[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[Frequenzberater]

Again, I appreciate your great work guys! I would love to build the train System over holiday but I have to admit, that I have lost the thread a bit. 

Are there pdf instructions for the latest lift/rotary dumper module? 

Have you guys improved any other modules of the existing train systems or can I build the remaining parts according to Akiyukis official instructions? 

Are .bsx partlists available? 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Frequenzberater

[doug72]

8 minutes ago, Frequenzberater said:

Again, I appreciate your great work guys! I would love to build the train System over holiday but I have to admit, that I have lost the thread a bit. 

Are there pdf instructions for the latest lift/rotary dumper module? 

Have you guys improved any other modules of the existing train systems or can I build the remaining parts according to Akiyukis official instructions? Are .bsx partlists available? 

See the first post (on page 1) in this tread which has a full list MODs and improvements including links to instructions etc.

PDF instructions for the rotary dumper by @Courbet
LDD instructions by @dunes

[Frequenzberater]

Thanks! In the meantime I discovered the updated first page,but I still have some questions:

What I want to build:

- two of the train units with electrical switch 

Are there any Information besides the pictures? 

Edit: Noted that its the original Akiyuki design 

 

- modified rotary dumper 

PDF files available 

I suppose there is no bsx partlists? 

 

- modified elevator with counter weights 

Ldd file available

 

- modified double crossover passing module 

Are there any Information besides the pictures? 

Edit: Noted that I just need the original simple passing module 

 

- original loader unit 

PDF files available 

 

- modified reverser unit 

Can it be combined with the original loader unit? 

LDD files available 

 

General question: Is it possible to create bsx partlists from an LDD file? 

It seems that its time for me to install the Digital Designer and have a closer Look to it. 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Frequenzberater

[Frequenzberater]

Another stupid question:

The track types I have to use are declinated on bricklink as "Track Plastic", right? 

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Frequenzberater said:

Another stupid question:

The track types I have to use are declinated on bricklink as "Track Plastic", right? 

The track parts are normal Lego parts except the double crossover which is a TrixBrix 3D printed item.

Re your previous queries:-

Most of the answers can be found in later posts.
Origianal instructions can be found in the Akiyuki link on page 1

I believe parts list can be generated from LDD files.

Train units require PF switch which has the small black pole c/o switch.
Train mod can be found on Page 8 Aug 20th & 22nd. to replace 3 part axle with a single 9L axle.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Doug72

[Frequenzberater]

Thank you very much @Doug72!

I will have to have a further Look to the Lego Digital Designer. 

But before I put further effort on it, do you think this would be a feasible setup?:

Would it work or do I forgot something? 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Frequenzberater

[doug72]

3 hours ago, Frequenzberater said:

Thank you very much @Doug72!

I will have to have a further Look to the Lego Digital Designer. 

But before I put further effort on it, do you think this would be a feasible setup?:

Would it work or do I forgot something? 

Yes that will work OK with two trains and with one train without passing module. The passing module takes up a lot of length.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Doug72

[Berthil]

5 hours ago, Frequenzberater said:

Would it work or do I forgot something? 

It will work like Doug said but also will take up a lot of space with the passing module. If you apply the 24:8 modification to the lift it will run fast enough with 1 train. It worked 7 event days without a glitch. The 24:8 mod you can read in earlier posts. I will use the passing module only when I use a lot of track length e.g. when I use the trains to close a GBC circuit.

6 hours ago, Doug72 said:

I believe parts list can be generated from LDD files.

Correct. I use Stud.io to import LDD files and directly from there you can create a Bricklink wanted list to start picking your inventory and/or start ordering.

7 hours ago, Doug72 said:

See the first post (on page 1) in this tread which has a full list MODs and improvements including links to instructions etc.

I see you mention drive gear change on the carrier, may be add the 24:8 ratio? Must be used together with counterweights.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Berthil

[Frequenzberater]

Thanks a lot for enlighting me. I will check out stud.io at the weekend. 

[doug72]

Swing Loader GBC Train module:- Progress Stalled.

The concept of a Swing Loader has been proven but implementation and progress has stalled due to a number of issues as the next stage of the build is reached.
So back to the drawing board, strip down and start again !!!!!!!!

Video show partial success - excuse the poor lighting.

 

Problems:-

Timing has proved extremely difficult to set up, as a dwell period is required at each end of the transfer cycle to get the ball carrier to sit correctly back down onto the train and push down the trip rod that engages the interrupter gear for the  train reverser and for the train to depart. At loading end to give time for balls to enter the carrier.
I have yet to reach building the ball input hopper.

Train reverser:-
Tried using different rotors i.e with four, three & two lobes. Four lobe work the best but still  sometimes released the train to early.
Train reverser uses the standard 24T /worm gear,  possible 20T or 36T gear with new worm might work.

Any jams causes the 20T gear engaging with the curved gear rack to skip upsetting the timing.
The curved gear racks have too much flex as I only used a half circle, meaning the drive gear can skip when it nears the end of the rack.
Only one side is driven, both sides should be better .

Full circle with better bracing to the the turntables would be better but will have to cannibalise an old MOC to get enough curved gear rack parts.

 It has proved impossible to synchronise the train reverser with the swing arms drive.
Sometimes the train will depart before the ball carrier is lifted off the train, and when it returns sometimes fails the enter the lifting frame correctly.

Improvements:-

Swing arms to improve and make stronger to stop the flexing and find an alternative way to reverse the swing, possible using trip pins to activate the reverser driving ring.
The snap over system has worked OK so can be used again.

I have learnt a lot during this build and the Mark 2 version WILL work.

Comments, Ideas & possible solutions would be welcome.

Doug

Edited November 29, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

Success at last - had a Eureka moment.

Mark 2 version with improvements and full synchronisation now built & has been tested for over 1-1/2 hours of continuous running without getting out of sync.

Next step build input ball hopper.

More info to come.

[Frequenzberater]

Sounds promising! 

One question regarding the Ldd files:

When there is written "Ldd instructions by..." on the first page, am I right that the files basicly contains the assembled 3D model or is there somewhere a hidden magic button which provides me with the instructions? 

(when I open the Ldd files in Stud.io 2.0 and click the "instructions" icon, there is nothing) 

 

So I expect that I have to estimate the sequence of assembling by myself, or do I miss something? 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Frequenzberater

[doug72]

Click these links that contain the LDD files for various modified modules

https://bricksafe.com/pages/dunes

https://bricksafe.com/files/dunes/akiyuki-train/ldd/elevator MajklSpajkl.lxf

LDD file for the elevator https://bricksafe.com/files/dunes/akiyuki-train/ldd/elevator doug.lxf

Edited December 1, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Frequenzberater said:

Sounds promising! 

One question regarding the Ldd files:

When there is written "Ldd instructions by..." on the first page, am I right that the files basicly contains the assembled 3D model or is there somewhere a hidden magic button which provides me with the instructions? 

(when I open the Ldd files in Stud.io 2.0 and click the "instructions" icon, there is nothing) 

 

So I expect that I have to estimate the sequence of assembling by myself, or do I miss something? 

After LDD file loads. Click the building instruction button on  right hand side of the top bar, building steps will then be generated.

[9v system]

has anyone been able to get the akiyuki version of the rotary dumper to work well?

[Berthil]

3 hours ago, 9v system said:

has anyone been able to get the akiyuki version of the rotary dumper to work well?

Here nobody as far as I know. The modified version described in this topic works like a dream.

[Frequenzberater]

9 hours ago, Doug72 said:

After LDD file loads. Click the building instruction button on  right hand side of the top bar, building steps will then be generated.

As I said, when I click the instructions icon, barely nothing happens. This is what I got:

One single step for the whole model. Do I have to mark something before, or adjust the amount of steps in any way? 

[doug72]

That’s. Not the same as the LDD program I have.

BUT on your screen shot where says Step 1 click the small right arrow to move forward to the next step or the left arrow to step backwards.

8 hours ago, 9v system said:

has anyone been able to get the akiyuki version of the rotary dumper to work well?

Nope I  gave up many moons ago, my modified version is 100% reliable and well proven by @Berthil and several have now been built.

Doug

Edited December 2, 2018 by Doug72

[RohanBeckett]

I wouldn't be surprised if Akiyuki browsed here, and borrowed Doug/Berthill's Mods! ;)

[Frequenzberater]

2 hours ago, Doug72 said:

That’s. Not the same as the LDD program I have.

BUT on your screen shot where says Step 1 click the small right arrow to move forward to the next step or the left arrow to step backwards.

Nope I  gave up many moons ago, my modified version is 100% reliable and well proven by @Berthil and several have now been built.

Doug

There are no other steps. There is only step 1.

I installed "Stud.io 2.0". What is the LDD Program you use? I will try that one. 

[doug72]

Swing Loader MK 2 Improved version.
There were several problems with the first version, which now identified and fixed. See video below.

Swinging  Arm Structure:-
The two swing arms with curved racks flexed too much causing the drive gear to skip teeth at each end of rack travel.
Stronger cross frames added to each end of the curved gear racks.
Counterweight moved onto centre line for better balance.

Lifting Frame:-
Two 5L beams added to give a slight tilt downward at the entry end to give smoother entry for the ball carrier & to ensure carrier sits down correctly onto the train when loaded with balls.

Gearing:-
The final 20T double bevel drive gear which engages with the curved gear rack was prone to skip as the axle was only supported on one side.  The axle on both sides of the 20T gear are now supported.

Timing:-
Interrupter gear could not be synchronised with the swing cycle.

After careful study determined it took 72 revolutions of the 24T gear driven by the train to swing the arms back and forth for each transfer cycle.
With original train reverser with a 24T / worm gear it was impossible using any rotor combination, i.e 4, 3, 2 or 1 lobes to get train to depart on time & prevent out of phase premature train releases as seen in the earlier video.

Improved train reverser has a 3:1 gearing reduction stage before the standard 24T/ worm gear for trip rotor. Using  a single lobe on the rotor gives the required 72:1 reduction needed to synchronise with the swing arms. 
This reverses the train while the arms are stationary during the short dwell period after ball carrier is placed back on the train.

In order to make timing and synchronising easier I kept the interrupter gear BUT once timing is correctly set it is permanently engaged & locked.
To set timing the clutch gear is dis-engaged until the ball carrier is close to landing back onto the train when gear is re-engaged and locked.
It took quite a lot of trial & error to set this !!

To achieve this the two 16T gears were replaced by 8T / 24T to give the 3:1 ratio using a modified white 24T clutch gear with a red driving ring.

 

24T Clutch Gear:-
This is modified from a white 24T clutch gear with all the internals removed and a 16T driving ring gear pressed into the centre.
Used this on a previous builds, I know its non Lego approved, won’t satisfy the purists but it works and should be an official Lego part.

Now been tested until batteries ran out after 2 hours.

Next stage is to build the ball input hopper and the loading system.

Video:

 

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Doug72

[Berthil]

@Doug72 nice idea and well executed without giving up! 

I just finished designing a VERY compact train layout with two loaders, two unloaders and two trains that fits on a 60 x 200 cm space where all trains run through all modules.
The second loader will be have one or two pneumatic scissor lifts. The compressor of 100% LEGO with pressure switch I have already build.
Now waiting for parts to complete the track and starting to design the pneumatic scissor lift.

[doug72]

2 hours ago, Berthil said:

@Doug72 nice idea and well executed without giving up! 

I just finished designing a VERY compact train layout with two loaders, two unloaders and two trains that fits on a 60 x 200 cm space where all trains run through all modules.
The second loader will be have one or two pneumatic scissor lifts. The compressor of 100% LEGO with pressure switch I have already build.
Now waiting for parts to complete the track and starting to design the pneumatic scissor lift.

Thanks, just the loading part to sort out. Running a lot smoother than Ver 1 & appears to be able to reset timing itself if something upsets it, just have to do dummy run back and forth.
The double white 24T clutch gears in the final drive to the gear rack slips as ball carrier lands on the train and re-sets the timing.

Looking forward to seeing your compact layout and which modules you have used -  60 x 200 cm is a tight space - impossible with standard lego track curves.
My proposed GBC train layout in my attic is just over 60cm wide but with up to 4m length - can just squeeze in 1/2 circles of curved track at each end.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

Swing GBC Train Loader Completed:

Ball input hopper with control gate installed,  loads 15 balls per trip.

 

[doug72]

On 11/17/2018 at 9:52 AM, alanburchill said:

Another tip... if you don't have a LEGO rubber band... I used a Loom Band from my Daughter and it worked really well ;) 

Thanks for that tip, I now have loads of loom bands that my grandchildren were about to get rid off.
They are surprisingly strong, very stretchy & powerful although they are only 15mm diam.

And cheap at £1 for 300 pce.

Tested on my Swing Loader and works great.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Doug72