[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[rskamen]

Thank you @Doug72 and @Berthil for your advice and comments. I might have some of the Lego cord from another set that I have not yet built, or possibly different wheels (I have two alternative sets of wheels to try). I do like the Wheel 4185 for it's size, and how it looks while turning. https://www.bricklink.com/v2/search.page?q=4185&utm_source=rebrickable#T=A

[Berthil]

Nicely done! May be to get you started again @Doug72 :)
 

 

[doug72]

3 hours ago, Berthil said:

Nicely done! May be to get you started again @Doug72 :)
 

@Berthil Thanks for posting that.

Its a bit similar to my Through Dumper module. which used a shuttle train unit which runs along 16L rail beams.
Lifting the hopper on & off the train unit could use a simple sideways swing loader if can get geometry right.

I will have to put my thinking cap on !

The shuttle car appears to have gear racks on the underside that engage with the series of driven 20T gears in centre of the track.

To keep in the spirit of Akiyuki Train system it will need reveresers at each end to operate the loading & unloading.

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Doug72

[Berthil]

@rskamen took these pictures. Can't make much more out of it without creating a BI.

[rskamen]

14 hours ago, Berthil said:

@rskamen took these pictures. Can't make much more out of it without creating a BI.

I do see a few differences in the system you built vs. the system I built. I will post some photos in a little while. Mine is far less skillfully done than yours, and I will attempt to modify mine to your better build. Thank you for posting these.

[rskamen]

As you can see, I have a long way to go in obtaining the correct colors, fixing or modifying sections, etc. I am awaiting official TLG rubber bands. I may also replace the RED 12L Technic brick (in the @Berthil counter-weight system) with an 11L DBG beam just to keep colors more consistent. Or just two 3L beams. Only need the double thickness where the axles go through for added support.I will try to set up the layout just so I can test everything. I did work on the timing of the Rotary. It was releasing the train too soon, or too late, causing jams. I think I finally got it working properly for each revolution. I do find that the elevator almost grinds to a halt while going up, but the train feels strong and no problem in the rotary dumper or on the elevator going down. There does not seem to be anything binding or undo friction. I will replace the 6 AA batteries and see if that makes a big difference. I am begging my wife to use or dining room table to test the layout. Setting up on a carpeted floor is far from ideal.

Edited June 16, 2019 by rskamen

[doug72]

17 hours ago, rskamen said:

  I did work on the timing of the Rotary. It was releasing the train too soon, or too late, causing jams. I think I finally got it working properly for each revolution.
 I am begging my wife to use or dining room table to test the layout. Setting up on a carpeted floor is far from ideal.

Did you use the both adjustments when setting the timing using the 56/8 (and 16/16 gears ?
See page 3 of this thread.

Also guide beams in centre & sides of dumper & bridge tracks can help with de-railing problems see photo.

re dining room table, I was able to use ours once a thick table cloth put ‘a on it !!!.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Doug72

[doug72]

Akiyuki GBC Train: Lift & Tilt Unloader (WIP)

Test rig built to sort out the geometry required for the lifting ball carrier off the train unit and tilt it to unload balls in a similar fashion that coal trucks unloaded the coal into coaling towers for fuelling railway steam engines.

Z60 turntables are used as pivot points and the ball carrier has to rotate slightly more than 90º to ensure all balls will roll out.

This can be done by two methods.

1/. auto reversing system with worm drive to the Z60 turntables
or
b/. A simple constantly rotating crank system to swing the lift arms and would allow Z28 turntables to be used as pivot points.

Could also add LEGO Slope 75° 2 x 2 x 3 Hollow Studs, Smooth (3684 / 30499) inside the ball carrier which would ensure balls roll ot when in the 90º dump position.

Train to depart once empty ball carrier back on the train.

Train will ball carrier on reversing unit.

Ball carrier lifted off & swung to dump position

Edited June 17, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

10 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Did you use the both adjustments when setting the timing using the 56/8 (and 16/16 gears ?
See page 3 of this thread.

Also guide beams in centre & sides of dumper & bridge tracks can help with de-railing problems see photo.

re dining room table, I was able to use ours once a thick table cloth put ‘a on it !!!.

@Doug72 I only used the 16/16 gears in making my adjustments. I will also look at the 56/8 if I experience any further alignment problems. I do notice that you have one additional 4L gear rack in front of the red 1x2 tile. That gear rack extends into the big double yellow circle gears. I don't have that. My gear rack inside the Rotary Dumper ends to the left of the 1x2 tile. Did you add that additional gear rack? I don't think I missed it in the instructions. I have the correct amount and location of the guide beams. Any thoughts on why the Elevator slows down while ascending, but everything else works well including the Dumper.

@Doug72 - Thanks for referring me to your post on page 3 regarding the timing of the Rotary. Very easy to understand and will make future adjustments (if needed) a more precise set up.

[doug72]

2 hours ago, rskamen said:

@Doug72 I only used the 16/16 gears in making my adjustments. I will also look at the 56/8 if I experience any further alignment problems. I do notice that you have one additional 4L gear rack in front of the red 1x2 tile. That gear rack extends into the big double yellow circle gears. I don't have that. My gear rack inside the Rotary Dumper ends to the left of the 1x2 tile. Did you add that additional gear rack? I don't think I missed it in the instructions. I have the correct amount and location of the guide beams. Any thoughts on why the Elevator slows down while ascending, but everything else works well including the Dumper.

@Doug72 - Thanks for referring me to your post on page 3 regarding the timing of the Rotary. Very easy to understand and will make future adjustments (if needed) a more precise set up.

The setting using the 56T gear is is 1 tooth, the 16T moved 1 Tooth is the fine adjustment, equates to a 1/2 tooth on the 56T gear.

The extra 4L rack was added to ensure train engaged better to leave the dumper, not really need once everything is level.

re elevator:- which gears are you using before the worm gear ?

See pages 11 & 12 for how the worm drive elevator evolved.

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

12 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

re elevator:- which gears are you using before the worm gear ?

 

The 8T gear on the train wheel drives a 24T gear on the elevator which also has a 20T double bevel gear on the same axle right next to it.. The 20T double bevel drives a 12T double bevel gear on the axle that turns the worm gear. Hopefully I am making myself clear.

[doug72]

12 hours ago, rskamen said:

The 8T gear on the train wheel drives a 24T gear on the elevator which also has a 20T double bevel gear on the same axle right next to it.. The 20T double bevel drives a 12T double bevel gear on the axle that turns the worm gear. Hopefully I am making myself clear.

Try changing the 20T & 12T gears with two 16T gears.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

5 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Try changing the 20T & 12T gears with two 16tT gears.

I will give that a try. I have plenty of 16T gears as my collection of parts keeps growing. Thanks

[ozacek]

On 4/6/2019 at 12:11 PM, rskamen said:

Great to hear from folks. I too am finishing obtaining the last of the parts needed for the Catch & Spin Robots. 

Me too! It looks like such an interesting mechanism (though colorwise I find it a bit too monochrome, so I made some adjustments).

It's great that two of the half-turntables can be replaced with the new 28T gear, since I just learned that the turntables cannot be separated without damaging them.

[doug72]

4 hours ago, ozacek said:

It's great that two of the half-turntables can be replaced with the new 28T gear, since I just learned that the turntables cannot be separated without damaging them.

Don't think you can subsitute the new 28T gear for a Z28 turntable (gear half) as it has an centre axle hole.
There is an axle that passes through the centre of the Z29 part which drives the robots and the two lugs are needed to mount other parts.

Z28 turntable can be parted with care without damaging the part with the gear teeth, its the other half that can get damaged slightly.

N.B this post would better in the GBC General discussion.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Doug72

[ozacek]

1 hour ago, Doug72 said:

There is an axle that passes through the centre of the Z29 part which drives the robots and the two lugs are needed to mount other parts.

True, that's why you can only substitute 2 out of 4. It works for the other two, since the axle that goes through is fixed to the turntable, so it doesn't make a difference if we use the 28T gear instead (like on the picture).

[doug72]

Update: Lift & Tilt Module

Crank only system found to be unsuitable and discarded.

Instead devised a rack operated by a simple crank arm to get the desired range of swing.

Mark1:- used an 11L rack but this was not long enough to rotate the Z60 turntable through full range and discraded.

Mark 2:- used a  LEGO Housing 2 x 15 x 3m F/gear Rack (18940) with a LEGO Gear Rack 14 x 2m with groove (18942)
Difficult to mesh the gear rack with the Z60 turntable and unable to get desired range of movement and discarded.

Mark 3:- Sucessful.
Gear rack 14 x 2m used in a custom built guide housing to mesh with the Z60 T/T.
A lot better arrangement and almost achieve the required swing to lift hopper off the train and swing up & over to dump.
After a lot of trial & error finally almost got it right but balls sometimes did not roll out.

As train car will be used in a shuttle mode balls will always dump from the same side so I have added wedge bricks inside the ball carrier to ensure balls roll out OK when at the dump position.

The drive from the train reverser will be via worm gear & gear (24 or 40T) gear to rotate the two rack crank arms in a constant direction.

Modified ball hopper:

Next stage: build other rack unit, the support framing and connect to a train reverser unit, timing to adjust and when OK build the ball outlet collection hopper.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

My video skills leave a lot to be desired. And my kitchen makes an awful backdrop, but here are a few quick videos while I was testing the timing of the modules. Working on an area for the layout, but everything is working rather well. 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by rskamen

[doug72]

Looks good - I see you have the 20/12 gears in place so did you find what was making it slow before, batteries or ?

Rotary dumper runs smoothly - did you have to adjust the timing ?

Re Video, same with me always shaky when  trying to hold the camera while operating the modules.

 

[rskamen]

3 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Looks good - I see you have the 20/12 gears in place so did you find what was making it slow before, batteries or ?

Rotary dumper runs smoothly - did you have to adjust the timing ?

Re Video, same with me always shaky when  trying to hold the camera while operating the modules.

 

I have not yet tried the 16/16 gears. Takes a bit of dismantling to do that. I find after a few runs, it gets slower and slower. I will put fresh AA batteries in the train unit as a first try. Then the gears if needed.

Yes, the Rotary Dumper runs perfectly. As they say. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". But I did try to fine tune by one gear tooth, but went right back to it's current setting :)

Once I have the entire loop set up, with the passing module, and both train units running, I can concentrate on better video. I will have to commandeer a section of my living room floor. The dining room table is off limits, and also a tad too small. 

[doug72]

15 hours ago, rskamen said:

I have not yet tried the 16/16 gears. Takes a bit of dismantling to do that. I find after a few runs, it gets slower and slower. I will put fresh AA batteries in the train unit as a first try. Then the gears if needed.

Puzzling !!  Something must be binding somewhere, suggest following checks, without train unit on the elevator.

1/. By hand turn the 24T gear to check if any tight spots as elevator moves.

2/. Ensure the four 12T bevel gears that engage on the racks  are not too tight on the axles.

3/. Check elevator platform is level, i.e. all 12T bevel gears at same point on all four racks,
      I had an issue when they weren’t  causing moving platform to twist.

4/. Remove the two 12T bevel gears that drive the worm gear and test if elevator platform raise & lowers OK by hand OK.

5/. Check rack sections are pressed home on the studded uprights. My elevator sometimes gives a slight jolt  as the 12T bevel gear  passes over the joint between the 4L gear racks.

6/. My elevator runs OK with the 20/12 bevel gears so no need to change to 16/16.

7/. Try adding some more weight into counterweight cylinders.

Good luck with finding the problem.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

5 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Puzzling !!  Something must be binding somewhere, suggest following checks, without train unit on the elevator.

1/. By hand turn the 24T gear to check if any tight spots as elevator moves.

2/. Ensure the four 12T bevel gears that engage on the racks  are not too tight on the axles.

3/. Check elevator platform is level, i.e. all 12T bevel gears at same point on all four racks,
      I had an issue when they weren’t  causing moving platform to twist.

4/. Remove the two 12T bevel gears that drive the worm gear and test if elevator platform raise & lowers OK by hand OK.

5/. Check rack sections are pressed home on the studded uprights. My elevator sometimes gives a slight jolt  as the 12T bevel gear  passes over the joint between the 4L gear racks.

6/. My elevator runs OK with the 20/12 bevel gears so no need to change to 16/16.

7/. Try adding some more weight into counterweight cylinders.

Good luck with finding the problem.

@Doug72 Thank you for all of those great suggestions. I have tried some of them already. Some are new to me and I will work on those to see if everything runs smoothly. I have raised the elevator numerous times by hand rotating the 24T gear and it seemed OK. Yes, sometimes a gear rack will move slightly out of position and needs to be reseated. If I "help" the elevator up using slight pressure with my finger underneath it, it goes very smoothly. Maybe later today I will have time for fresh batteries. That may cure all!  I appreciate all your time in helping along.

[doug72]

2 hours ago, rskamen said:

. That may cure all!  I appreciate all your time in helping along.

No problem.

Which motor are using in the train unit M or L - I use the L motor for the elevator & dumper as it has more power & speed.

Currently doing battle with my latest module which now on Mk.5 version to get required travel from their gear racks that swing the lift arms, had a spectacular disintegration as something jammed.

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

2 hours ago, Doug72 said:

No problem.

Which motor are using in the train unit M or L - I use the L motor for the elevator & dumper as it has more power & speed.

Currently doing battle with my latest module which now on Mk.5 version to get required travel from their gear racks that swing the lift arms, had a spectacular disintegration as something jammed.

 

I am using the M motor. I do not have any L motors just lying around. I looked closely at you L motor conversion. I might buy an L motor and give it a go. I admire your inventiveness and your drive to make things work. If I had a big inventory of parts, I might try something new. I am also debating about taking my Catch & Spin robots apart and donate the pieces to @Berthil Ver 3 Ball Factory. It's a cute module, but I find it a little frustrating with dropping balls.

[rskamen]

I checked all your ideas 1 thru 6. Then changed batteries. Only marginally better ascending on the elevator. Since it runs well with only a little upward pressure from my finger under the elevator, I think #7 - more weight in the counter-weight cylinders. I believe that will take care of the sluggish ascent. Will let you know after my next quick trip to Home Depot to pick up steel washers.

Edited June 19, 2019 by rskamen