42083 Bugatti Chiron - MODs and Improvements

[Appie]

@Didumos69 cool thanks for working it out digitally. That would at least sort out shifting from 8 to 1 and back.

 

 

[fred-eric]

Too bad we can not separate the body from the chassis to see the gearbox ;-(

[Rudivdk]

2 hours ago, Wolf_Zipp said:

One hole make much difference:

It´s factor 3

That's huge. Wonder if it would be possible to mod it so that the shock is at an even greater angle ( move top mount 1stud inside?). Guess that would fix a big part of sagging (although it will decrease bottom clearance as well...).

[agrof]

@Wolf_Zipp Thanks for the good visualization, your calculation is a bit wrong though, the ratio is 1:2. It doesn't matter actually in this issue.

I dug into the live build video from Billund, where Sariel built is correctly, see: https://youtu.be/bBNLskdewBM?t=7638

In the end of the video it is still clearly visible, that the front suspension is fully compressed, don't look what Sariel does as he pulls the car upwards too, but the speaker guy: https://youtu.be/bBNLskdewBM?t=25113

So, is the suspension really under dimensioned, or is this caused by friction pins, or something else what I can not see at the moment?

Edited June 3, 2018 by agrof
typo, added link

[Wolf_Zipp]

49 minutes ago, Rudivdk said:

That's huge. Wonder if it would be possible to mod it so that the shock is at an even greater angle ( move top mount 1stud inside?). Guess that would fix a big part of sagging (although it will decrease bottom clearance as well...).

Take a look at the last page, the pics from  @Lox Lego there is no chance to get closer at top side.

With a greater angle the suspendion will be softer with more range in hight. 

[technic_addict]

Has anyone tried to just switch the friction pin with tan pin?

[Wolf_Zipp]

10 minutes ago, agrof said:

@Wolf_Zipp Thanks for the good visualization, your calculation is a bit wrong though, the ratio is 1:2. It doesn't matter actually in this issue.

So I dig into the live build video from Billund, where Sariel built is correctly, see: https://youtu.be/bBNLskdewBM?t=7638

In the end of the video it is still clearly visible, that the front suspension is fully compressed (don't look what Sariel does, but the speaker guy). So, is the suspension really underdimensioned, or friction pins generate this, or something else what I can not see at the moment?

 

I know, ist not 100 % correct, when the suspendion is in a angle , it´s about 95 % force.

But Sorry, you made also a misstake:

left side is k=2 / k=4  => Force Ratio 1 : 2

right side is k=1 / k=4 => Force Ratio 1 : 4

 

@technic_addict look last page @Lex Lego pics, he have the tan Pins inside

Edited June 3, 2018 by Wolf_Zipp

[agrof]

5 minutes ago, Wolf_Zipp said:

I know, ist not 100 % correct, when the suspendion is in a angle , it´s about 95 % force.

But Sorry, you made also a misstake:

left side is k=2 / k=4  => Force Ratio 1 : 2

right side is k=1 / k=4 => Force Ratio 1 : 4

I stand corrected, You are right  - but we got the idea.

Could be that the blue friction pins at  inner rotation points are causing this? Can somebody test it?

Edited June 3, 2018 by agrof

[Didumos69]

Reminds me of this explanatory illustration from @Erik Leppen.

[Meatman]

19 hours ago, Paul Boratko said:

Very disappointed to find out that the new hubs do not work with the Porsche wheels.. They do work well with the smaller wheels(42077), especially since you can attach them with 3 black friction pins and it eliminates the play between the pins and the holes that the older hubs had... However, the offset is 1/2 a stud different when using the new hubs compared to the old one, so this is NOT as good.

I just tried it out. You're right. They don't work. One would think that a new part like a wheel hub would be compatible with all of the wheels.

[Wolf_Zipp]

39 minutes ago, agrof said:

Could be that the blue friction pins at  inner rotation points are causing this? Can somebody test it?

I test it , without friction is better, i change always to the tan Pins when there are turn points.

But I can´t say if it´s causing of the sagging. 

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, agrof said:

Could be that the blue friction pins at  inner rotation points are causing this? Can somebody test it?

 

55 minutes ago, Wolf_Zipp said:

I test it , without friction is better, i change always to the tan Pins when there are turn points.

But I can´t say if it´s causing of the sagging. 

Maybe they used friction pins as a last resort to at least keep the model up when it sits still.

[Lipko]

Instead of a tan pin, I will put pin with 2L axle parts*. That has smaller slack. By the way, I don't see why using another type of pin/axle would make the suspension worse.

Another source of friction may be the vertical beams secured there too tightly.

*

[DugaldIC]

Soo I played with the front suspension a little and with given pieces there isn't much you can do. Unless you entirely dismantle the front and change things around significantly there aren't many options. I did try one thing that did work but you need a few extra pieces and it lowers the front a little over a .25 of a stud. But on the bright side it springs back up nicely and it sits the same height as the other side seeing as the original layout doesn't spring back up fully. I can share if people are interested. Next option is to add a torsion bar. (I know not everyone likes torsion bar but it sure does help keep tension on weak suspension) 

Edited June 4, 2018 by DugaldIC

[JunkstyleGio]

 

 

please show.

 

[technic_addict]

33 minutes ago, DugaldIC said:

Soo I played with the front suspension a little and with given pieces there isn't much you can do. Unless you entirely dismantle the front and change things around significantly there aren't many options. I did try one thing that did work but you need a few extra pieces and it lowers the front a little over a .25 of a stud. But on the bright side it springs back up nicely and it sits the same height as the other side seeing as the original layout doesn't spring back up fully. I can share if people are interested. Next option is to add a torsion bar. (I know not everyone likes torsion bar but it sure does help keep tension on weak suspension) 

I would be interested in seeing both options.  I really like your torsion bar on the Aston.

[DugaldIC]

53 minutes ago, JunkstyleGio said:

please show.

@technic_addict

I'll see if I can't get some pictures of the options tomorrow and I'll post em up. 

[imadcobra]

Posted yesterday at 03:50 PM

@SheldonF

Did anyone get an extra light grey flex axle? I got 3 of the medium size one ( not sure exact length). Did I miss a step in the build? I checked the parts list and it shows the build has 2, but I got 3. Also, tried changing this. I'm undecided if it looks better or worse. What do you guys think?

https://imgur.com/a/IY7uZlE

I think this looks a lot better and is exactly what I want to do too. Nice of Lego to supply you with the extra flex tube to do so. Then it just needs the top edges of the bonnet filled and it does'nt look to bad. Do the 2x4 panels come in the light blue, I think even those would help to fill the top edge gap.

[Jim]

3 hours ago, imadcobra said:

I think this looks a lot better and is exactly what I want to do too. Nice of Lego to supply you with the extra flex tube to do so. Then it just needs the top edges of the bonnet filled and it does'nt look to bad. Do the 2x4 panels come in the light blue, I think even those would help to fill the top edge gap.

I was just about to post this mod. Indeed looks great.

[Didumos69]

The zusammengebaut review reports a wrong gear sequence: " 1. Gang → 6. Gang → 7. Gang → 8. Gang → 5. Gang → 2. Gang → 3. Gang → 4. Gang." But they made a mistake with the 2L lever with towball. With the 2L lever positioned as in the image below (from zusammengebaut), the 4-speed gearbox (in the background of this image) should be in its 1st gear, but it is in its 2nd gear. This means that when you switch the 4-speed gearbox from its 1st to 2nd gear, the high gear of the low-high gearbox (in the foreground of this image) is immediately engaged. So, effectively this switches the entire gearbox from 1st to (2+4=6)th gear.

To make it work, the orange gear selectors and the 2L lever with towball should be aligned properly. The foreground of the render below shows the only correct aligment of the 4-speed gearbox with the 2L-lever with towball pointing to the upper-right side. The 4-speed gearbox is in its 4th gear. In the background of the render, the low-high gearbox is in its low gear, which corresponds with either of the two vertical gear selector positions. However, the low-high gearbox might as well have been in its high gear, which corresponds with either of the two horizontal gear selector positions. The 2L-lever with towball is in position to switch the low-high gearbox when an up-shift occurs (the right paddle shifter under the steering wheel is for up-shifting). Such an up-shift will switch the 4-speed gearbox from 4th to 1st gear. In the render, with the low-high gearbox in low gear, this means the entire gearbox is switched from 4th to 5th gear, which is the desired result. If the low-high gearbox had been in high gear, the up-shift would have resulted in an 8th to 1st shift of the complete gearbox.

The brothersbrick review shows the correct alignment. The low-high gearbox is in low gear and the 4-speed gearbox is in 4th gear.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Didumos69

[Kumbbl]

8 hours ago, DugaldIC said:

Soo I played with the front suspension a little and with given pieces there isn't much you can do. Unless you entirely dismantle the front and change things around significantly there aren't many options. I did try one thing that did work but you need a few extra pieces and it lowers the front a little over a .25 of a stud. But on the bright side it springs back up nicely and it sits the same height as the other side seeing as the original layout doesn't spring back up fully. I can share if people are interested. Next option is to add a torsion bar. (I know not everyone likes torsion bar but it sure does help keep tension on weak suspension) 

I would be interested in every approach to improve the front-suspension, regardless if other pieces are needed - yours sound already promising, would be great if could post some pics or hints what has to be done...

If your approach works for me too than i have a good hope that the Chiron can evolve into a great model by just some moderate MODs:

• DugaldlC MOD for front suspension
• Appies / Didumous69 approach for preventing switching from 8 --> 1 and from 1 to 8
• HoG should be quite easy

With just these MODs and a carefully building of the car the result should be a very good model - far from perfect, but well useable und well working...

For a quite perfect model IMHO at least the following would be needed in addition:

• Ackerman-steering
• spoiler driven by gear-switching
• display which gear currently active - IMHO this was already an essential MOD for the Porsche and that one just had 4 sequential speeds - but a 8-speed sequential gearbox without a gear-indicator is IMHO nonsense
• better doors, lockable
• prevention from switching to reverse unless 1st gear is active
• better engine drivetrain where the three crank-shafts are all dead-ends of the complete drive-train (even better would be an engine with only one crank-shaft but i doubt that this is really possible and well working with current available parts)

Edited June 4, 2018 by Kumbbl

[Appie]

2 hours ago, Kumbbl said:

better engine drivetrain where the three crank-shafts are all dead-ends of the complete drive-train (even better would be an engine with only one crank-shaft but i doubt that this is really possible and well working with current available parts)

Currently messing with this. I build the engine with Sariel's speedbuild video and then started swapping 24T's to the front. I don't really like how I have it now (24T only braced on 1 side) and it only seems a little smoother so far.

The old space of the 24T I still have open though, pushing the whole engine one stud back would make bracing easy, but not sure if that will collide with the body later and it is not really desired to move an engine closer to the rear axle from the middle I think (from a real life technical standpoint), so I'd rather not 

Might look at a complete new setup. Going by Sariel's speedbuild, the subassembly he places at 14:27mins seems to indicate alot of dead space underneath it. 

[Didumos69]

43 minutes ago, Appie said:

Going by Sariel's speedbuild, the subassembly he places at 14:27mins seems to indicate alot of dead space underneath it.

But that space is quite convenient if you would want to route the main shiftshaft (!) to the spoiler.

[Appie]

It's dead space right in front of the engine though, meaning routing the axle/liftarm w/e to the back to control the spoiler is blocked by said engine. Underneath might be viable but I don't know what is blocked by the gearbox and whatnot which is directly (?) below it.

I think a mechanism like Jeroen Ottens' DB11 might work even though this spoiler is alot heavier than that of the DB11. It's a very small mechanism and Lego already did half the work by at least making the spoiler adjustable.

 

 

 

[agrof]

What about adding a 3. spring on this side? As far I can analyse, there is space for that in the final build. Is it elegant? No, but looks like the official solution isn't either, but this would be an easy mod.