[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[Berthil]

32 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Does anyone have suggestions for a new GBC Train module ?

On GBC exhibitions typical table width is 80cm. I'm working on ideas to use trains to have maximum coverage of table space which of course also should look interesting. Hence the two small radius turns in the video.
But I'm also not sure what and it's only two weeks to LEGO World :)
We now have two unloaders, may a good idea on a compact loader would be nice as Akiyuki is using the same one twice.

[doug72]

5 minutes ago, Berthil said:

We now have two unloaders, may a good idea on a compact loader would be nice as Akiyuki is using the same one twice.

Might be possible to have an end on loader as per Akiyuki crane module but a much simpler version with lower lift.
i.e. lift ball container off train move container forward to be loaded & returned for a more linear arrangment.
The @Jonas turntable also allows for tight 90º turns & 180º reversing.

[doug72]

21 hours ago, Berthil said:

On GBC exhibitions typical table width is 80cm. I'm working on ideas to use trains to have maximum coverage of table space which of course also should look interesting. Hence the two small radius turns in the video.

When I move my GBC trains into the loft I will only have the about same width i.e. 80 cm.
I intend to use Vee Reversers instead of curves or a turnatble with 90º turn and a 1/4 circle of curves to fit all the modules in a linear layout.

Currently working on a return conveyor for my Through Rotary Dumper to make a closed GBC loop which will be powered alternatively by the reversers at each end of the train track.

[doug72]

 Now completed my version of a Through Rotary Dumper with Conveyor arranged for for a closed GBC circuit.

Run on test and just a few issues with balls escaping - now resolved.
Whole module breaks down into four units,:- Rotary Dumper, Loader, Bridge & Conveyor.

The conveyor could be rebuilt to face the other way for use in GBC daisy chains layouts.

See Video:

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Doug72

[Berthil]

Nice work Doug. Also nice to see unity of colors :)

I'm almost done integrating the new design lift with worm gear and counterweights in my design. I managed to use 24:8 to the worm gear by using the new modified plate with two studs part 34103 for half stud offset for the gear rack.
I also had to design a new compact switch to release the train to the rotator as there is no room for the current one in my setup. It's integrated in the carrier so nothing sticks out and uses an elastic band instead of weights. I also made a visually attractive design for  the counterweight wires.
Tonight I hope to finish the counterweights and then do first test runs so depending on the results a lot still can change :)

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Berthil

[doug72]

39 minutes ago, Berthil said:

Nice work Doug. Also nice to see unity of colors :)

I'm almost done integrating the new design lift with worm gear and counterweights in my design. I managed to use 24:8 to the worm gear by using the new modified plate with two studs part 34103 for half stud offset for the gear rack.
I also had to design a new compact switch to release the train to the rotator as there is no room for the current one in my setup. It's integrated in the carrier so nothing sticks out and uses an elastic band instead of weights. I also made a visually attractive design for  the counterweight wires.
Tonight I hope to finish the counterweights and then do first test runs so depending on the results a lot still can change :)

 

Thanks for your comments, I tend to use whichever parts  I have most of remaining !

Not come across that 34103 part, going to a Lego show in Newcastle on Saturday so will see if I can buy some, looks useful.

Look forward to seeing your completed build.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Doug72

[Berthil]

I by the way use these very common ferro iron 25mm 'car body rings' as counterweight in the 4 x 4 x 4 cylinder containers.

My carrier with Lithium battery train weighs 460gr.
Believe it or not, when I fill the container completely with these rings it weighs exactly 115 grams, 4 x 115 = 460 grams! I also added one layer of duck tape around the rings to have a snug fit and no rattles.
The center hole leaves room for the ball end of the black wire/rope. So if you have the normal AA battery pack train you have to revert to lead or bigger container because filled with iron rings the weight will be a maximum of app. 140 grams per container if you would be able to fill it completely with iron.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Berthil

[Berthil]

My updated rotator is finished. Very pleased with the result and now in my top 3 of GBC machines :)

At 1 min. you can see my upper exit switch I had to use because of lack of space, works very well and cannot 'hang'.
I also used a set of Technic pulleys to clear the counterweights from the base frame and use full length of wires as I didn't want to cut the LEGO wires.
It runs 24:8 ratio, hence full circle with entry and exit is 27 seconds, 1 second longer than AKiyuki's version :)

Thanks @Doug72 and @MajklSpajkl for the improvements! I now feel very confident to run it for 7 days 7 hours a day in about two weeks at LEGO World Utrecht.

Would be nice if Akiyuki would also implement the improvements and run it at the next Japan Brickfest 2019 but that's probably not going to happen :)  

Edited October 5, 2018 by Berthil
Added timing

[MajklSpajkl]

Wow @Berthil, your timing is amazing. Mine is from 40 to 45 seconds  That lighter battery really helps a lot I guess and 24:8 ratio as well. That pulley system looks really cool and the whole module runs really smooth. Job well done. Unfortunatelly my kids got the hands on mine module and now I have to tweek and repair quite some problems...  A question: What makes you exit switch lift back up if you don't have a counterweight for it? 

[doug72]

48 minutes ago, Berthil said:

My updated rotator is finished. Very pleased with the result and now in my top 3 of GBC machines :

Thanks @Doug72 and @MajklSpajkl for the improvements! I now feel very confident to run it for 7 days 7 hours a day in about two weeks at LEGO World Utrecht.

Would be nice if Akiyuki would also implement the improvements and run it at the next Japan Brickfest 2019 but that's probably not going to happen :)  

Excellent work and looks great,  The Ultimate Elevator / Rotary Dumper.

The elevator speed is fast, and with worm drive , fail safe. What is the cycle time and ball count  / minute ?

This has been a very satisfying collaboration and thanks to everyone involved in improving these two iconic GBC train modules.

Doug

Edited October 5, 2018 by Doug72

[Berthil]

@MajklSpajkl Thanks!

33 minutes ago, MajklSpajkl said:

What makes you exit switch lift back up if you don't have a counterweight for it? 

Just an elastic band and the bottom side. Lever is extended with 1 x 3 thin liftarms and axle towball (2736) for one end of the rubber band, other end of the rubber band just is around the axle that limits the switch as in your original design. I'll make a picture, it fits very well in your lift design.
Good luck with rebuilding!

26 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Excellent work and looks great,  The Ultimate Elevator / Rotary Dumper.

The elevator speed is fast, and with worm drive , fail safe. What is the cycle time and ball count  / minute ?

This has been a very satisfying collaboration and thanks to everyone involved in improving these two iconic GBC train modules.

Doug

Thanks Doug! I think you deserve the most praise! I just sat back and watched while you finished the improvements with perseverance :)

The ball loader puts in a maximum of 33 balls per cycle and cycle time of the 24:8 version with high lift is 27 seconds so this meets GBC standard of 1 ball per second.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Berthil

[doug72]

11 minutes ago, Berthil said:

The ball loader puts in a maximum of 33 balls per cycle and cycle time of the 24:8 version with high lift is 27 seconds so this meets GBC standard of 1 ball per second.

Could you post some images of you achieved the 24/8 gearing and how the rack is arranged ?

I,ll have to alter my version &  add counterweights if I can source those 34103 parts.

[MajklSpajkl]

Like Berthill said, you @Doug72 made the most work here so thank's to you again for sharing your ideas and improvents.@Berthill, I kinda guessed that probably you use rubber bands. I think I'll leave it with the counterweights, but would be interested as well in some close up photos of the area around tha 24:8 gear pair. Thank you in advance.

[Chipstertrain]

Hi all

 

As someone who has just a handful of GBC modules built I've been watching this with interest for quite some time and I must say it is a fantastic job all four of you have done.

 

I'm off to Lego World myself on the Monday and I'm really looking forward to seeing this with my own eyes.

 

Congratulations to everyone involved and IF I ever get around to building a train layout for GBC I'll include this for sure

 

Chip

Edited October 6, 2018 by Chipstertrain

[Berthil]

Welcome Chip and thanks! See you at LEGO World Utrecht.

Here's a detailed picture of my modest input to this great build. 24:8 is very simple, just an 8T gear directly on the 24T gear made possible by the new 34103 part.
The upper switch is also very simple. As we have seen here, simple just simply works best :)

(please note that most of my pins are put in with the slits perpendicular to the liftarms :) )

 

[Jonas]

Excellent job done, Doug72, Berthil and MajklSpajkl!

I like to return to this thread to read and admire great progress you have done.

Unfortunately, I have dismantled my modules several months ago. It was before Doug72 came with his crucial improvements. Now, when I see all your achievements, I regret that I had given up too early.

Berthil, your design is wonderful. I like your sense for technical aesthetics. Your versions of the lift, rotary dumper and power station are excellent. I am looking forward to your (video) Pictures from the exhibition.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Jonas

[MajklSpajkl]

Let's not forget @dunes here, if we are patting ourselves on the shoulder . His work with digital files and his ideas for central worm gear shaft without custom parts also helped a whole lot. Big THX!

@Berthil, thx for extra photos. Indeed, simple works best. I have my small setup for our exhibition all over our living room and am tweeking quite a lot of little problems that are popping out like mushrooms after the rain.

I am having some problems with the lift platform. I see you guys don't brace the 20:12 (Doug) or 24:8 (Berthill) from the outer side. I feel like because I did that,  it might add more friction in the whole drivetrain, hence worse performance for me. I'll try without it and see what I get.

Another weird thing is that my trains are derailing after they go through rail switch (passing module). I think it's something with the switch, but I don't have another to try it. It looks like"the heart" (I think that's how we call the part where to rails meet in kinda x shape part) is to high and the back axle of cart drives over it... I hope another switch, which I'll borrow, will make things right.

P.S.: Man, I wish I make it one day to LEGO world Utrecht 

[MajklSpajkl]

@Doug72: Just found a workaround over that new jumper plate 3L with 2 stund in the middle that berthill uses for 24:8 setup. You can use one regular jumper plate and then next to it a 1x1 round plate with hollow stud so it can connect to the middle of the gear rack.

 @Berthil ...that pins alignment  I only did it in the Bugatti Chiron set...

[Berthil]

Thanks @Jonas and welcome back. You can always build it again :)

And also a big thank you @dunes for the LDD files and worm gear idea (sorry, thought that one was from Doug).

@MajklSpajkl, I'm not sure what you mean but if it's the passing module make sure the gear racks are also half stud offset there, otherwise the train indeed derails.

Listening to the motor I decided to remove a bit of weight from the counterweights so total weight is now bit less than train and carrier.  Before that I could hear the motor had to work harder going down and work less hard going up with a train full of balls. Now it's equal.

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Berthil

[dunes]

I would say it's teamwork.

[MajklSpajkl]

4 minutes ago, Berthil said:

I'm not sure what you mean but if it's the passing module make sure the gear racks are also half stud offset there, otherwise the train indeed derails.

Listening to the motor I decided to remove a bit of weight from the counterweights so total weight is now bit less than train and carrier.  Before that I could hear the motor had to work harder going down and work less hard going up with a train full of balls. Now it's equal.

 

The passing module itself works fine. Problem is with the switch tracks.

When the train comes from the curve back to the straight track it derails when passing the actual moving part of the switch, which does seem to have some friction in it or maybe the spring in it is to loose.

Regarding the counter weight. My lift also strugls more when going down so I am thinking of doing the same as you, but since i only have a full block of steel it means going back to the hardware store :-) But I'll try to get some washers this time...

 

[doug72]

25 minutes ago, dunes said:

I would say it's teamwork.

Agree, and thanks for all your LDD work & ideas.

[doug72]

17 hours ago, Berthil said:

Thanks @Jonas and welcome back. You can always build it again :)

And also a big thank you @dunes for the LDD files and worm gear idea (sorry, thought that one was from Doug).

@MajklSpajkl, I'm not sure what you mean but if it's the passing module make sure the gear racks are also half stud offset there, otherwise the train indeed derails.

Listening to the motor I decided to remove a bit of weight from the counterweights so total weight is now bit less than train and carrier.  Before that I could hear the motor had to work harder going down and work less hard going up with a train full of balls. Now it's equal.

 

The worm idea was mine but it used a 3D printed part for the worm  gearbox, @dunes came up with a Lego legal solution for the worm drive.

@Jonas Your earlier comments when I first started building the Akiyuki train system put me on the path to improving the rotary dumper,  after many failures to get the camlock system to work, you should build the modified version and the elevator.

I think we need to list out all the various improvements that have been made to various modules.

Doug

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Doug72

[dunes]

8 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

I think we need to list out all the various improvements that have been made to various modules.

I suggest we edit the first post.

example:

• Module name
• picture original design
• picture(s) from our design(s)
• link to LXF and instructions

Edited October 5, 2018 by dunes
typo

[doug72]

Low Height Vertical ball loader by Doug72

A compact low lift loader with a reduced footprint. The vertical lift chain is 24 links long and kept taut by two small shock absorbers.
The train reverser is two lobe with step up 20/12 gearing for use with small 6 notch sprocket wheels.

One full rotation is 24 links per train trip cycle. 3L pins are used to carry balls and can lift 21 balls per trip. More can be added as long as a gap is left on the chain to ensure no balls drop after train departs. Gearing took awhile to sort out the position for the 8T /40T gears to achieve correct synchronisation with train release.

By enclosing the lift each pair of lift pins can carry three balls instead of only one.

Reverser arranged for end on loading of balls but could be re-arranged for side loading using a Through Module.

A short video:

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Doug72