42083 Bugatti Chiron - MODs and Improvements

[DugaldIC]

@agrof that was another thought I had as well, although it seems a bit excessive having to use a third spring when all it need is better geometry. It really bugs me that one of the biggest flaws of the Porsche carried over into the Bugatti. I'll see what I can come up with, I'll also give the third shock a try. 

 

 

[SheldonF]

Someone on the LEGO Technic 42083 Bugatti Chiron Facebook Group posted a short video of using friction less pins in the suspension and it doesn't sag. Go check it out. 

[jovel]

Friction less pins might help but it if you want to do it right, the whole front needs a compleet re-build.

I have a - pretty crazy - idea in mind, will try to post an LDD screenshot later on.

[Jim]

25 minutes ago, SheldonF said:

Someone on the LEGO Technic 42083 Bugatti Chiron Facebook Group posted a short video of using friction less pins in the suspension and it doesn't sag. Go check it out. 

I have seen it. Seems a bit too wobbly now. I will try to go half friction/half frictionless.

[DugaldIC]

Soo I tried the frictionless pins, and I tried a few more options all of which don't work that well. However I did set up a very simple and minor torsion bar set up and it works perfectly. It makes the front bouncy and playful like the rear of the car and it only uses 16 extra very common pieces to do so. There might even be some left overs you could use as well. 

@Didumos69 if you happen to get a chance to look over this and possibly add it to the LDD as a front suspension correction ootion?! 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by DugaldIC

[AFOLegofan66]

very easy idea...I will use this when I build this.Thanks

[Wolf_Zipp]

@Kumbbl You want a fakemotor with 1 crank shaft ? I tryed it, the cylinder come in a circle with always 1 stud distance :

I have not enough togglejoints to build more. Left side a W16 with 2 crank shaft 90 degree

IMG_20180604_215505 by Wolf Zipp, auf Flickr

IMG_20180604_215640 by Wolf Zipp, auf Flickr

The W16 is not stiff, but it turns with low friction.

Edit : I don´t know if it fit in the Bugatti !

Edited June 4, 2018 by Wolf_Zipp

[Didumos69]

@DugaldIC, why not use this part with the axle sticking behind the black liftarm?

Edited June 4, 2018 by Didumos69

[DugaldIC]

34 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

@DugaldIC, why not use this part with the axle sticking behind the black liftarm?

Oh yea, absolutely that's even easier. 

It does work I'll post up some corrected pictures in a few. 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by DugaldIC

[Appie]

@DugaldIC

Could you tell me if I mount the wheels of the Porsche if they get the same depth on the hub (how close they are to the springs)? I don't own the Chiron yet, but looking at your pics I think I might have an idea for the geometry, but need to know available space, figured I'd mess with the Porsche wheel if possible. 

[jovel]

Not very realistic I gues but pretty strong.

Will be tricky to build this into the Chiron.

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by jovel

[DugaldIC]

4 minutes ago, Appie said:

@DugaldIC

Could you tell me if I mount the wheels of the Porsche if they get the same depth on the hub (how close they are to the springs)? I don't own the Chiron yet, but looking at your pics I think I might have an idea for the geometry, but need to know available space, figured I'd mess with the Porsche wheel if possible. 

Unfortunately the Porsche wheels don't work with these hubs, however for general spacing I think the regular hubs with two pulley spacers and a Porsche rim would be very close. 

[Didumos69]

34 minutes ago, DugaldIC said:

Oh yea, absolutely that's even easier. 

Never mind, I tried that and it didn't work. It interferes with the shifting mechanism on the drivers side. 

I meant the vertical black liftarm above the torsion bar, or was that what you tried? It's a bent one I think.

[DugaldIC]

4 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

I meant the vertical black liftarm above the torsion bar, or was that what you tried? It's a bent one I think.

I tried every which way and what I just showed is by far the best solution, also besides the one I originally did it's the only other version that works. 

[Lox Lego]

On 6/3/2018 at 7:23 AM, agrof said:

@Lox Lego Does the front suspension work for You OK? Does the spring misplacement cause the no-suspension issue, or is it just as wrong with original setup? Could You make an analysis what could be the root cause?

@Bartybum Easy hue setting work only for base colors (seems to), other shades start to pixelize.

Hi @agrof, the front suspension on the original setup it is still weak. It is simple, the front of the car is simply to heavy to hold all of the weight. There are many other ways to create suspension setups (without torsion bar) that maximize spring strength. The depends on the control arm length, angle of the shock and if the shock is leveraged or not. My Bugatti suspension is an example of a leveraged setup that will hold much more weight than normal due to the leverage arms. Even suspension like the front of the Lemans racecar 42039 (inboard front suspension) is quite strong because the control arms travel more than the spring due to the angle the shock is on. Like all vehicles in real life, different lengths and positions in shocks, control arms and angles are chosen for the best solution.

Bugatti Chiron Framework by lachlan cameron, on Flickr

[stevenhalim]

7 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

@DugaldIC, why not use this part with the axle sticking behind the black liftarm?

Ah, the torsion bar idea from your Rugged Supercar.

7 hours ago, DugaldIC said:

Oh yea, absolutely that's even easier. 

It does work I'll post up some corrected pictures in a few. 

 

 

Good to know that this is an easy fix to the sagging front suspension :). One of my main MOD wishlist list ticked.

Obviously TLG designers won't be allowed to use this technique as it stresses parts, but I am OK to sacrifice a few of  and twisted axles to have better front suspension.

Will keep watching this thread for other front suspension solutions.

[agrof]

9 hours ago, DugaldIC said:

 

I had an idea, but with opposite working effect. Never mind...  Great solution Dugald! 

Edited June 5, 2018 by agrof

[Lipko]

How about reducing the weight of the car? There seems to be many unnecessary parts all around that doesn't seem to add to the strength of the chassis.

[Didumos69]

5 hours ago, Lipko said:

How about reducing the weight of the car? There seems to be many unnecessary parts all around that doesn't seem to add to the strength of the chassis.

It would help of course, but I think you would have to remove at least 300 to 500gr if not more. My rugged supercar weighs 2kg and has a suspension geometry that is stronger than this Bugatti and only has just enough strength in the front (without torsion bars).

I reckon this model weighs around 3kg.

10 hours ago, Lox Lego said:

There are many other ways to create suspension setups (without torsion bar) that maximize spring strength. The depends on the control arm length, angle of the shock and if the shock is leveraged or not. My Bugatti suspension is an example of a leveraged setup that will hold much more weight than normal due to the leverage arms. Even suspension like the front of the Lemans racecar 42039 (inboard front suspension) is quite strong because the control arms travel more than the spring due to the angle the shock is on. Like all vehicles in real life, different lengths and positions in shocks, control arms and angles are chosen for the best solution.

+1. @Erik Leppen explained this once very nicely. Draw a line through the rotation point of the suspension arm to which the shock is mounted, orthogonal to the length of the shock. The distance between the rotation point and the shock defines the 'arm' and the longer the arm, the bigger the moment of force, the stronger the suspension.

In a setup where the shocks are squeezed between two parallel suspension arms, you can derive the arm length by translating the shock along the suspension arms upto a point where the upper end of the shock coincides with the rotation point of the upper suspension arm. This is the case in my rugged supercar:

13 hours ago, jovel said:

Not very realistic I gues but pretty strong.

Will be tricky to build this into the Chiron.

That would indeed be strong, but I don't like the fact that you almost can't see the shocks.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Didumos69

[Aleh]

This is unbelievable in such expensive car even suspencion realized negligently 

[Appie]

10 hours ago, DugaldIC said:

Unfortunately the Porsche wheels don't work with these hubs, however for general spacing I think the regular hubs with two pulley spacers and a Porsche rim would be very close. 

Yeah sorry meant with hubs that work for the Porsche wheel, but good to know I need 2 pulleys in there. Thanks. 

[DugaldIC]

6 hours ago, stevenhalim said:

Oviously TLG designers won't be allowed to use this technique as it stresses parts, but I am OK to sacrifice a few of  and twisted axles to have better front suspension. 

I agree  I'd much rather have functional suspension. 

[chox]

My new Chiron Mod's :

[Bobo08]

Any chance you can give us a brief description of what you have done? Nice work !

[Seasider]

I wonder what the car looks like with just plain light grey tiles across the bottom of the door as a replacement to the light blue with the stickers