would block the driving rings, but I fear it would allow for too much rotation to actually prevent an undesired shift. Especially when I realize that the 90 degree limiter is all the way in the paddle shifter unit. But more importantly, the wave selectors - which can be regarded as a kind of worm gear - would translate, if not amplify, the rotational force into a longitudinal force applied to the gearbox housing. In other words, you would end up building a very sophisticated mechanism to drive apart the beams to the front and back of the driving rings, with undesired friction in the gearing at the other side of those beams as a result.

I'm convinced that blocking the rotation directly, which has a much bigger chance of actually avoiding a paddle shift, is the better approach. Certainly from a mechanical point of view. And I don't think blocking the rotation is that much more complex compared to blocking the driving rings.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Didumos69

[Appie]

@Didumos69

Ah yes that makes sense. My apologies for assuming you didn't think of it. 

[Permo]

That gearbox is looking really neat, almost can't believe it has the same functions the original one had... nice job !

[Didumos69]

3 hours ago, Appie said:

@Didumos69

Ah yes that makes sense. My apologies for assuming you didn't think of it. 

Sorry for being a bit firm on this.

Our gearblock is already quite far from the paddle shifter. This is also why I think it's even better to use a perpendicular axle-pin connector instead of the orange (ox)-piece @jb70 is currently using. A perpendicular axle-pin connector is slightly wider and bumps into the gearblock slightly earlier.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Didumos69

[Appie]

3 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

Sorry for being a bit firm on this.

? Why are you apologising now? It makes sense, either you use ttoobbyy's and end up reinforcing the gearbox housing or use the one you already made and don't have that issue while taking a (very) little bit more space than the 2 liftarms method from ttoobbyy. Nothing wrong with that, so need to to say sorry imo

Also thank you and jb70 for the great work on the gearbox. Nice to see a more efficient design. Once I get the set (not in a rush) I will certainly use it.

[jfb9301]

I just got done building the "stock" gearbox with the gear block modification in the back. I based the design on the Didumos' renders. No collisions and seems to shift well. I am still debating if I want to go for minor improvements, or more of full blown mod. I ended up spending a lot of time and money getting my Porsche GT3RS just the way I wanted, and I'd rather do less than more on this model. The "stock" transmission seems to work great from the drive wheels to the output of the transmission, but if I try to use a M motor on the input from the DNR, bad things happen as soon as I grab second gear. I have not tried having the M motor off while I change gears. So this might be a product of the M motor applying torque and grabbing 2 gears at the same time. In a real car of course a clutch would prevent the motor from applying torque during the shift. Really I need to test out the play-ability of this setup, so I will finish box 2 and have a full drive train before making the decision about this transmission setup.

I'm still wondering the purpose of the 20T idler in the back end of the differential. I cannot find a single purpose for it. Maybe the real car has the diff set up this way?

[AFOLegofan66]

Thanks everyone for all their input for this redesign on the transmission. I have the Chiron still in the box waiting for the perfect time to start and I feel there is still a way to go!! So keep those fantastic ideas coming!! 

[jb70]

You like to pimp up your Bugatti with this new gearbox?

Here are the building instructions: Chassis+Gearbox.pdf

And a 3D-model as LDR: Chassis+Gearbox.ldr

Edited June 17, 2018 by jb70

[Danee]

13 minutes ago, jb70 said:

You like to pimp up your Bugatti with this new gearbox?

Here are the building instructions:

Chassis+Gearbox.pdf

Many thanks for the instructions 

Do we need any additional parts to pimp it like that?

 

[ttoobbyy]

On 6/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, Kumbbl said:

Are there possibilities to add a gear-indicator? Something like that what have been added to the Porsche?

i had the hope that this could even be easier as with the Porsche.... 

An idea about the gear indicator. Concern about there barely have no space in the back of the bugatti. I decided to place the indicator in front of the car. The basic idea is to let the movement for the yellow gear directly transfer to the Passenger seat.

All the new parts and replacement parts are show in red and the other color mean the original parts.

As we can see from the first picture, an axle transfer the movement to the right side of the car. It will turn 90 degrees by using a pair of gears.

After movement turning 90 degrees, on the same axle, there is a belt gear, it could be replaced by PART 2983, I can't find if in the database. Then, the movement will transfer vertically to another belt gear, where I placed a 1/2 bush (actually, a bush can also be used as a belt gear). It also need to replaced by PART 2983.

On the same axle, there is a 12 Tooth Bevel. It will transfer the movement 90 degrees again.

Finally, on the last axle, it pass through a hole on the panel and present any action from the Gear lever.

 

There remain 3 issues that could be further optimized.

The first, which I worried about most is the pair of belt gears, I hope they could work well, but I don't have that part to test.

Secondly, the ratio between gear need to be as close to 1:2 as possible. Again, I don't have data of belt gears, With now exist design, When push 8 times of the gear lever, the indicator will Rotating less than 360 degrees.

Thirdly, the mount of axle hold base at left side of the third picture, is not concise enough. I am sure there have better solution. 

 

[Johnny1360]

4 hours ago, jfb9301 said:

 

I'm still wondering the purpose of the 20T idler in the back end of the differential. I cannot find a single purpose for it. Maybe the real car has the diff set up this way?

Maybe it's for the B model

[ttoobbyy]

I made a huge mistake! Those 12T and 20T need to be shifted! And the transfer from second axle to the final can simply be done by using pair of universal joint!!! The ratio we need is 360:630=0.57 . With 12:20=0.6 which means each level only has 3 degrees bias. Absolutely acceptable! I will upload it later

[Ngoc Nguyen]

1 hour ago, Johnny1360 said:

Maybe it's for the B model

lololol are you serious 

[bonox]

none of the UCS type sets have B models do they?

None of the racers sets ever did and they only licensed techic set I can think of with a proper B model is the volvo loader. The rest like both mercedes trucks were brief mods of essentially the same thing.

[Bartybum]

1 hour ago, bonox said:

none of the UCS type sets have B models do they?

None of the racers sets ever did and they only licensed techic set I can think of with a proper B model is the volvo loader. The rest like both mercedes trucks were brief mods of essentially the same thing.

The Arocs B-model was entirely a new build except for the cabin