[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[Fyredog]

I am considering adapting the direction selection from Type 1 into the type 2.....

[Fyredog]

So here are the before and after mods to the Akiyuki Reverse Module.  So far working flawlessly.

 

IMG_4797 by Steve Niedzwiecke, on Flickr

 

IMG_4796 by Steve Niedzwiecke, on Flickr

[Fyredog]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:05 AM, Berthil said:

My take on the use of the narrow tracks for narrow radius turns. Original Akiyuki version lifts the train up on the inside creating unbalance on entry and exit (and uses a lot of slopes that get damaged). This version runs smoother but requires the tracks to be a brick high.

@Berthil - Do you have any other photos so I can try this out?

[Berthil]

1 hour ago, Fyredog said:

@Berthil - Do you have any other photos so I can try this out?

Only that one.

[Jude The Lego Dude]

@doug72 I finished the PDF for the new turntable. I think @Berthil is thinking of doing his own version using a Z60 turntable, instead of Z56, like in mine. I used a Z56 in mine because all my Z60 turntables have lots of friction and my Z56s are smooth. Shouldn't be too challenging to make a Z60 version.
Anyway PDF here; https://bricksafe.com/pages/Jude_The_Lego_Dude/my-gbc-modules/turn-table

 

Also how is the sliding passing unit going? 

Thanks 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Jude The Lego Dude
That render looks dam nice, if I say so myself

[pleegwat]

Just had a stray thought. These turntables turn 90° corners. But could one be adjusted to 180° for a reverser?

Or could you build a large one for two trains with integrated reverser, so it acts as a passing module?

[Jude The Lego Dude]

9 hours ago, pleegwat said:

Just had a stray thought. These turntables turn 90° corners. But could one be adjusted to 180° for a reverser?

I use my one for a 180 degree reverser, even the PDF has one of the on ramps set up so that it can work in 180 degree set up, just by taking off the other train track side. Thats how I am going to personally use it in my train layout. 

the turning passing unit would be very funny to watch. I might actually see if I can figure that out. Thanks for the idea

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Jude The Lego Dude
added more words

[Jude The Lego Dude]

I made a PDF for my modification of the unloader. 
It uses the @doug72 idea of counter weight tires. Also @HRU_Bricks additional tire counter weights. 
I also changed the 'arms' that hold the ball container, so that they are liftarms, gives the entry and exist a little more wriggle room. Also the technic bionicle eyes are secured a lot better then the original 2x3 plate and slopes, in my experience these things fell off why too often. 
Here;
https://bricksafe.com/pages/Jude_The_Lego_Dude/my-gbc-modules/type-2-unloader-mods

Also I am working on a future train layout, I finished moding my type 1 crane to type 2, and it is now dismantled to document the parts to order more to build it properly according to my io file. 
Here is the planned layout.


Also I long term tested the V4 turntable at a 2 day show. It had problems, as expected, the worst of which was the worm gearbox disconnecting, I have since made changes and updated the io file for anyone interested. Mostly though it was ok, It stayed in the whole time and really didnt give me too many headaches. 
you can see it in action here;

 

[Berthil]

I got the Crane Loader for the Type 2 train Stud.io file from @Jude The Lego Dude. It was on my GBC bucket list for a long time, it was 12 years ago Akiyuki has made the Crane Loader for the Type 1 train. If I understood correctly, @dunes has made the first version of the Stud.io file with a new frame eliminating the baseplates. Further work was done by Jude on the carrier and implementation of the gear rack and clutch timing system. The gear rack and clutch is about the same system that I used in my version of a mechanical Container Transporter. Still a lot work was needed to make the Type 2 Crane Loader fully functional, mainly because the Type 2 train has different dimensions and the Stud.io file didn't account for that. Below the video is a full list of modification on the Stud.io file.

I'm happy to present a functional Crane Loader for the Type 2 train with free building instructions on Rebrickable. I'll make a video soon of all the train modules I have in one layout with explanation on how the train system works. It is still a real crowd pleaser at events and with the help of the GBC community we now have more reliable versions of many modules.

Modifications;

• Type 2 container is 2 studs higher, 1 stud wider and 1 stud longer compared to Type 1 train, adjustments on container position, container locks, train station drive and inbox
• Container position too high for inbox for balls to drop in, inbox ramp 1 stud up, container grabber and container locks 1 stud down, inbox ramp opener switch one stud up and limiter added.
• Carrier direction switch in train drive station wrong direction, placed one gear in-between. Clutch switch limiter added for reliability.
• Almost all gears supported on both sides.
• Train drive station reverser has double switch but must be one to have two clutch switch triggers for back and forth movement of the carrier before the train leaves the station.
• 3L universal joints removed and replaced by straight axles from train drive station to carrier, train drive station one plate up and repositioning of train for correct drive axle and container alignment, drive axles one stud up and converted to studless in the carrier frame.
• 64782 bottom panel on carrier cannot pass drive axles, re-design together with inbox emptier trigger re-design and repositioned higher. Attachment points added to carrier guide.
• Two 73090b counterweights for better weight balance.
• Carrier gear rack length longer for correct timing, idle on drive end and correct timing of the Inbox gate.
• Carrier gear rack locks in place with new limiters at the bottom, sometimes the whole assemble would come up which results in skipping gears on the gear rack. The bottom wheel lock maybe can improved by adding light tension by a rubber band to prevent any gear skipping.
• Train reverser gearing adjusted from 1:1 to 12:20 for more power and movement time. Timing about fits with the Rotary Dumper cycle (20s) and is about the same as the Type 1 crane loader. I'm not sure about battery life but I expect it will be good. Battery life can be extended by replacing the 12:20 gear combination by 8:24 gears but cycle time will go up of course.
• Braces added to lock position of the train drive station.

[Berthil]

I've tried to explain the Type 2 system as I get questions on how it works.

 

[DilithiumHydroxide]

Dunno if anyone had this as an issue-and I no longer have pictures since I took it apart a while ago, but the elevator (worm drive) had problem after problem after problem for me.

Time after time, with counterweights, it was unable to lift itself (WITH an L motor), and I had to add like 3 beams along to bottom to stop the worm drive from ripping the elevator
in half.
Edit: and it STILL tried to force itself apart.

Anyone else have this as an issue?

Edited May 20, 2024 by DilithiumHydroxide
forgot something

[Berthil]

Welcome. Why don't you use the elevator I use with the best of both worlds. Drive on all 4 corners without a worm gear and higher speed. It's in the video above your post including links to free building instructions.

[DilithiumHydroxide]

11 minutes ago, Berthil said:

Welcome. Why don't you use the elevator I use with the best of both worlds. Drive on all 4 corners without a worm gear and higher speed. It's in the video above your post including links to free building instructions.

thanks mate. I'll probably build this for next year's convention, if I decide to go with a train system.
Edit: in your opinion, what's the best train config motor/battery wise?

Edited May 20, 2024 by DilithiumHydroxide

[Berthil]

5 minutes ago, DilithiumHydroxide said:

what's the best train config motor/battery wise

I run my trains with M motor and rechargeable PF battery at 7 day events. The trains running the Rotary Dumper and Crane Loader run for 4 hours before they need recharging, the trains with the lighter running modules sometimes a full event day.

[DilithiumHydroxide]

6 minutes ago, Berthil said:

I run my trains with M motor and rechargeable PF battery at 7 day events. The trains running the Rotary Dumper and Crane Loader run for 4 hours before they need recharging, the trains with the lighter running modules sometimes a full event day.

Time for some 3rd party purchases 😭

[DilithiumHydroxide]

On a different note-how hard does anyone thing getting a train with Powered Up would be? The man difficulty is that there is no switch, so I suppose you'd have to use the color sensor and instead of a spring loaded bar, have it swap the color. Hub/motor wise, this is probably your best bet?

https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/technic-large-motor-88013

https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/hub-88009

but talk about being mad expensive tho

[Jude The Lego Dude]

I have been playing with the possibility of making a Falkirk Wheel for the type 2 trains. 
At first this seemed difficult, after some further thought it seemed very difficult. 

Anyway I made some progress. I have not built it physically yet, only digitally. I hope to do so soon. I still need to figure out the entry and exit ramps (done) as well as a timing system which releases the trains into the stations simultaneously (a linear version of the passing unit but with a linkage between the stations). 

I had desired to have a mechanical link between the trains so they could detect each others presence, but this proved impossible, so I settled for timing there entry so they were the same and hoping that would work. 

The gearing proved elegant using a z56 turntable. 

The station is a modified elevator platform with 4 wheel drive which powers the rotation. A second ring of banana gears rotates with the platform to deliver power to the rotation assembly. 

I expect I will have issues with, 
1. timing gates and there mechanical link
2. inconsistent entry and exit times and positions causing trains to be stuck entering stations
3. inability to construct a reliable entry and exit ramp
4. developing a mechanism which releases the trains from there stations at the right moment

Hopefully the test build yields good results. 

Bellow is a link to some pictures of my progress. 
Link to pics

Thoughts?

Thanks 
Jude

Edited July 12, 2024 by Jude The Lego Dude
Progress updated

[Berthil]

In principle the wheel is a passing unit where the trains cannot collide and have to wait for each other if two trains are used. My double functioning passing unit works that way but I imagine it will be difficult to use that mechanism in the Falkirk wheel.

I expect with two trains, one train will empty in the rotary dumper but that train has to wait until the bottom train is back with marbles. Depending on what the other train receiving the marbles is doing, it could take quite some time and the train on top is idling a lot waiting for the other train to be back.

Why don't you make it easier on yourself and just use a counterweight instead of a second train or start with that setup to get it working? With a second train the filling process must be quite fast or a third train must be added. With one train in the 'Falkirk' wheel you have more control over balancing the train action with the position of the passing station.

[Jude The Lego Dude]

2 hours ago, Berthil said:

In principle the wheel is a passing unit where the trains cannot collide and have to wait for each other if two trains are used. My double functioning passing unit works that way but I imagine it will be difficult to use that mechanism in the Falkirk wheel.

I expect with two trains, one train will empty in the rotary dumper but that train has to wait until the bottom train is back with marbles. Depending on what the other train receiving the marbles is doing, it could take quite some time and the train on top is idling a lot waiting for the other train to be back.

Why don't you make it easier on yourself and just use a counterweight instead of a second train or start with that setup to get it working? With a second train the filling process must be quite fast or a third train must be added. With one train in the 'Falkirk' wheel you have more control over balancing the train action with the position of the passing station.

Having a single train would significantly simplify the process, I will consider it if I struggle with this too much or if I give up with the duel trains. 

Also I dont think I explained this well, but I do not desire to have the passing unit station be inside the Falkirk wheel, rather have it on the not rotating platforms outside. This simplifies things and means that I can probably develop a liftarm based linkage to connect the 8 tooth gear and gear rack trigger assembly. 

Also regarding throughput (or train sitting idile), im not too concerned as of yet, im really just trying to develop another unit for the system, and if that means I have to have another train and passing unit, thats fine for me. In the future the raised section may be elongated to increase time use, unsure as of yet. 

Thanks for your thoughts, I will ponder. 
 

[Seo-onDaddy]

On 5/21/2024 at 2:27 AM, Berthil said:

I run my trains with M motor and rechargeable PF battery at 7 day events. The trains running the Rotary Dumper and Crane Loader run for 4 hours before they need recharging, the trains with the lighter running modules sometimes a full event day.

Hello, I'm active in South Korea, and I'll be making and exhibiting GBC soon.

I will operate 4 trains, and I can't afford to charge them during the exhibition, so I will use AA batteries.

However, after testing it, it seems that the train will not be able to be maintained for a long time.

I'm plan to run for a total of 12 hours, 6 hours for 2 days.

I thought of some ways to keep the train for a long time.

1. Two 9V rectangular batteries (6LF22) are connected in parallel in the battery box.
It has the advantage of increasing operation time by connecting two batteries in parallel and easy battery replacement.

2. 2. Use 2-cell lithium polymer battery (1500 mAh)
need to have extra batteries ready to buy some charging time.

Having a plan like this, is it worth implementing?
Or is it okay to just use AA batteries?

And do you use lubricating oil in your gears?
Will the use of lubricating oil help increase operating time?

I'm a fan of yours, and I've been exhibiting your and Akiyuki's works at Korean exhibitions for the past two years.

I'd appreciate it if you could answer.

[Berthil]

@Seo-onDaddy Why don't you use Lithium PowerFunctions lookalikes/clones like the CADA Lithium ion battery box (500 mAh, 7.4V)? It has half the capacity of the LEGO PF 8878 but with the rotary dumper and crane loader it should last 2 hours and is also lighter than batteries. I'm not sure if you can use it without the remote though as I use PF 8878. Mould King also has a Lithium battery box. LEGO PF is discontinued and for GBC it is okay to use 3rd party components to keep the GBCs going. You can also charge the batteries while in the train so you don't have to take the trains apart every time. I have four trains and when fully charged at the start of the day they will last an event day of 7 hours.

If you can't get them I would alter a cheap LEGO standard battery box and put the 2-cell lithium polymer battery (1500 mAh) in as you suggest. 1500mAh will not be enough for a full event day with the Rotary Dumper and Crane loader but just a few hours short.

Also take some spare motors with you. The M-motor doesn't like to be switched every time and lasts about 50 hours in my trains. Also there it is okay to use 3rd party like Mould King.

I use dry Teflon PTFE to lubricate. I don't spray on the LEGO parts but use a small brush to apply the teflon where needed and spray in a cup first. I also lubricate the liftarms/beams where the train is dragged over and the underside of the train but it must be cleaned and re-applied before a show. All small things helps battery life.

Good luck with your show and post a video here to show your setup. 

  

[Seo-onDaddy]

On 7/16/2024 at 7:30 PM, Berthil said:

@Seo-onDaddy Why don't you use Lithium PowerFunctions lookalikes/clones like the CADA Lithium ion battery box (500 mAh, 7.4V)? It has half the capacity of the LEGO PF 8878 but with the rotary dumper and crane loader it should last 2 hours and is also lighter than batteries. I'm not sure if you can use it without the remote though as I use PF 8878. Mould King also has a Lithium battery box. LEGO PF is discontinued and for GBC it is okay to use 3rd party components to keep the GBCs going. You can also charge the batteries while in the train so you don't have to take the trains apart every time. I have four trains and when fully charged at the start of the day they will last an event day of 7 hours.

If you can't get them I would alter a cheap LEGO standard battery box and put the 2-cell lithium polymer battery (1500 mAh) in as you suggest. 1500mAh will not be enough for a full event day with the Rotary Dumper and Crane loader but just a few hours short.

Also take some spare motors with you. The M-motor doesn't like to be switched every time and lasts about 50 hours in my trains. Also there it is okay to use 3rd party like Mould King.

I use dry Teflon PTFE to lubricate. I don't spray on the LEGO parts but use a small brush to apply the teflon where needed and spray in a cup first. I also lubricate the liftarms/beams where the train is dragged over and the underside of the train but it must be cleaned and re-applied before a show. All small things helps battery life.

Good luck with your show and post a video here to show your setup. 

  

Thank you very much for your kind reply.
There are very few people who run GBC in Korea. I've been in the Lego community for over a decade, but I haven't met anyone who can talk about GBC.

I've been using CADA or mouldking battery boxes for a long time, but due to the nature of the exhibition, you should use LEGO's parts if possible. And, CADA or mouldking only works by using the remote control. Of course, you can pair more than four battery boxes with the app and lock them to operate without manipulation, but I don't want to complicate it.

As you advised, it would be better to use a 1500mAh lithium polymer battery.

I will also keep in mind your advice to prepare more m-motors.

As for the lubricant, I use 3M's silicone rubricant.
If you look at other people's videos, the GBC works smoothly, and no matter how well you assemble it, it's not easy to operate smoothly without the help of lubricant.

So I've always wondered if others use lubricants.
I will try to use the dry Teflon lubricant you told me.

[Fyredog]

@Berthil

Have you tried replacing the batteries in the Lego 8878?  Are you still using genuine Lego 8878 or have you moved to aftermarket? I always enjoy admiring your work. Have you built the Akiuki Pneumatic module?  Curious about your thoughts on that one.  I'm currently trying to master both the pneumatic module,  train cars and un-loader - all Akiuki designs.

[Berthil]

@Fyredog I'm still using original 8878 batteries, they are holding up very well. I also have spares from LEGO.com when they were available at discount during phase out. I haven't build the pneumatic Akiyuki module but other pneumatic modules. Mostly they don't last 7 event days during LEGO World, the cilinders tend to fail.

[Jude The Lego Dude]

5 hours ago, Fyredog said:

@Berthil

Have you tried replacing the batteries in the Lego 8878?  Are you still using genuine Lego 8878 or have you moved to aftermarket? I always enjoy admiring your work. Have you built the Akiuki Pneumatic module?  Curious about your thoughts on that one.  I'm currently trying to master both the pneumatic module,  train cars and un-loader - all Akiuki designs.

 

57 minutes ago, Berthil said:

@Fyredog I'm still using original 8878 batteries, they are holding up very well. I also have spares from LEGO.com when they were available at discount during phase out. I haven't build the pneumatic Akiyuki module but other pneumatic modules. Mostly they don't last 7 event days during LEGO World, the cilinders tend to fail.

Regarding Pneumatic module. (this question may be suited for the Akiyuki project)
I have built it and run it for over 10 show days before replacing any of the moving parts. These parts where initially lubricated with some silicone oil, and I didnt have any issues at all. I think the parts could have gone for longer, but I didnt want it to be a hassle at my latest show so I changed out the parts. It is a bit of a its definitely a public favorite. 
The trick is low speed operation, run more pumps in parallel at less speed.