LEGO Revival: Discussion

[Mister Phes]

If you haven't taken the LEGO revival survey yet please take 10-15 minutes to do so now. Click Here Thank you!

That's a very nice essay you've written but I feel the need to ask questions about so I respond appropriately. I don't mean to pick it to pieces, but if this information is going to presented to LEGO then we need to have our facts straight!

Today LEGO has the best customer relations it has ever had

In recent times we've discussed that LEGO has poor communications with its customers hence why there is a need for a thread like this! So what makes you say this?

LEGO quality simply allows parts to be maintained in wonderful condition for lifetimes. No other toy company can boast of such.

This sounds like a hyberbole - can you prove this?

LEGO was the undisputed construction toy ever. Today, so many look alike brands and copycat systems are available at lower costs that LEGO is having trouble competing regardless at times of quality

Is this really true? And if true, are the competitors really the cause of this? I've got bricks from 3 different LEGO-look-alike type brands that are almost 20 years old. Copy cat manfucaturers aren't a new thing like many may think. It just appears they've been brought to our attention more now we have Internet and greater mass media coverage.

Admiral Giddens or anyone who will get our thoughts into the hands of TLG.

Has Admiral Giddens agreed to do this? It would be a shame if we wrote our ideas and then he said LEGO would not be able to see them.

Having got that out of the way - this seems like a very good idea! It would be great to know that LEGO is hearing our opinions and suggestions

[SuvieD]

To keep non-answers breif I will just say that LEGO was voted toy of the century for a reason. LEGO has had more contact, set up a website, started the ambassador program and produced 4 fan made sets all in the last few years. If that proof of a better relationship than nothing is. LEGO's market share in construction toys (US at least) is much less than it used to be. There simply is more flashy competition than before. If Mr. Giddens will not I will write an email to Jake McKee politely asking that he would help with this. If this will not work I have a contingent backup plan I can not mention.

I will answer it the way I was invisioning. Thank you everyone at Eurobricks for your participation!

[Akkhraziel]

Don not consider this a reply to the questions at the top of the page, but instead a response to the answers people have given.

After seeing this more than once, I think it needs mentioning: Manufacturing costs more now than it did 15 years ago. Its why piece counts have steadily declined, yet the price point of the sets has more or less stayed the same. Better to give you a hollow BURP which takes a lot less plastic than to give you all the bricks to make said rock structure. A cross between an increas in petrochemical costs as well as a few other factors. And no, its not just Lego, it applies to a lot of toys. It costs more to re-issue a toy jet from the 80's than it did to make it the first time. Its why the piece count has gone down and hollow piece's and strange peices have been coming up. Lego has decided to attempt to hold on to certain price points and thus changed internally to attempt to manage the rising costs of manufacturing.

Additionally:While you might not like Junior sets, it does perhaps sell well to an age group well below ours, and a group that might one day become Lego fans. I'd be interested to see what the numbers on the junior sets run, and how they've sold.

In reference to "Bring Back Old Themes": Be more specific. Are you looking for a re-issue of more of the classic sets ? Are you looking for them to design all new sets based on the themes ?

Also, to put my opinion in, as much as I'm starting to get interested in pirates, I think right now would be the worst possible time for Lego to try to launch a new pirates line. Maybe after Meg Bloks Pyrates line leaves the shelves, but not at the same time. The fact that Lego is more expensive and would be selling a similiar product would create a situation ripe for disaster.

Also, remember that they also gets lots of pleas for a return of classic space and things like that...I'm not all together certain that this letter will do a great deal of good. :/

In any event, just some things to think about. While we all have our preferences and our wants, most of them are very self-centered on our particular collections and not very helpful to a company trying to figure out policy.

Akkh

[Hobbes]

While we all have our preferences and our wants, most of them are very self-centered on our particular collections and not very helpful to a company trying to figure out policy.

Good post and the reason why I haven't answered yet - and won't (no offense to the thread starter!). I've given it thought, lots of it, but couldn't come up with impartial enough answers. Of course, everybody has their favorites, but if this is going to TLC (or TLG - which is correct, btw?) it shouldn't be too subjective and my answers would have been.

Basically I agree with 95 % of above answers...

[Mister Phes]

In any event, just some things to think about. While we all have our preferences and our wants, most of them are very self-centered on our particular collections and not very helpful to a company trying to figure out policy.

And mine is the most self centred of them all!

Akkhraziel has raised a very good point. However, we should be able to share our thoughts without restriction. The questions asks us what we think, not how we can assist LEGO improve its policies. Its hard not to be self centred the way the questions phrased, like "In what way has the LEGO brand let you down?". They're written in second person which prompts a first person response.

But, lets look at what they all have in common:

• Less "juniorisation" or specialised, and oversized pieces in sets.
  
• Increased number of generic pieces in sets.
  
• Create better sets designs, or rephrased "put more thought into designing sets"
  
• Not so many colours, especially the "Tele Tubbie" colours as Bloody Jay puts it.
  
• More mini-figures.
  
• No more licencing or movie ties, with Star Wars as the exception perhaps.
  

But as for this statement:

Also, to put my opinion in, as much as I'm starting to get interested in pirates, I think right now would be the worst possible time for Lego to try to launch a new pirates line. Maybe after Meg Bloks Pyrates line leaves the shelves, but not at the same time. The fact that Lego is more expensive and would be selling a similiar product would create a situation ripe for disaster.

It seems you believe MegaBloks Pyrates is going to be a success beyond all believe and LEGO doesn't stand a chance of competing. I must dispute this because the MegaBlok Pyrate sets look more like play sets than actual construction toys - they appear to have less connectivity and constructability than Duplo sets (We've covered this more thoroughly in the thread in which you brought them to our attention).

Also the prices are rather comparable... The latest Pirate ship 7070 Captain Redbeard's Pirate Ship costs US$40 while the two Pyrate ships cost US$35-US$45 and US$50-US$60.

Also of note other construction toy brands such as BestBlok and Coko have Pirate sets, but that's not preventing MegaBloks from getting in on the act. MegaBloks already have a Castle like theme that doesn't seem to effect Knights Kingdom. Besides, these Pyrate sets resemble PlayMobil (and similiar brands) products closer than the 4+ Pirates theme, and if LEGO was to release the kind of SYSTEM theme we're demanding, it would almost be a completely different product.

I don't think I need to juxtapose a SYSTEM Pirate set against a MegaBlok Pyrates set so we can see how different they are...

8-)

[The Middleman]

I took the liberty of splitting the topic so that the other thread is solely for answers.

[SuvieD]

Thank you kindly! As far as others posts, I hope there is nothing short of emergency that will keep any of you from answering. I honestly will not be bothered by anyones answers if they are appropriate and honest. Everyone has opinions. I just ask that you share yours to the possible betterment of both our community and to TLG itself.

[The Middleman]

SuvieD, has LEGO agreed to read this or something? If so, we might be able to put it on the front page.

[snefroe]

TLC (or TLG - which is correct, btw?)

its TLG, The Lego Group; we're all just writing TLC. it's a bad habit...

[Orlego]

TLC (or TLG - which is correct, btw?)

its TLG, The Lego Group; we're all just writing TLC. it's a bad habit...

In America, our employee newsletter has listed it as TLC several times. If you go to Lego.com you will notice "

[Mister Phes]

I took the liberty of splitting the topic so that the other thread is solely for answers.

I was gonna do this if the discussion continued! You're not reading you mind are you Blooy Jay?

SuvieD, has LEGO agreed to read this or something? If so, we might be able to put it on the front page.

He did originally say that Admiral Giddens was going to pass it over to them, but it appears he's revised that...

This survey will run from now until August 1st. I will be creating an excel file with peoples answers and will have it completed by August 5th at which time we turn it over to someone to get it into the hands of those at LEGO.

[Akkhraziel]

It seems you believe MegaBloks Pyrates is going to be a success beyond all believe and LEGO doesn't stand a chance of competing.

There is a difference in can't compete and should not compete. I covered this in more (lengthy) detail in the Mega Bloks Pyrates line discussion. But there are also a few other things to consider:

What you want in a pirates line and what we are likely to get are two very different things. I know I'm probably not the only one that noticed when they reissued the classics, we got the ones that had falling over masts and the like....

Would pirates be as enjoyable if it got the same treatement that Knights Kingdom (the first seris) did ? With lots of individual characterizations and potientially strangely colored pirates...with real firing cannons (the big spring action ones so popular as of late) and battle damage ships ?

As the above is probably more likely than a return to the golden age of pirates...becasue kids now need a lot of help in the imagination department. Its also would be what they would try in order to 'compete' with their competitors...

Better, I think, for Lego to instead put creative thought eslewhere then come back to pirates when the market is less cluttered.

Or at least time it with the release of the Pirates of the Carribean sequals, one of the two.

Akkh

[Akkhraziel]

A few other thoughts on this Revival survey:

In the end, in its current format, it looks more like a fan whine/wish list than anything a corporation would take seriously. If its not going to be taken to the AFOL meeting, I'd seriously consider what you plan to do with it, Suvie. That you comment that you will do something with it you can't reveal at this time only makes me tilt my head in curiousity and confusion. Sending it to Lego will probably only result in it being treated as yet another piece of fan mail... While you intentions might be good, Suvie, at the moment it comes across that you don't have much direction for where this is going, or much of a clue with what to do with it once you've gotten it.

I think what I'm getting at is that this is not the best method, or presentation, for getting your point of view across. Additionally, you give few genuine recommendations on what can be done to help meet what you are wanting.

Remember: Castle fans lobbied long and hard for the return of Castle. Then they refused to buy a single KK set becasue it wasn't Castle to them. I sincerely doubt TLG has a lot of intrest in hearing fan opinion on many things...simply becasue fandoms are small vocal minorities who can't agree on what they want. In the end, no matter how perfectly a set is designed, there is someone, somewhere, who won't like it and be very vocal about it.

Thats enough on that for now...though I may return to this theme later.

Akkh

[Mister Phes]

There is a difference in can't compete and should not compete. I covered this in more (lengthy)  detail in the Mega Bloks Pyrates line discussion. But there are also a few other things to consider:

Akkhraziel, you seem like a quite knowledgable fellow. Where did you gain this knowledge from?

What you want in a pirates line and what we are likely to get are two very different things. I know I'm probably not the only one that noticed when they reissued the classics, we got the ones that had falling over masts and the like....

I had no problem with these sets and I'm glad they were released. The 6280 Armada Flag Ship and Red Beard Runner were quite popular and I was pressed to find a good deal on them. So I had to pay full price. But I managed to get one 6280 for about half price out of luck.

However, these weren't classics, they were just re-releases. It was the 6265/10040 Black Seas Barracuda that was advertised as the "LEGO Legend" after it was voted most popular LEGO set of all time that fans would like see return. You're probably well aware that you're going to be pressed to get one of these suckers MISB for under US$200 now.

And the added bonus is they've provided more Pirate elements for the second hand market.

Would pirates be as enjoyable if it got the same treatement that Knights Kingdom (the first seris) did ? With lots of individual characterizations and potientially strangely colored pirates...with real firing cannons (the big spring action ones so popular as of late) and battle damage ships ?

They've already done this. Its called 4+ Pirates released in 2004. You might have heard some of us groaning about this...

Learn all about the characters and sets here...

As the above is probably more likely than a return to the golden age of pirates...becasue kids now need a lot of help in the imagination department.  Its also would be what they would try in order to 'compete' with their competitors...

I like to say kiddies are stupid for the fun of it, but do they really need a lot of help in the imagination department? Or are they just denied the opportunity to use their imaginations?

Take a look at the What do young kiddies think of the 4+ sets? thread for some 4 years olds opinion on the recent Pirate LEGO aimed towards them. I watch my nephew play with my SYSTEM Pirate sets, then his 4+ Sets. He never says look what Captain Cragg is about to do. The names are irrelevant. These individualised 4+ characters are just Pirates to him... Why LEGO bothered to name seems pointless now.

Better, I think, for Lego to instead put creative thought elsewhere then come back to pirates when the market is less cluttered.

Or at least time it with the release of the Pirates of the Carribean sequals, one of the two.

And from the other thread:

But, if operating with the notion that Lego has to make solid, perfect business plans, then the route to better profit lies where there is little to no competition. In that way, there is no confusion, and no one settling for a lesser product becasue its a bit cheaper. It would be on lego, then to make something truly memorable and created its own niche, hopefully without licensing.

Unfortunately you've got a good point about waiting for little or no competition... But you're not taking into account that LEGO has Pirate LEGO on toy & department store shelves right this very minute. (I've emphasised this because many don't seem to realise this) LEGO is currently competing on the Pirate construction toy market despite all these other products.

Pirates of the Caribbean sequels are due for release next year and the year after and the market has been cluttered for a couple of years now. It'll probably be cluttered for a couple more, but if we want to influence LEGO to release Pirate then we've got to start hassling them now. Otherwise they might not take advantage of the uncluttered market.

[Akkhraziel]

Akkhraziel, you seem like a quite knowledgable fellow. Where did you gain this knowledge from?

:$

I guess we could blame my university instructors...I'm sure they'd like that.

Like I alluded to in the other thread, I've collected other toylines and I've learned to market watch. While I'd really like for more Pirate Lego right now, I also want TLG to be able to do so under the best circumstances with the best possible results for them.

And as for the rest, I've participated in several petitions and company feedback loops. When you condense information and/or are specific, it helps when trying to communicate with companies. After all "I want more pirates" could mean "I want a new pirate theme" or "I'd like more pirate re-releases" or even "I want a new pirate theme, but please no power ranger pirates."

At the very least, I've been on the receiveing end of "But thats what you asked for" from a toy company before, or "Well, htis is what you asked for, why aren't you buying it."

Akkh

[Mister Phes]

At the moment I'm just writing down whatever comes to mind. A lot of it is extraneous babble that needs editing. But I've attempted to be very specific in regards to what I want in another SYSTEM Pirate theme and have gone to great length to describe my expectations.

But you're right. I'm whining about my wish list, which LEGO probably won't find very heplful anyway. I don't care. They should do what I say. I know everything! However, it is good to vent frustrations and know you're not alone.

LEGO did officially conduct a survey directed at AFOLs in regards to what direction the AFOLs wanted to see LEGO take in the future. Were you around back then to read the survey responses?

[Akkhraziel]

LEGO did officially conduct a servey directed at AFOLs in regards to what direction the AFOLs wanted to see LEGO take in the future. Were you around back then to read those responses?

I think so.

In any event, I'm looking forward to wht the future might bring. And while I'm at it, looking at grabbing a few great sets off the second hand market.

Akkh

[SuvieD]

In the end, in its current format, it looks more like a fan whine/wish list than anything a corporation would take seriously. If its not going to be taken to the AFOL meeting, I'd seriously consider what you plan to do with it, Suvie. That you comment that you will do something with it you can't reveal at this time only makes me tilt my head in curiousity and confusion. Sending it to Lego will probably only result in it being treated as yet another piece of fan mail... While you intentions might be good, Suvie, at the moment it comes across that you don't have much direction for where this is going, or much of a clue with what to do with it once you've gotten it.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If this to you is a whine list then so be it. I am not a fan of wasting my time or others time and as such I feel this, when finished, will not only be valuable free research for TLG but also a good indication of what the members of Eurobricks are looking to see. I will do everything that I can to make sure that someone with some authority working for/with LEGO gets this to them. This is all going into an excel file that can be easily sent to any person on the planet with a windows installed PC. I am sorry you don't want to help. I am sorry you think this is going nowhere. If all I do with this is send something that never gets looked at by anyone what have I lost? 15 minutes of time maybe? If I never bother to do this and send it what will I ever see of my/Eurobricks members concerns? Nothing! That to me is sad. To think I can do something right now and that I won't because I feel I am defeated before I start. On the other hand, if this is looked at and considered wouldn't we all have a reason to be happy about better sets with less specialized part and more minifigures. If LEGO wants my continued business then my opinion matters just like everyone who feels LEGO ought to improve. I seriously do not want a focus group of five-year-olds determining whether I get an ancient Greece theme or KK13. If I can I will make a difference. If you want to help that is your decision. The more responses to this the more seriously it will be taken. If half the members here feel as you do, then yes, it will probably fail but not because I didn't try. I hope people will want to help make a change also. Thank you to those who already have.

. . . but it is not this day. This day we fight! *sing* I feel like I am on a soap box :$

[Mister Phes]

Here's a link to The responses of the Official LEGO Survey on LUGNet for anybody who wants to read them.

Bare in mind this survey had a limit of 500 responses and that limit was reached within about 18 hours... 500 didn't seem much at the time but Suvie D's surveys is gonna need a lot more responses if its to have as much impact as that one...

Perhaps SuvieD should unite all the other LEGO messageboards and ask their members to participate...

[Akkhraziel]

Thanks for posting that link, Mister Phes.

Suvie:

While I'll admit my last post came across more skeptical than usual, something I do think would help would be to adopt something like that survey that mister phes linked for us, or to narrow the focus of intended letter so that a clear message is sent. Something along the lines of "More minifgs" or "Less speicalized parts"...something that everyone can get behind and does not have numerous interpetations. The more clear a message can be sent, the better. Scattered light helps illuminate a room, but a focused beam gets people's atention. Or something like that.

Akkh

[SuvieD]

That is exactly my goal. Just not yet. ;)

I myself am registered at Lugnet and CC. I will try to find people from the other forums to post a topic for me and I may even put some impressive mocs or battlescenes on brickshelf with small adds for it on the bottom. That is I might do all of these things. Problem is if I can't get support for it here I may not continue to pursue it. Though it is more likely that I will be overly stubborn as usual and stick with it to it's dying end.

Please don't post anywhere else yet though. I am waiting for a PM with some information in it first. If all goes well I will rewrite the openning statement to be more direct and brief.

500 answers is ambitious but I think it is achievable.

I will look into having people condense and be more precise with their answers soon.

[Mister Phes]

Earlier I summarised the similiarities between all the results thus far:

These were:

• Less "juniorisation" or specialised, and oversized pieces in sets.
  
• Increased number of generic pieces in sets.
  
• Create better sets designs, or rephrased "put more thought into designing sets"
  
• Not so many colours, especially the "Tele Tubbie" colours as Bloody Jay puts it.
  
• More mini-figures.
  
• No more licencing or movie ties, with Star Wars as the exception perhaps.
  

[The Middleman]

Earlier I summarised the similiarities between all the results thus far:

These were:

• Less "juniorisation" or specialised, and oversized pieces in sets.
  
• Increased number of generic pieces in sets.
  
• Create better sets designs, or rephrased "put more thought into designing sets"
  
• Not so many colours, especially the "Tele Tubbie" colours as Bloody Jay puts it.
  
• More mini-figures.
  
• No more licencing or movie ties, with Star Wars as the exception perhaps.
  

I don't know, I think Harry Potter is good... it gets them to put out pieces they'd never put out otherwise.

[Mister Phes]

What pieces are these? Are they of any use outside the Harry Potter theme?

[The Middleman]

What pieces are these? Are they of any use outside the Harry Potter theme?

One of my favorite pieces for statues... http://peeron.com/inv/parts/48284

The only real purple parts-pack ever... http://peeron.com/inv/sets/4755-1?showpic=678

Large clock... http://peeron.com/inv/parts/45729px4

The numerous keys included in sets, of course... the tons of sloped sand green pieces that are great for rooftops, not to mention the various turrets in sand green... the rare gate pieces... and of course, many printed normal pieces, like a cash register, a sock, etc. Basically, miscellaneous useful pieces that have either been elusive or never released at all.